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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Personaly i belive we should allow the combatants all the abilities they got. Look at Bleach tournament. Even if Yama Ji defenetly will win they left him at full power.
Personaly i belive by removing abilities would decrease the fun factor.
I agree with this because they would need some insane prep before the battle and human sacrifices. Kankuro's puppets are defenetly not the same thing. Also what edo's whould we use? Up to the moment this tournament starts there will probably be no more edo's left for Kabuto ...
Imagine Itachi vs Kabuto. Its going to be Kabuto summoning Itachi himself and fighting itachi lol.
Over here we need to go with Pein and not Nagato... Why? Because that is his latest incarnation and we have limited information on how Nagato himself fights. Going with Nagato and not Pein is a very bad idea. We remove Nagato's biggest jutsu so why? I hope mods are going to change this.
This is a big mistake made in the rules. The mods should find ways to limit "ífs" and asumtions. Going with Nagato would imply using lots of asumtions on how he fights.
If we get to see his rinnegan up to the moment this starts we should include it.
They defenetly need to be included up to the 7 one. Even if one of them is at the end of the fight they are left incapacitated. The only one who should not be used its the 8 one as that would kill you and at best you would get a draw.
As for Tobirama, we decided to not bring him into the tournament because 1) Edo Tensei was disallowed, 2) We don't know much about his S/T technique(s) and 3) All we would be left with was "he's awesome at water techniques", which is kind of vague.. It's a shame really as Tobirama is quite the awesome character.
Take in mind that we had people involved in the planning process for the Bleach tournament in this one as well, and we got quite a lot of experience from Bleach. Overall it seems like the Bleach fandom found it boring how Yama would just win-win-win-win-win easily through the whole tournament. The Bleach Tournament was and still is far more predictable than the Naruto Tournament. The limitations were implemented to balance the power levels somewhat and make the tournament more interesting, not the other way around. We tried to keep limitations to a minimum as our philosophy was to have it as "natural as it could be while still making it as unpredictable and interesting as it should be".
Would you honestly want Madara with the Rinnegan? I think it's safe to assume that he can do more or less everything Nagato could, plus all he had prior to the transplant. He already talked about using Human Path's ability, there's nothing that indicates that he can't use e.g. Deva Path's abilities as well. Can you imagine how overpowered he would be? The Six Path's powers + intangible body, teleporting and Izanagi? Madara would easily win the tournament... All he has to do at the moment is warp his opponent into his dimension, and he wins. Imagine how easy that would be if he had the Rinnegan as well? Don't you agree that the list looks pretty balanced with a lot of names that could do potentially win, and that removing for example Madara's limitation would make him absurdly powerful?
As for Nagato I disagree about him being such an unknown. We've seen him move extremely fast when saving Konan. We saw him use Shinra Tensei. We know Madara can use Human Path's ability thus so could Nagato. We know Pain was a technique made by Nagato, hence all of Pain's techniques came from Nagato and could be performed by Nagato just as easily. The only real unknown we found were Asura Path's abilities as he looked like a cyborg of sorts, as such that path's abilities were excluded.
Last edited by 3c; March 27, 2011 at 07:38 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
i don't know if i agree with Madara not having the rinnegan ( in case Kishi already showed us Madara using it ), but i understand why of this rule, if Mara could use the rinnegan , it should be easier to put Madara already at the final or even as the winner, if it is Madara withouth the rinnegan , maybe still some characters could defeat him .
No away that i am going to let Naruto being defeated against Madara without rinnegan, not now that he has rikoudo mode and other stuff, i just hope by that time we already have seen at least some of the improvements that Naruto made with this training
About et i couldn't agree more , it would be too weird allowing it
Last edited by jorped; March 27, 2011 at 07:47 AM.
I see fully where the tournament planners are coming from
That said... If we limit Negato to a single body by taking away his paths he loses a few of things that made him a greater adversary...
1 - He loses shared vision (Not counting summons)
without the shared vision, he losses his advantage over the Byakugan, his shared vision is what kept the Deva Path alive during the Kakashi fight
2 - He loses his fighting style (or rather... it is extremely augmented)
Pein's ability was not about 6 on 1 battles... It was more of using the 6 paths as one body... a body to give cover fire, a body to tank attacks, a body to heal, a body to gather info, a body to summon creatures, and a body to lead the battle...
Now if we take away the 6 paths, here is the fighting style assumption we are left with... Negato can't rely on shared vision, He loses the cyborg stronghold, He won't be able to escape certain techniques as easily (Frog Song, Ameratsu) due to lack of bodies (though he may still tank ameratsu), and he doesn't have any back up to defend him between 5 second intervals...
3 - With his main defense gone, he has to rely only on summons
The summons are the only option for defense, but these targets are huge, and any sufficent strength or Jutsu is enough to plow through them.
4 - He loses battle strategy (this is the biggest thing I worry for)
It is no doubt that what made Pein so fierce was the fact that he used the 6 paths to the fullest. In one body he can't use different techniques at the exact same time coming from different directions, we have never seen him use a clone technique, and we know that he can be caught off gaurd, and that is just something I really don't see him conquering over in one body.
these are my main four concerns about Negato... but truly at most it's only slightly over being nitpicking
Also, we haven't seen Lee go past 5 gates in the series so far.
It'll be kinda boring if Guy could open 7 gates as he would beat most of (all?) the top-tier with it.
Last edited by matsemann08; March 27, 2011 at 09:01 AM.
Last edited by blai; March 27, 2011 at 09:10 AM.
Well, since it's a "tournament", it makes sense that Gai can't use 8-gates.
Because, if he use it, he could win, but then wouldn't be able to fight the next round.
Still, it feels weird that we can't have everyone go "all-out".
And they are pretty much the only ones that are restricted...
Madara's rinnengan make sense, since anyway we didn't see what he could do with it (it might be different from Nagato's) and for Oro/Kabuto ET, I think it's the right decision to restrict it.
Because it would not work in a Tournament. I already stated why. You can include but Edo but then again what edo's is he going to use? What if its Itachi vs Itachi? Nagato vs Nagato? What if Kabuto is going to run out of Edo's up to the moment this starts? etc,etc,etc.Quote:
I understand this but i also find it a waste of time to debate who is better when one of the participants have a handicap from the start. What is the point if Sakura is going to beat up Itachi that can only move one finger(no genjutsu) and nothing else (i know there is nothing like this in the rules, just giving 1 example). Just to debate for debate sake its not that interesting to me.Quote:
Also its not a 100% chanse Yama Ji would win. There are TONS of fan votes.
If we whant to debate who is top dog in Naruto-verse then we need to include all abilities. Also edo's don't apply here because you would need tons of prep to pull that off. In a fight no prep is allowed so that is why i stated no edo's.
Defenetly not. Nagato had 2 rinnegan ayes, Madara has one and as we know for Susano you need 2 sharingan ayes. So limitation could be found here to.Quote:
Also there are other things Madara can't do like the shared vision mode or robot mode(that robot realm) and its missile attacks.
We don't even know if he can still do this things with his normal sharingan aye(visible eye). Also i staded IF we get to see what he can do with it up to the moment this thing starts. If not then he should be the version just before the rinnegan.Quote:
I agree Madara would probably win this BUT we still have the other fights. What would be the point for X winning a tornament where the others are handicapped just so he has a shot?Quote:
In the only fight we got to see him fight Nagato looked damn unstable and used close to no taijutsu. Now people already belive that Nagato is a complete moron. I really can't w8 to see people showing how he is going to get 1 shoted because of this. Also why remove his Pein jutsu? Does Itachi get his god-like-weapons on his Susano? The only one who would be aple to fight Itachi with any chanse of winning would be Madara. Remove Pein and Itachi has about 90% chanse of winning this. The only one who could stop Itachi's Susano is CT from Deva.Quote:
Again i never stated what powers he could use but HOW he will use them. What is in his caracter to do. Is he going to get tricked so easy as he got with his realms? Will he fight smarter? etc. People are going to argue that because he was careless with his realms (even a kid was able to do a rasengan on him) the same thing is going to apply to his real self.
Again why remove Pein? Its not like there is absolutly no chanse of winning vs Pein.
As for Gay and 7 gates and what he could do with them i am fully ok with this. Its his ability.
I don't know about that. The bones in our body protect our organs (which is what the Gentle Fist goes after), Kimimaro should no problem manipulating his bones to completely cover and protect his organs. As for his tenketsu, Kidomaru was able to render his 64 palms with his sap armor which seems to me to be much weaker than Kimi's bones.Quote:
I agree that Lee can't go further than 5 gates in this tournament because we haven't seen him do that and we don't even know if he's capable of it.
Well yes, after Blai's post I agree that Guy should be able to use 7 gates.
Isn't it sort of unfair that Nagato gets his healthy body, yet Kimi and Itachi are both sick? Both of their illnesses, much more Itachi's made them weaker. I know we don't want to leave anything to speculation, but hacking up blood mid battle and being unable to dodge attacks kind of hinders what Itachi is "supposed to be".
Also, is Itachi nearly blind like when he fought Sasuke, or does he have his "good" vision that he had back in part 1?
As far as taking ET out, that makes perfect sense. However, other limitations kind of doesn't.
Is Madara really going to be that much stronger, than say Sasuke with EMS, or Naruto with full control over the Kyuubi? We don't know yet what Naruto and Sasuke are fully capable of yet, same goes for someone like Muu who could be freakishly powerful. So making Madara weaker in the end might be pointless because he may not even be the strongest character in the tournament in a few weeks.
All character abilities will be finalized the second the tournament starts. That means that if Shikamaru shows a new tech next week, he will be able to do it in the tournament (unless it is completely unfair). Until then, lets not debate hypothetical scenarios. :3
Pain - Pain is not going to be allowed. Compared to the rest, He is incredibly strong and including him would bring up too many stipulations in the fight. For example, do the other participants know that he has 6 bodies, does Pain start out with just using Animal Realm like he did against Jiraiya or is it 6 vs 1 to start? Those are just a few of the things that would need to be covered and we would like to keep everything as simple as possible.
Since we will be allowing a certain amount of prior knowledge to be known i.e Kakashi has a Sharingan, Shodai was a Mokuton user, Itachi is an Uchiha... There is the issue of how much prior knowledge one has before facing him. Not knowing anything is instant doom for many, if not all of the participants. So, do they know what each path can do, the recharge time for Shinra Tensei, etc... In the end the fact that he is uber strong and there are too many things that need to be covered, he isn't going to be allowed.
for the last one on the top tier why don't kin/gin get added as one opponent they work well together and can use the kyuubi shroud and the RS items. also ET should be allowed but limit it to one or 3 zombies for either the 2nd hokage, oro, and kabuto.
Last edited by NAM61; March 27, 2011 at 02:54 PM.
Also going with how much info people got on the other dudes it is only normal that peeps will have 0 info on Pein.
Now if you think people having 0 info on Pein = defeat how about:
Itachi and tsukuyomi = instant defeat to ALL peeps but Itachi and Sasuke.
Itachi/Sasuke with Amaterasu is instant defeat to most of them. exceptions are some but not many.
Itachi's Susano and the weapons = invincible Itachi (as stated by PlantBoy and i have to agree). The only one i see stoping him is Deva with CT but Nagato would have 0 chanses to even get to use CT vs Itachi.
Of course Madara could buy some time but that is it(intangibility, teleport).
Madara's teleport you up would be instant win vs all but Minato(he has ST to actualy get away). This is all considering Susano would not go up instantly, with Susano the brothers could put up a fight.
Nerfing Nagato but allowing the Uchiha to instantly win fights is not right with me. Expecialy with the rull that states peeps don't know what Itachi can do is instant loss vs his tsukuyomi. Basic info about the sharingan right?
The way i see it with this rules the finalist are all going to be Uchihas ...
Even Raikaige has 0 chanses to fight off Itachi, curent Sasuke or Madara.
Bee? 1 amaterasu and he is done (we got to see this part in the manga).
Naruto? Grreees brr genjutsu = done.
Who exacly is going to fight off the Uchihas? Yes sure let's remove Pein because he would be the only one to stop the Uchihas from dominating... To much hating around here on Nagato...
Also i would accept the rules if you name 1 person that would have any chanse on defeating the Uchiha. 1vs1 with Itachi its a death sentence for anybody but another Uchiha.. Great no?
Last edited by xXan; March 27, 2011 at 03:14 PM.