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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Shunsui

    68 65.38%
  • Yoruichi

    36 34.62%
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Thread: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

  1. #196
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Shunsui only dodged a few ceros, if he's truly that fast, then the fact that he was about to get hit makes Stark's attack look fast, not Shunsui. I wasn't saying that Yoruichi wins just because shes faster. I was just saying that as it currently stands, its very, very likely that shes faster than him.
    See? That's why I brought up the anime to convey the more general interpretation that is accepted by the animation studio, myself, and most bleach fans out there: It does not have to be absolutely correct, but it makes a whole lot more sense that Starrk had actually fired a few dozen if not hundreds of cero at Shunsui.

    Manga panels depict an instant of time, at that instant Starrk was firing 14+ ceros at once. That by itself debunks the "few ceros" claim...

    IMHO, this is a more realistic interptation than the one highlighted in red above: View Here


    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    If anything it's Shunsui that shouldn't have gotten past Gin.
    Don't tell me most readers have been holding a grudge against Shunsui now because of Gin?
    Last edited by LucyBenard; March 25, 2011 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. #197
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Quote Originally Posted by exacta View Post
    Don't see why she shouldn't ve gotten past Byakuya. She was a captain when he was just a little scrub, and she did outmanuveur him in SS. But don't get me started on characters who shouldn'tve gotten past their matches.

    Shunsui only dodged a few ceros, if he's truly that fast, then the fact that he was about to get hit makes Stark's attack look fast, not Shunsui. I wasn't saying that Yoruichi wins just because shes faster. I was just saying that as it currently stands, its very, very likely that shes faster than him.
    1. Age does not matter unless you are one of the seniors. So what if she was a captain when he was a young boy. Byakuya's grandpa was a captain as well yet byakuya became even more powerful than he did.
    And what happened in ss was not all that impressive. She surprised him with cicada, that is all. Afterwards, he just let her be. It was not as if he chased after her.

    2.http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html
    That is MUCH more than just a few ceros. U do understand they stack up on each other right? And he is also continuously shooting them. Hence his change in posture
    I never argued that shunsui is faster than youruichi. But i do believe shunsui is fast enough to counter anything she throws at him


    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Yama said they were only dual soul cutters in all SS: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v18/c156/14.html

    but he was wrong, Hisagi has a dual soul cutter.
    No he doesn't. He has scythes, not swords. Big difference

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - Yama's words are manga fact? What makes Yama's words manga fact, the fact that he said them? There's multiple reasons Yama could be very wrong about his assessment.

    - Are Yama's words manga facts and Aizen's not? Urahara wasn't trying to finish WW or Yammy. Also Shunsui and Ukitake haven't backed up Yama's claim.
    Yes. Because the author uses his characters as a way to portray his thoughts. We were just being introduced to shunsui and uki and the author used that time to hype and present these 2 as the strongest of the captains

    Aizen BS everyone. TO the whole KS, to i was stronger than everyone in SS ... to no i am no because yama is stronger... to the whole ichigo bs... etc. Aizen is a lying psycho.

    Urahara wasn't trying to finish them? What kind of nonsense is that? THey are the enemy, of course he is trying to beat them. And shunsui/uki has not backed up the claim? How about the fact that he can take out the 1st espada released with just his shikai while urahara's shikai couldn't kill yammi and got knocked like child's play by ulqui the 4th. Your claim is pretty ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Yoruichi can use a similar strategy to the one Starrk used (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v42/c363/13.html).
    So youruichi has a gun that can fire cero extremely quick? U do realize shunsui dodged it right?


    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Yama said they were only dual soul cutters in all SS: http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v18/c156/14.html

    but he was wrong, Hisagi has a dual soul cutter.
    No he doesn't. He has scythes, not swords. Big difference

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - Yama's words are manga fact? What makes Yama's words manga fact, the fact that he said them? There's multiple reasons Yama could be very wrong about his assessment.

    - Are Yama's words manga facts and Aizen's not? Urahara wasn't trying to finish WW or Yammy. Also Shunsui and Ukitake haven't backed up Yama's claim.
    Yes. Because the author uses his characters as a way to portray his thoughts. We were just being introduced to shunsui and uki and the author used that time to hype and present these 2 as the strongest of the captains

    Aizen BS everyone. TO the whole KS, to i was stronger than everyone in SS ... to no i am no because yama is stronger... to the whole ichigo bs... etc. Aizen is a lying psycho.

    Urahara wasn't trying to finish them? What kind of nonsense is that? THey are the enemy, of course he is trying to beat them. And shunsui/uki has not backed up the claim? How about the fact that he can take out the 1st espada released with just his shikai while urahara's shikai couldn't kill yammi and got knocked like child's play by ulqui the 4th. Your claim is pretty ridiculous

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    Yoruichi can use a similar strategy to the one Starrk used (http://www.mangafox.com/manga/bleach/v42/c363/13.html).
    So youruichi has a gun that can fire cero extremely quick? U do realize shunsui dodged it right?
    Last edited by Raizen; March 26, 2011 at 01:31 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  4. #198
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Quote Quote:
    No he doesn't. He has scythes, not swords. Big difference
    It doesn't matter if their swords or scythes, they're still soul cutters

    Quote Quote:
    Yes. Because the author uses his characters as a way to portray his thoughts. We were just being introduced to shunsui and uki and the author used that time to hype and present these 2 as the strongest of the captains

    Aizen BS everyone. TO the whole KS, to i was stronger than everyone in SS ... to no i am no because yama is stronger... to the whole ichigo bs... etc. Aizen is a lying psycho.

    Urahara wasn't trying to finish them? What kind of nonsense is that? THey are the enemy, of course he is trying to beat them. And shunsui/uki has not backed up the claim? How about the fact that he can take out the 1st espada released with just his shikai while urahara's shikai couldn't kill yammi and got knocked like child's play by ulqui the 4th. Your claim is pretty ridiculous
    - If Yama is right, that would mean: Urahara couldn't have created any incredibly strong inventions for regular use in battle, developed new kido, learn new bankai techniques, if any of these things made him stronger than Shunsui or Ukitake. It also means the vizards with boost they get from their bankai and mask couldn't be stronger than Shunsui or Ukitake either.

    - Every time Urahara was fighting Yammy he was playing around.

    - Shunsui might as well of been fighting Starrk unreleased. Shunsui only managed to beat him, with his shikai, because Starrk wasn't using his two strongest abilities against him. If wasn't for Love and Rose distracting Starrk for so long, Shunsui's shikai wouldn't of got in the mood to play Shunsui's games. After the first time Starrk used Cero Metrella Shunsui was about to use bankai.

    - Ulquiorra knocking away Urahara's blast doesn't mean anything if we don't know how strong that blast was.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; March 26, 2011 at 05:19 AM.

  5. #199
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    I voted Youruichi because the Shihouin noble house seems to have a hell of a lot of trickery at their disposal. Case and point, The seal they used to destroy the "1000000 zanpakutou" guilliotine in its released phoenix form.

    Further, there is a great unknown quantity in her power because we know she can run rings around anyone and punch the living bajesus out of them but that's it. We've actually seen quite a few of Kyouraku-Sama's moves and I would say Youruichi-Sama can move fast enough to avoid the strikes.

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  7. #200
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Omiem's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Whats so hard about calling out a color? What's so hard to understand that Starrk didn't even figure out that he had to call a color in order to attack until Shunsui told him so? What's so hard to accept that Yoruichi along with anyone else who plays the game will be at a disadvantage because they don't know the rules? What's Yoruichi going to do when Shunsui calls Irooni- says black and chops her legs or her chest or her mid section? All of which are black? You think she'll magically be ok? Where has she shown that she's in light of Shunsui's games? Where's the logic at in these statements?
    You do realize that an IC Shunsui will give Yoruichi knowledge of his games, do you? Anyways, what makes you think Shunsui is gonna land his blade in the first place? You honestly believe it's gonna be that easy? I'm still doubtful of whether or not Shunsui will get a chance to use his color games at all.
    Last edited by Omiem; March 26, 2011 at 06:02 PM.

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  9. #201
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    It doesn't matter if their swords or scythes, they're still soul cutters



    - If Yama is right, that would mean: Urahara couldn't have created any incredibly strong inventions for regular use in battle, developed new kido, learn new bankai techniques, if any of these things made him stronger than Shunsui or Ukitake. It also means the vizards with boost they get from their bankai and mask couldn't be stronger than Shunsui or Ukitake either.

    - Every time Urahara was fighting Yammy he was playing around.

    - Shunsui might as well of been fighting Starrk unreleased. Shunsui only managed to beat him, with his shikai, because Starrk wasn't using his two strongest abilities against him. If wasn't for Love and Rose distracting Starrk for so long, Shunsui's shikai wouldn't of got in the mood to play Shunsui's games. After the first time Starrk used Cero Metrella Shunsui was about to use bankai.

    - Ulquiorra knocking away Urahara's blast doesn't mean anything if we don't know how strong that blast was.
    1) I believe that Yamamoto was referring to swords. Might be a translation error. Look it up.

    2) Urahara had 100+ years to create those inventions. But then again, inventions <> strength in battle. According to Yamamoto (Kubo): Shunsui/Ukitake > Urahara. And I'd suspect that you'd put Urahara above Yoruichi (Sealed) as well, thus: Shunsui (Shikai) > Yoruichi (Sealed)

    3) That's Urahara's character. He likes to play around in battle. I do not think that's a positive thing.

    4) Woah, too much speculation. Way too much. Shunsui beat Starrk with Shikai only. That's the number one Espada. Ichigo another captain level shinigami needed: Bankai + Vaizard Mask to battle the 6th Espada on even ground. IMO, the Vaizards captains are around the 3rd/4th Espada level with their Masks/Shikai.

    What does that mean? Shunsui is a legend, as conveyed by Yamamoto.

    5) We'll just assume that Urahara's blast was at full power. That's how bleach is: full power, or no power when it comes to energy attacks.

  10. #202
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Quote Originally Posted by Omiem View Post
    You do realize that an IC Shunsui will give Yoruichi knowledge of his games, do you? Anyways, what makes you think Shunsui is gonna land his blade in the first place? You honestly believe it's gonna be that easy? I'm still doubtful of whether or not Shunsui will get a chance to use his color games at all.
    She'll have to get close to him in order to attack right? So there's his opportunity to strike with one of his games. Bushogoma will do the trick also. Unless you think Yoruichi is just so beyond everyone in the manga that there's no way she'll ever get touched

    I don't buy that. Shunsui detected her presence when no one else could even tell someone was coming. Not even Soi-Fon knew it. There's no reason to assume his games won't work. This is evident in Bushogoma and Takaoni being played regardless of how the 'mood' issue was. Even if they weren't enforced, they still were played. And bushogoma caused Starrk to be confused, the only reason Takaoni didn't work was because of Starrk's cero. What can Yoruichi do that's even like a cero? Nothing. She's a close up fighter, and Shunsui exceeds her in CQC, maybe not hand to hand, but what good will punches and Shunko do when you're facing games that force you to play by their rules?

  11. #203
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    I want to go on record as saying that Yamamoto's words reflect Kubo's intentions as of their writing. Yamamoto's words about Shunsui being strongest also need to take into account that it includes a lot of information we're not allowed to use in the tournament, like his Bankai.
    Anyhoo, the big question to me is "Will Yoruichi be able to finish Shunsui with Shunko?" since she's shown very little proper finisher power otherwise. I believe the answer to be "no" since I fully expect Shunsui's shikai to be an effective counter through Kageoni. Not to mention the fact that Shunsui's willing to fight dirty. If only Yoruichi had a Zanpakuto...

  12. #204
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Omiem's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    She'll have to get close to him in order to attack right? So there's his opportunity to strike with one of his games.
    Yeah, but Shunsui is facing against Shunko combined with Yoruichi's Hakuda and speed, which is why I say it's not gonna be easy for him to land a blow. Especially if Utsusemi is factored into the equation.
    Quote Quote:
    Bushogoma will do the trick also. Unless you think Yoruichi is just so beyond everyone in the manga that there's no way she'll ever get touched

    And bushogoma caused Starrk to be confused, the only reason Takaoni didn't work was because of Starrk's cero. What can Yoruichi do that's even like a cero? Nothing.
    -Yoruichi could counter it with Shunko, or dodge it, since she can react to Cocoon Aizen's speed. Something in which I don't believe most other captains can do. Even if Yoruichi does get caught, Bushogoma won't cause any significant damage, and if Shunsui decides to attack, Yoruichi can stop him with a Shunko blast. Just like Starrk stopping Shunsui with his Cero.

    -Takaoni is featless, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up in the first place.
    Quote Quote:
    I don't buy that. Shunsui detected her presence when no one else could even tell someone was coming. Not even Soi-Fon knew it.
    Provide me a panel of Reiatsu sensing being useful in a 1v1 battle situation. If you're just saying this to justify Shunsui's intelligence, then don't bother, because I already agree that Shunsui is smart.
    Quote Quote:
    There's no reason to assume his games won't work. This is evident in Bushogoma and Takaoni being played regardless of how the 'mood' issue was. Even if they weren't enforced, they still were played.
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...4/page005.html
    Quote Quote:
    She's a close up fighter, and Shunsui exceeds her in CQC, maybe not hand to hand, but what good will punches and Shunko do when you're facing games that force you to play by their rules?
    Just call out a color, and then attack. What's so hard about that? Remember, an IC Shunsui will give Yoruichi knowledge of his game, so she'll know the rules. Again, I personally doubt Shunsui's CQC skills exceeds Shunko Yoruichi combined with her speed, reaction skills, Hakuda, and Utsusemi.
    Last edited by Omiem; March 27, 2011 at 12:30 AM.

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  14. #205
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member exacta's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    1. Age does not matter unless you are one of the seniors. So what if she was a captain when he was a young boy. Byakuya's grandpa was a captain as well yet byakuya became even more powerful than he did.
    And what happened in ss was not all that impressive. She surprised him with cicada, that is all. Afterwards, he just let her be. It was not as if he chased after her.

    2.http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html
    That is MUCH more than just a few ceros. U do understand they stack up on each other right? And he is also continuously shooting them. Hence his change in posture
    I never argued that shunsui is faster than youruichi. But i do believe shunsui is fast enough to counter anything she throws at him
    <hr noshade size="1">
    That's not many ceros. The first page you showed me he fired like 14, the second page showed that Shunsui shunpo'd away from the attack, which shows the same amount of ceros as page 1. On page 3, he changes posture to continue attacking, firing like 7 more. Then Ukitake intervenes. It's not like in the anime when Stark just started firing a crapload of ceros into one area. In the anime, he didn't even change posture while firing, he remained stationary. In the manga, he only fired like 20 ceros, and towards the end of those 20 he was about to get hit, which is why Ukitake stepped in. I'm not saying Stark can't fire a shit-ton of ceros, but he didn't there, because Ukitake stopped him short.

    Just surprised him with cicada?? I didn't read that scene in the manga, I just watched the anime since the anime was up to the arrancar arc when I started, but that scene certainly was impressive, especially since no other character at that point displayed speed that could best Byakuya. Outspeeding Byakuya isn't unimpressive. And, errrr exactly where did it say that Byakuya became more powerful than Ginrei??? For all we know Ginrei could've been promoted to the Royal Guard at some point, and thats why we haven't seen him.

    I don't know how fast Yoruichi's energy palm attack was, but its destructive power was impressive, and if its coming from Yoruichi I doubt its slow.It didn't look like Soifon was able to dodge it, Yoruichi just held back because she didn't want to actually hurt her with it. If Soifon can't dodge it, I don't think Shunsui can, though I suppose you could argue Soifon was being reckless. Also, I thought Yama was talking more about Ukitake and Shunsui's teamwork than their actual individual strength in that scenario.
    Last edited by exacta; March 26, 2011 at 09:51 PM.

  15. #206
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Shihōin Yoruichi

    Shunsui wins the match! He shall advance on into the Semifinals. Discuss the result of this match and all others in the Tournament Discussion thread.

    Stay tuned for more details!

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