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Thread: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

  1. #526
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    [QUOTE=bhasty;2448665]
    Quote Originally Posted by Lelo View Post

    I'm just wondering what's the connection between itachi as the king of genjutsu and oro who can moved his hand on itachi's genjutsu..?

    if itachi is indeed the king of genjutsu then why oro can even move his hand from his genjutsu.?

    And If itachi is indeed the king of genjutsu then why he never cast a genjutsu on madara to kill himself.? why he left the quest on his brother to kill/surpass madara if he was the king of genjutsu.? im just wondering..



    Unlike Naruto, Oro is the 2nd best Genjutsu user we've seen, yet he was severely outmatched and lost, and admitted that Itachi > Himself, and that came from the sole fight he's had with him, that when Itachi was merely a 13 years old kid.

    What is that having anything to do with Madara? Seriously you're quite a comedian. Didnt Madara survive Minato? Who then decided to put his faith in Naruto about him being the one who defeats Madara?

    Don't start trolling, u'll start something that clearly doesnt belong here, and you'll shoot yourself in the foot, as usual.

    p.s ; the genjutsu used by Itachi wasnt Tsukuyomi, which is obviously his strongest, it was the same thing Sasuke used when Oro was taking over.
    Last edited by insid3rkill3r; May 17, 2011 at 11:18 PM.

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  2. #527
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    [QUOTE=insid3rkill3r;2448780]
    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post




    Unlike Naruto, Oro is the 2nd best Genjutsu user we've seen, yet he was severely outmatched and lost, and admitted that Itachi > Himself, and that came from the sole fight he's had with him, that when Itachi was merely a 13 years old kid.

    What is that having anything to do with Madara? Seriously you're quite a comedian. Didnt Madara survive Minato? Who then decided to put his faith in Naruto about him being the one who defeats Madara?

    Don't start trolling, u'll start something that clearly doesnt belong here, and you'll shoot yourself in the foot, as usual.

    p.s ; the genjutsu used by Itachi wasnt Tsukuyomi, which is obviously his strongest, it was the same thing Sasuke used when Oro was taking over.
    where did you get Oro is the 2nd best Genjutsu user we've seen from? there's madara, sasuke, harashima, and the frog sage, where did orochimaru show his genjutsu skill again.
    Also it's was because orochimaru was looking down on itachi due to his age in that encounter that why he lose the way he did, have he come prepare like he did against hiruzen, then the outcome would have been different, but none the less he did admit itachi was stronger than him, but I just wanted to point these doubted of mine out.

  3. #528
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Does naruto's mind/brain will also be affected by genjutsu..? i think it's not.. Does naruto need any hand seal to use the kyubi's chakra.? I don't think so.. NAruto could manage to use the kyubi's chakra through his thought/mind/brain..

    Naruto can use the RM in exchange of his chakra.. His kyubi's chakra are in separate place inside of his body.. But it doesn't mean that if his blue chakra flows in irregular, it also affect the kyubi's chakra..

    Maybe when naruto's blue chakra flows in irregular, it block the kyubi's chakra to enter naruto's body.. is this what you mean RK..?
    When placed under a paralyzing genjutsu, Naruto's mind would be effected. Not just that, but then Naruto will likely be knocked unconscious. Examples: Orochimaru being paralyzed and over taken by Sasuke in his own mental dimension, Kirabi mentally being pierced by feathers and fainting before the Hachibi stepped in, and Shi being squeezes to the point of unconsciousness. The effects of the genjutsu are mental, thus Naruto's not gonna have the opportunity to go into Rikudou form.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Whhatt..? When the crows form of itachi, naruto knows he was at itachi's genjutsu, and he was just wondering how.? when he wasn't even looking on itachi's eyes.. Thats when itachi specifically told him that his finger can also cast genjutsu..
    The second time Naruto met up with Itachi, when Itachi gave him the crow gift, he was placed in the genjutsu and didn't even realize til Itachi told him.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Actually the results aren't that unexpected exept for Suigetsu bitting Omoi, cause I really believe that Omoi should have won by a little margin, especially because his lightning element.
    Also it was strange for me that Ten Ten won by such a big gap. I actually can't see her winning that easily even before the War and especially now there isn't that big gap, at least until she shows something decent during the War.

    Also even though I voted for Hashirama I didn't expect the gap between him and Killer Bee to be so big. I actually believed that Bee has a decent chance, especially because of his speed and good teamwork with his Biju. Also we should consider that it's Naruto's trend that every next Kage is stronger than previous (normally). At least I would deffinetly say that Sarutobi surpassed First and Second Hokage and Minato surpassed Sarutobi. Tsunade wasn't as strong as they were, but when Naruto becomes Hokage he will surely be the strongest in history.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Actually the results aren't that unexpected exept for Suigetsu bitting Omoi, cause I really believe that Omoi should have won by a little margin, especially because his lightning element.
    Also it was strange for me that Ten Ten won by such a big gap. I actually can't see her winning that easily even before the War and especially now there isn't that big gap, at least until she shows something decent during the War.

    Also even though I voted for Hashirama I didn't expect the gap between him and Killer Bee to be so big. I actually believed that Bee has a decent chance, especially because of his speed and good teamwork with his Biju. Also we should consider that it's Naruto's trend that every next Kage is stronger than previous (normally). At least I would deffinetly say that Sarutobi surpassed First and Second Hokage and Minato surpassed Sarutobi. Tsunade wasn't as strong as they were, but when Naruto becomes Hokage he will surely be the strongest in history.
    You don't vote by % so the gab its only normal. If 1 figher has 51% chanses of winning the votes should be 100 to 0 for that guy. It matters not how close the fight is.

    _____

    I can't belive the guy with close to no feats won over Bee... Ah well at least my other fighters won. You know i am actualy curious if this was Naruto vs the First Hokage how would the fan vot... err the logical debate would have ended.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    I agree that it's strange that there are plenty of fights when people vote only because of hype or because they just like the character more than the other. It was actually like this in the Bleach Tournament as well. Especially in the team fights.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    If you are the best in gejutsu (the king of genjutsu) =/=you can kill someone with genjutsu or more to it Madara who has a sharingan to counter it. I could be the king of trowing rocks but that does not mean i can trow a rock at the moon and move the moon out of orbit.

    Now i am not sure if i can realy put Itachi in the "king of genjutsu" as he never showed Izanagi and that is the ultimate genjutsu. But considering he was able to use genjutsu the best in this manga(even if he never showed the ultimate one) i am sure the title of KING can go with him.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    When placed under a paralyzing genjutsu, Naruto's mind would be effected. Not just that, but then Naruto will likely be knocked unconscious. Examples: Orochimaru being paralyzed and over taken by Sasuke in his own mental dimension, Kirabi mentally being pierced by feathers and fainting before the Hachibi stepped in, and Shi being squeezes to the point of unconsciousness. The effects of the genjutsu are mental, thus Naruto's not gonna have the opportunity to go into Rikudou form..
    Huh..? really..?? i disagree with this.. shi was able to think on why he was caught by genjutsu just like that, and bee never faint of sasuke's genjutsu.. he was just paralyzed and can't move.. i know the genjutsu affect are mental but it doesn't mean that it can also affect the way of thinking with the one who got caught.. never..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    The second time Naruto met up with Itachi, when Itachi gave him the crow gift, he was placed in the genjutsu and didn't even realize til Itachi told him.
    oh... i see.. i thought it was the other one when naruto has been caught by itachi's genjutsu in gaara's arc..

    But naruto immediately realize that he was caught by genjutsu.. He even stated that why he was caught even though he wasn't looking on itachi's eyes.. you're really understimating naruto so much.. sigh...


    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    If you are the best in gejutsu (the king of genjutsu) =/=you can kill someone with genjutsu or more to it Madara who has a sharingan to counter it. I could be the king of trowing rocks but that does not mean i can trow a rock at the moon and move the moon out of orbit.

    Now i am not sure if i can realy put Itachi in the "king of genjutsu" as he never showed Izanagi and that is the ultimate genjutsu. But considering he was able to use genjutsu the best in this manga(even if he never showed the ultimate one) i am sure the title of KING can go with him.
    Itachi is the best in genjutsu, i know that.. (thanks to his MS)

    but the thing is, Does it makes him as the king because he was the best..? Hell no.... If u are the king of genjutsu, it means that u have a strong genjutsu power and you are the best among the best..

    Madara, sasuke and itachi.. The three of them possess a sharingan..

    Madara = EMS
    Sasuke = MS
    Itachi = MS

    Does itachi's eyes is much more powerful than madara..? If itachi is the king of genjutsu then why the hell he never used it against madara..? If he does, then there's no such thing as "MOON EYE PLAN".. He can saved the konoha and the ninja word if he cast his super duper genjutsu on madara, pain and all members of the akatsuki.. He can't give his brother a quest on surpassing madara.. And he was suppose to be the leader of the akatsuki if he was the king of genjutsu..

    Itachi isn't the king of genjutsu, but he was the one among the best of the best genjutsu specialist..
    Last edited by bhasty; May 18, 2011 at 08:01 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  10. #534
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    @bhasty

    Quote Quote:
    Itachi is the best in genjutsu, i know that.. (thanks to his MS)

    but the thing is, Does it makes him as the king because he was the best..? Hell no.... If u are the king of genjutsu, it means that u have a strong genjutsu power and you are the best among the best..
    So you agree he was the best in genjutsu but he does not have a strong genjutsu power and he is not among the best? I don't get it really. I belive you made some mistakes in your choice of words or something.

    Quote Quote:
    Madara, sasuke and itachi.. The three of them possess a sharingan..

    Madara = EMS
    Sasuke = MS
    Itachi = MS
    First off there is no indication that Madara has EMS (hell even a MS that still works outside of izanagi). Madara is stuck somewhere on sharingan level for some reason. Also keep in mind Madara never showed to have Tsukiyomi. Itachi and Sasuke have better genjutsu feats in combat.

    Also Sasuke has EMS not MS :P

    Quote Quote:
    Does itachi's eyes is much more powerful than madara..? If itachi is the king of genjutsu then why the hell he never used it against madara..?
    Because Madara has a sharingan and no matter how good Itachi is he can't trap Madara in one. Even Sasuke was able to stop Tsukiyomi with a normal sharingan. Just because he is the best at it does not mean he can overpower Madara with genjutsu.

    Quote Quote:
    If he does, then there's no such thing as "MOON EYE PLAN".. He can saved the konoha and the ninja word if he cast his super duper genjutsu on madara, pain and all members of the akatsuki.. He can't give his brother a quest on surpassing madara.. And he was suppose to be the leader of the akatsuki if he was the king of genjutsu..
    Oh come on man, if you are the best at genjutsu does not mean you are a GOD. Genjutsu can be countered, even Itachi's. Also it can be stopped by another sharingan if you are good enough. Madara has the sharingan so yeah.

    Quote Quote:
    Itachi isn't the king of genjutsu, but he was the one among the best of the best genjutsu specialist..
    Curently he is the best (so the king) genjutsu user. He never showed Izanagi but what he showed was way above anything else showed with genjutsu alone. You need to understand that the word KING does not mean he can do whatever he likes with genjutsu, just the fact that he was the best.

    Aside from Rikudo himself who was the god of shinobi who would you give the title of genjutsu king to?
    Last edited by xXan; May 18, 2011 at 08:51 AM.

  11. #535
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @bhasty

    So you agree he was the best in genjutsu but he does not have a strong genjutsu power and he is not among the best? I don't get it really. I belive you made some mistakes in your choice of words or something..
    huh.? i said he isn't the king of genjutsu but he was one of the best among the best genjutsu specialist..

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    First off there is no indication that Madara has EMS (hell even a MS that still works outside of izanagi). Madara is stuck somewhere on sharingan level for some reason. Also keep in mind Madara never showed to have Tsukiyomi. Itachi and Sasuke have better genjutsu feats in combat..
    Because the manga never shown anything about madara's EMS.. But the manga/itachi clearly stated that madara has EMS. He was the one who completed the final stage/puzzle of the sharingan.(?) Who faught hashirama in the valley of the end.. even though madara never showed that he have tsukuyomi but it doesn't mean he can't used it.. Or maybe the tsukuyomi/genjutsu is useless against madara.. until the manga shown anything, then madara has the EMS and hold the title as King of genjutsu..(If there's any)

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Also Sasuke has EMS not MS :P.
    No.. If sasuke has EMS, it makes itachi a blind man.. Sasuke's EMS is a combination of his eyes and itachi's eyes.. If itachi is part of this tournament, i think sasuke doesn't have his EMS, No..?

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Because Madara has a sharingan and no matter how good Itachi is he can't trap Madara in one. Even Sasuke was able to stop Tsukiyomi with a normal sharingan. Just because he is the best at it does not mean he can overpower Madara with genjutsu..
    How come itachi as king of genjutsu can't trap/cast on madara his genjutsu.? If he was the king then he can cast madara instantly.. so going by that logic, itachi is a skilled/genuis/best in genjutsu but not a king(?)..

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Oh come on man, if you are the best at genjutsu does not mean you are a GOD. Genjutsu can be countered, even Itachi's. Also it can be stopped by another sharingan if you are good enough. Madara has the sharingan so yeah..
    Exactly, even if you are the best at genjutsu it doesn't mean you are a king.. And for the record, not all genjutsu can be countered.. maybe the sharingan's genjutsu..

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Curently he is the best (so the king) genjutsu user. He never showed Izanagi but what he showed was way above anything else showed with genjutsu alone. You need to understand that the word KING does not mean he can do whatever he likes with genjutsu, just the fact that he was the best.
    He was one of the best and not best among the best.. And the word king means is you can do whatever you want.. If he was the king of genjutsu then he can cast anyone. but it's not the case on itachi..

    He was one of the best genjutsu specialist but NOT THE KING OF GENJUTSU..

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Aside from Rikudo himself who was the god of shinobi who would you give the title of genjutsu king to?
    Rikudou King.. hehe(joke)

    Kidding aside, well i give it to madara

  12. #536
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon
    Actually the results aren't that unexpected exept for Suigetsu bitting Omoi, cause I really believe that Omoi should have won by a little margin, especially because his lightning element.
    Many posts in that topic say it was the other way around .. xd

    As for Hashirama vs Bee - Its unbelievable : O Now this fight really counts for lurkers
    ..:: I LoVe I's ::.. [Naruto] Share your thoughts on: Boobies

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    The one thing I dislike the most about Bee losing to Hashirama is that he survived based on an unprovable claim (that he can simply take away Bee's bijuu or chakra shroud).

    We'll see if they use the same logic if Naruto faces him.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    @bhasty

    Quote Quote:
    Because the manga never shown anything about madara's EMS.. But the manga/itachi clearly stated that madara has EMS. He was the one who completed the final stage/puzzle of the sharingan.(?) Who faught hashirama in the valley of the end.. even though madara never showed that he have tsukuyomi but it doesn't mean he can't used it.. Or maybe the tsukuyomi/genjutsu is useless against madara.. until the manga shown anything, then madara has the EMS and hold the title as King of genjutsu..(If there's any)
    Madara had EMS once a long time ago. Curent one is stuck on normal sharingan so this is irrelevant. The rest of you post its very bad reasoning. The manga needs to show Madara having it not the other way around.
    Madara does not have EMS or tsukuyomi.

    Quote Quote:
    No.. If sasuke has EMS, it makes itachi a blind man.. Sasuke's EMS is a combination of his eyes and itachi's eyes.. If itachi is part of this tournament, i think sasuke doesn't have his EMS, No..?
    Half of this tournament are dead people so this is not a big woup. Also Itachi is curently in the manga alive (in a sense) wit his eyes and Sasuke has the EMS.

    Quote Quote:
    How come itachi as king of genjutsu can't trap/cast on madara his genjutsu.? If he was the king then he can cast madara instantly.. so going by that logic, itachi is a skilled/genuis/best in genjutsu but not a king(?)..
    Itachi does not need to put Madara under genjutsu to be the king of it. There are some things that genjutsu does not work on.

    Quote Quote:
    Exactly, even if you are the best at genjutsu it doesn't mean you are a king.. And for the record, not all genjutsu can be countered.. maybe the sharingan's genjutsu..
    King = the best at genjutsu and Itachi showed with feats that he is. Also what genjutsu can't be countered?

    Quote Quote:
    He was one of the best and not best among the best.. And the word king means is you can do whatever you want.. If he was the king of genjutsu then he can cast anyone. but it's not the case on itachi..

    He was one of the best genjutsu specialist but NOT THE KING OF GENJUTSU..
    Defenetly not. To be the best at genjutsu (king) = having the best feats in genjutsu and Itachi has those. If you are the best in something does not mean you can do whatever you are this is realy ridiculous.

    Quote Quote:
    Kidding aside, well i give it to madara
    Based on feats this is completly wrong. Show me Madara having better genjutsu feats then Itachi. On panel feats only no asumtions.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Huh..? really..?? i disagree with this.. shi was able to think on why he was caught by genjutsu just like that, and bee never faint of sasuke's genjutsu.. he was just paralyzed and can't move.. i know the genjutsu affect are mental but it doesn't mean that it can also affect the way of thinking with the one who got caught.. never..
    Shi was unable to act because he was being squeezed mentally and Kirabi basically did faint. Neither of them were able to do anything, even though they knew it was a genjutsu. Basically every example has shown that once trapped in the genjutsu, the target is unable to do anything to escape. The only exceptions were Sasuke and somewhat Danzo.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    oh... i see.. i thought it was the other one when naruto has been caught by itachi's genjutsu in gaara's arc..

    But naruto immediately realize that he was caught by genjutsu.. He even stated that why he was caught even though he wasn't looking on itachi's eyes.. you're really understimating naruto so much.. sigh...
    Naruto didn't immediately realize anything. Immediately at the very latest would have been when his teammates turned into copies of Itachi. Instead Naruto didn't realize anything til the crows became Itachi and he waited longer then that to attempt to break out. And Naruto didn't know how he was caught til Itachi told him. It's far from underestimation, especially when we have seen people far better at genjutsu unable to do any better.

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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread

    @ Bhasty,

    Just because Itachi is so far the best genjutsu user we have seen in the manga doesnt mean he can wreck the S**T out of everyone just because of that.

    As shown by Sasuke, Madara wouldnt necessarly need to be extremely good with genjutsu to break Itachi's illusions, he would need to have stronger eyes to defend against it, just like Sasuke did.

    Which is why you post seemed like a troll because you made it seem as 'If Itachi was so great, how come he didnt do doo doo shit to Madara'...

    And the reason why Itachi is portrayed as the 'king' of genjutsu is because of how efficient his illusions are.

    The only one who was able to break it so far is Sasuke, and we know for a fact Sasuke isnt better at genjutsu than Itachi, but that he has stronger eyes than him.


    As you're acting like Madara has shown any genjutsu feat.

    We know PRIME Madara had the EMS.

    Right now, the man known as Tobi/Madara hasnt shown anything to confirm to us he really is Madara, he also hasnt shown anything to confirm he is a wielder of the MS of EMS for that matter.

    Madara doesnt hold the title of King of genjutsu, he simply was the strongest Uchiha in his prime, we have yet to see who/what Tobi really is.

    And just because Madara put a genjutsu on Kyuubi doesnt mean he's better at genjutsu than Itachi is, as i said, Sasuke broke Itachi's Tsukuyomi yet his genjutsu is severaly outmatched compared to Itachi's... Danzo confirmed it.
    Last edited by insid3rkill3r; May 18, 2011 at 02:44 PM.

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