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Thread: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

  1. #511
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    It's not about permission. One genjutsu and Naruto will be knocked out. he won't be able to think and act fast enough to break himself free. That's exactly what happen to Kirabi, which is why the Hachibi had to step in and mess with his chakra. But since the Kyuubi is locked away where it can't effect Naruto's chakra, Naruto won't be able to break it..
    Again, stop understimating naruto.. Naruto knows how the genjutsu works, How come naruto won't be able to think that he's in genjutsu.? and how come he can't act fast enough to break himself free.? With that logic, naruto is still stupid just like before if he haven't knows he was in genjutsu and he's still stupid just like before if he can't used his brain that his RM is the best way to disrupt his chakra.

    What the heck, im just wondering what hachibi did in order to freed bee from genjutsu.? Does he just used his chakra to disrupt bee's chakra or he step in and mess bee's chakra using his 8 legs..?

    Hachibi simply used his chakra to disrupt bee's chakra.. So naruto can used his RM to used the kyubi's chakra to disrupt his chakra.. as simple as that..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Once paralyzed, Naruto won't be able to do anything. That's the whole point of the Sharingan genjutsu, that it strikes and takes effect before the target can free themselves. Just look at what happen to Kakashi, Orochimaru, and Shi. Once the genjutsu hits Naruto, he'll be taken out and unable to do a thing. This is especially true hen Naruto may end up not even knowing he's ion a genjutsu. Both times Itachi used a genjutsu on him, Naruto didn't realize it until it was far too late. There's would be no way for Naruto to tell he's in a genjutsu if it's used right. .
    Sigh.. is that what you think about naruto..? poor naruto.. He can't do a thing to the sharingan genjutsu.

    Ofcourse he can, naruto right now is not what you think about him, he's no longer a stupid and no brain ninja..

    NAruto realize immediately that he was caught by itachi's genjutsu.

    How come naruto can't do a thing when he was caught by genjutsu.? He can used his RM to dispel the genjutsu.. Thats not so hard for naruto to do.. Naruto knows how the genjutsu works. Naruto is different from oro, kakashi and shi, NARUTO HAS TWO KINDS OF CHAKRA.. Naruto can used his RM in an instant.. meaning he can used the kyubi's chakra in an instant to dispel/disrupt him from genjutsu..

    If naruto will be caught by genjutsu in his normal form, it was his chakra that flows in irregular, so he can used the RM to used the kyubi's chakra.. So what happen to the genjutsu in his normal form.? does it transfer to the kyubi's chakra.? MAybe your forgetting something that when someone will be caught by genjutsu, you can still mold your chakra from/in the genjutsu world.. just like naruto did in itachi's genjutsu.. so naruto can used his super saiyan mode to change his chakra into kyubi's chakra.. so goodbye sharingan's genjutsu..

    when naruto is in RM, he used the kyubi's chakra, so im just wondering what happen to his own chakra..? does he have some kind of storage room too for his chakra just like for the kyubi's chakra..?

    The genjutsu or uchiha genjutsu is useless to anyone who has two diffirent kinds of crapload chakra..


    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    I was just bringing to light what it sounded like you were implying: that the rules of escaping Genjutsu just stopped applying thanks to Naruto having "alot of chakra" (which is something he's had since the beginning of the series). It didn't work back in the day, so I was curious as to why now it made any difference.

    I expected to hear why having more chakra would make Naruto not need to disrupt his chakra to escape Genjutsu, and I'm sure that argument's gonna come up again if Naruto reaches a Genjutsu using opponent in the tournament. Adressing it now would save me a headache if we don't luck out and find out soon in the pages of the manga.
    HAving more chakra or "alot of chakra"is different from having TWO kinds of large pool chakra..

    Kisame, who has a large pool of chakra can't escape from genjutsu..

    But naruto, who has also a large pool of chakra and the kyubi's chakra can escape from genjutsu.. just like bee..
    Last edited by bhasty; May 17, 2011 at 12:20 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty
    The genjutsu or uchiha genjutsu is useless to anyone who has two diffirent kinds of crapload chakra..

    Again, that's not something you can prove until it's shown. Bee was able to get out of Tsukiyomi because Hachibi was free to disrupt Bee's chakra. Kyuubi isn't free to do anything at all inside of Naruto's body (save for complain, lol), meaning he's incapable of performing the same feat until he and Naruto come to an understanding and Naruto can trust him to act on his own.

    And I know what you're thinking: "Naruto has so much chakra that just focusing it and reaching the Kyuubi chakra will bust him out!" No, no, that won't work either because he already was capable of controlling up to 3 tails when the 30% Itachi clone had him subdued by a Genjutsu, and he never got out of it, no matter how hard he tried. If 3 tails worth of Kyuubi chakra couldn't break a Genjutsu that wasn't even cast by the Sharingan (and came from a 30% clone mind you), what hope does Naruto have against Tsukiyomi from a full powered Itachi?

    Naruto may reach the point where he's capable of pulling off Bee's feat, but if he doesn't by the time he gets a match with anyone at all with any distinct Genjutsu expertise, then he won't be hopping out of it as quickly as Bee did in any of his tournament matches. He'll have to avoid it with bunshin, and that's pretty much his only defense.

    EDIT: Oh yeah, final nail in the coffin: If having access to all the Kyuubi's chakra was all it took to escape Genjutsu, why was Madara capable of controlling it through Genjutsu? Wouldn't it's super huge chakra reserve allow it to power through?
    Last edited by ninjabot; May 17, 2011 at 12:35 AM.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Naruto himself said that Kyuubi's chakra is stored in some other place inside his body and that he manually needs to pull into it in order to get it's power.

    When Naruto will be genjutsu'd, he will not be able to go and get access to Kyuubi's chakra.

    Unless when Rikudou mode is active and that it somehow brings magically some genjutsu immunity / chakra distruption, Naruto has to deal with genjutsu by normal means, which means having amazing chakra control which he hasnt shown to have until now.

    And as it was said, it's not about having a lot of chakra, but having a different source of chakra coming into play to snap you out of it.

    Bee has 2 source of chakra, his own and his Bijuu, there is TWO minds involved.

    Naruto being genjutsu'd can only be saved by himself, Kyuubi is caged ant kept at bay, unlike Hachibi who can act 'freely'


    As for Naruto making clones to protect himself, it could work, but avoiding eye contact as well as 'fingers' in Itachi's case can be troublesome, and will put him at 'deadly' risk when facing Mangekyo users.... and yet he's been trapped in genjutsu before he could even make a single move, and that is with the knowledge about Itachi being able to cast genjutsu with both his Sharingan and fingers....

    Naruto is bound to get caught by genjutsu, it's up to him to have a talk with Kyuubi to somehow have Kyuubi come into play if Sasuke is the one using Tsukuyomi and it's up to Naruto to avoid eye contact at all cost to make sure he doesnt get caught by Itachi's Tsukuyomi or it's pretty much game over.
    Last edited by insid3rkill3r; May 17, 2011 at 01:18 AM.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Bee was only able to get out of genjutsu because he had a partner. He said so himself.

    Of course the posibility exists that Naruto can brake genjutsu with Kyuubi chakra or sage mode (by absorbing more chakra) but untill Kishi shows it to be so we can't use it.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Again, stop understimating naruto.. Naruto knows how the genjutsu works, How come naruto won't be able to think that he's in genjutsu.? and how come he can't act fast enough to break himself free.? With that logic, naruto is still stupid just like before if he haven't knows he was in genjutsu and he's still stupid just like before if he can't used his brain that his RM is the best way to disrupt his chakra.

    What the heck, im just wondering what hachibi did in order to freed bee from genjutsu.? Does he just used his chakra to disrupt bee's chakra or he step in and mess bee's chakra using his 8 legs..?

    Hachibi simply used his chakra to disrupt bee's chakra.. So naruto can used his RM to used the kyubi's chakra to disrupt his chakra.. as simple as that..
    It's far from underestimation. We have seen Naruto trapped in two genjutsus without him realizing anything was up until it was too late. Naruto would have no way to tell if he's put into a normal looking genjutsu. The same with a paralyzing genjutsu, which would prevent Naruto from acting or doing anything to save himself. That's the thing you seem to be missing. A paralyzing genjutsu prevents the target from doing anything, including messing with their chakra to break themselves out. Thus the reason Kirabi needed his "partner" to do it for him, even though he recognized that he was in a genjutsu. The same thing with Kakashi, Orochimaru, and Shi. so Naruto attempting to use the Kyuubi's chakra to break himself out likely wouldn't be possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Sigh.. is that what you think about naruto..? poor naruto.. He can't do a thing to the sharingan genjutsu.

    Ofcourse he can, naruto right now is not what you think about him, he's no longer a stupid and no brain ninja..

    NAruto realize immediately that he was caught by itachi's genjutsu.

    How come naruto can't do a thing when he was caught by genjutsu.? He can used his RM to dispel the genjutsu.. Thats not so hard for naruto to do.. Naruto knows how the genjutsu works. Naruto is different from oro, kakashi and shi, NARUTO HAS TWO KINDS OF CHAKRA.. Naruto can used his RM in an instant.. meaning he can used the kyubi's chakra in an instant to dispel/disrupt him from genjutsu..

    If naruto will be caught by genjutsu in his normal form, it was his chakra that flows in irregular, so he can used the RM to used the kyubi's chakra.. So what happen to the genjutsu in his normal form.? does it transfer to the kyubi's chakra.? MAybe your forgetting something that when someone will be caught by genjutsu, you can still mold your chakra from/in the genjutsu world.. just like naruto did in itachi's genjutsu.. so naruto can used his super saiyan mode to change his chakra into kyubi's chakra.. so goodbye sharingan's genjutsu..

    when naruto is in RM, he used the kyubi's chakra, so im just wondering what happen to his own chakra..? does he have some kind of storage room too for his chakra just like for the kyubi's chakra..?

    The genjutsu or uchiha genjutsu is useless to anyone who has two diffirent kinds of crapload chakra..
    Him and the majority of other people. We have specifically seen that it takes special abilities to counter a Sharingan genjutsu. It has nothing to do with Naruto's intelligences, since we have seen ninja much smart and with better skills in genjutsu be trapped just as easily. And Naruto didn't immediately figure out he was in Itachi's genjutsu. He didn't realize anything was up til the crows took the form of Itachi. Before that, he spend a while fighting against the illusions and even after learning the truth was unable to free himself, even though he had far more chakra then the Itachi clone.

    It doesn't matter that Naruto has access to the Kyuubi's chakra, since he still wouldn't be free to draw on it. That's my point. If we know that a person in the genjutsu can't even mess with their own chakra, then there would be no way that Naruto would be able to access the Kyuubi's chakra instead. And yeah, when Naruto is using the Kyuubi's chakra, his own chakra is being stored in the Kyuubi, thus the whole reason he's limited in using Rikudou form. So in which ever form Naruto is using, he'll only have access to a single source of chakra, thus susceptible to genjutsu.

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  7. #516
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    It's far from underestimation. We have seen Naruto trapped in two genjutsus without him realizing anything was up until it was too late. Naruto would have no way to tell if he's put into a normal looking genjutsu. The same with a paralyzing genjutsu, which would prevent Naruto from acting or doing anything to save himself. That's the thing you seem to be missing. A paralyzing genjutsu prevents the target from doing anything, including messing with their chakra to break themselves out. Thus the reason Kirabi needed his "partner" to do it for him, even though he recognized that he was in a genjutsu. The same thing with Kakashi, Orochimaru, and Shi. so Naruto attempting to use the Kyuubi's chakra to break himself out likely wouldn't be possible..
    Really..? then why the heck orochimaru can even moved his hand when he was caught by itachi's genjutsu.? Does naruto need his chakra to draw/used the kyubi's chakra.? ofcourse not.. even though naruto will be paralyzed by genjutsu, he can still used the kyubi's chakra.. He doesn't need to used a hand seal, all naruto needs to do is to used his thought or his brain to draw the kyubi's chakra..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Him and the majority of other people. We have specifically seen that it takes special abilities to counter a Sharingan genjutsu. It has nothing to do with Naruto's intelligences, since we have seen ninja much smart and with better skills in genjutsu be trapped just as easily. And Naruto didn't immediately figure out he was in Itachi's genjutsu. He didn't realize anything was up til the crows took the form of Itachi. Before that, he spend a while fighting against the illusions and even after learning the truth was unable to free himself, even though he had far more chakra then the Itachi clone..
    Spend a while..? naruto used his rasengan, then throw a kunai then the crows took form of itachi.. for me, it takes naruto a minute to do that..

    But naruto still trying to break free from itachi's genjutsu.. HE cancelled or stop his chakra flow to break free from genjutsu but still it's not enough.. and again, i've never stated that anyone who has a large pool of chakra can escape on genjutsu.. Right now, when naruto will be caught by genjutsu, he doesn't need to cancel or stop his chakra flow anymore to dispel a genjutsu, he just need to used his thought/brain to used the kyubi's chakra..

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Really..? then why the heck orochimaru can even moved his hand when he was caught by itachi's genjutsu.? Does naruto need his chakra to draw/used the kyubi's chakra.? ofcourse not.. even though naruto will be paralyzed by genjutsu, he can still used the kyubi's chakra.. He doesn't need to used a hand seal, all naruto needs to do is to used his thought or his brain to draw the kyubi's chakra..
    Orochimaru was fighting it and he still was having trouble. If being paralyzed by their genjutsu prevents them from using their own chakra, what makes you think Naruto could manage to use the Kyuubi's chakra.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Spend a while..? naruto used his rasengan, then throw a kunai then the crows took form of itachi.. for me, it takes naruto a minute to do that..

    But naruto still trying to break free from itachi's genjutsu.. HE cancelled or stop his chakra flow to break free from genjutsu but still it's not enough.. and again, i've never stated that anyone who has a large pool of chakra can escape on genjutsu.. Right now, when naruto will be caught by genjutsu, he doesn't need to cancel or stop his chakra flow anymore to dispel a genjutsu, he just need to used his thought/brain to used the kyubi's chakra..
    It was still a while. Later on, he didn't even realize he was in a genjutsu til Itachi specifically told him. What makes you think Naruto thinking would be as easy as messing up his own chakra? You're presuming he could do so with no trouble, which isn't really the case when a paralyzing genjutsu would knock him out moments later.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Really..? then why the heck orochimaru can even moved his hand when he was caught by itachi's genjutsu.?
    becuause unlike Naruto Orochimaru is skilled at genjutsu and capable of breaking high level ones with out help even them Itachi just ended the jutsu and sliced his hand off

    Naruto does not have the genjutsu skill or chakra control to break genjutsu
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    Thumbs Up Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    [QUOTE=bhasty;2447440]Really..? then why the heck orochimaru can even moved his hand when he was caught by itachi's genjutsu.?

    Because it was Itachi. The king of genjutsu

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    All of Ten-Ten's opponents are going to get trolled hard. lolz

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    We've moved on to the next fights!. Check the detailed results in the respective threads!

    In the top tier, Orochimaru and Hashirama blasted through their opponents, and in the low tier Suigetsu and Ten Ten secured a position for themselves in the next round.

    The new threads have been opened, let the discussion and voting commence! Enjoy!

    PS: Oro pawned!
    Last edited by benelori; May 17, 2011 at 04:59 PM.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Quote:
    NAruto realize immediately that he was caught by itachi's genjutsu.
    And could you please remind us of how he escaped from that genjutsu? IIRC, Sakura and Chiyo did it, not Naruto.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Orochimaru was fighting it and he still was having trouble. If being paralyzed by their genjutsu prevents them from using their own chakra, what makes you think Naruto could manage to use the Kyuubi's chakra..
    Does naruto's mind/brain will also be affected by genjutsu..? i think it's not.. Does naruto need any hand seal to use the kyubi's chakra.? I don't think so.. NAruto could manage to use the kyubi's chakra through his thought/mind/brain..

    Naruto can use the RM in exchange of his chakra.. His kyubi's chakra are in separate place inside of his body.. But it doesn't mean that if his blue chakra flows in irregular, it also affect the kyubi's chakra..

    Maybe when naruto's blue chakra flows in irregular, it block the kyubi's chakra to enter naruto's body.. is this what you mean RK..?


    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    It was still a while. Later on, he didn't even realize he was in a genjutsu til Itachi specifically told him. What makes you think Naruto thinking would be as easy as messing up his own chakra? You're presuming he could do so with no trouble, which isn't really the case when a paralyzing genjutsu would knock him out moments later.
    Whhatt..? When the crows form of itachi, naruto knows he was at itachi's genjutsu, and he was just wondering how.? when he wasn't even looking on itachi's eyes.. Thats when itachi specifically told him that his finger can also cast genjutsu..


    Quote Originally Posted by White Silver King View Post
    And could you please remind us of how he escaped from that genjutsu? IIRC, Sakura and Chiyo did it, not Naruto.
    What the heck.. Did i say that naruto escaped from itachi's genjutsu..? Realizing that you're in genjutsu is different from escaping from genjutsu.. realizing and escaping are two different things.. no.?
    Last edited by bhasty; May 17, 2011 at 08:09 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Quote:
    What the heck.. Did i say that naruto escaped from itachi's genjutsu..? Realizing that you're in genjutsu is different from escaping from genjutsu.. realizing and escaping are two different things.. no.?
    Yes, yes they are. But realizing you're in a genjutsu isn't the useful technique, escaping from it is.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    [QUOTE=Lelo;2448151]
    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Really..? then why the heck orochimaru can even moved his hand when he was caught by itachi's genjutsu.?

    Because it was Itachi. The king of genjutsu
    I'm just wondering what's the connection between itachi as the king of genjutsu and oro who can moved his hand on itachi's genjutsu..?

    if itachi is indeed the king of genjutsu then why oro can even move his hand from his genjutsu.?

    And If itachi is indeed the king of genjutsu then why he never cast a genjutsu on madara to kill himself.? why he left the quest on his brother to kill/surpass madara if he was the king of genjutsu.? im just wondering..

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