Team Cueball Cubed vs Team Big Gunz

[El Samurai Guapo]

No, but Starrk's speed isn't too much of a factor if all he's doing is spamming ceros. Once he realizes Hachi will just block them all with barriers he'll either break out his energy swords or send in the wolves.

[CeroOskuraz]

So you basically think that Hachi can put up barriers before Stark can fire a barrage of ceros?

[El Samurai Guapo]

So you basically think that Hachi can put up barriers before Stark can fire a barrage of ceros?

Yeah.

[CeroOskuraz]

http://www.mangareader.net/94-813-2/...apter-359.html

http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html

[El Samurai Guapo]

http://www.mangareader.net/94-813-2/...apter-359.html

http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html

Yeah, all he has to do is throw up a hand to stop that.
http://www.mangareader.net/94-28732-...apter-370.html

[CeroOskuraz]

Yeah, all he has to do is throw up a hand to stop that.
http://www.mangareader.net/94-28732-...apter-370.html

Top right corner. Barrier is already in place.

It's not so simple or quick.

[El Samurai Guapo]

Top right corner. Barrier is already in place.

It's not so simple or quick.

In the top left-hand panel of the scan I linked to you can see he puts that barrier up with one hand. Later he puts his mask on and uses both hands to strengthen it. I'm saying Hachi should be able to throw an arm up and produce a barrier in the time Shunsui dodges.

[CeroOskuraz]

You think Hachi could react to Stark's insane speeds?

No, but Starrk's speed isn't too much of a factor if all he's doing is spamming ceros. Once he realizes Hachi will just block them all with barriers he'll either break out his energy swords or send in the wolves.

In the top left-hand panel of the scan I linked to you can see he puts that barrier up with one hand. Later he puts his mask on and uses both hands to strengthen it. I'm saying Hachi should be able to throw an arm up and produce a barrier in the time Shunsui dodges.

.

[El Samurai Guapo]

When you said react to his insane speeds I was thinking Starrk himself sonido-ing and attacking Hachi. I do think Hachi can react to an incoming cero(s)

[CeroOskuraz]

Stark's cero is logically faster than he is. If he can't react to Stark how's he going to react to an instant cero?

Or better yet, a combination of Sonido and then cero?

[El Samurai Guapo]

Logically it should be faster (it should be light-speed right?), but in bleach pretty much everyone reacts to ceros. When Starrk moves he completely disappears from people's sight. Shunsui was quick enough to dodge some of his ceros, but he couldn't react to Starrk's speed even when he was heavily injured. Likewise Love was able to block Starrk's ceros, but had Starrk himself disappear right underneath him when he tried to hit him with Hifuki no Kozuchi. Also, although Hachi himself may be slow, this doesn't mean his reaction time is; it could be superior to Shunsui's for all we know.

[CeroOskuraz]

I don't want to be rude to you, but do you realize what you just said? Logically everyone reacts to ceros in Bleach. First of all, that's not true at all, and second, even if it were it'd be an anecdotal fallacy because now you're trying to extrapolate it for Hachi's case.

Also, obviously Hachi doesn't have Shunsui type reactions. But even if he does I can still pull out that quote you made earlier.

No, but Starrk's speed isn't too much of a factor if all he's doing is spamming ceros. Once he realizes Hachi will just block them all with barriers he'll either break out his energy swords or send in the wolves.

[El Samurai Guapo]

Again, Starrk's speed ≠ cero speed. In the very same quote of mine you keep bringing up, why do you think I said "...Starrk's speed isn't too much of a factor if all he's doing is spamming ceros"?

"...pretty much everyone reacts to ceros."

Actually yeah it is true. You can go through the manga and find maybe one or two examples where a character didn't, but that's exactly why I said "pretty much everyone." In the vast majority of the cases, individuals have reacting to an incoming cero in some way or another, whether it be dodging, firing their own cero into it, stopping it with their hand, absorbing it, etc.

Also, obviously Hachi doesn't have Shunsui type reactions.

???

Where was that made obvious?


I don't know why it's such a stretch to believe he could put a barrier in front of him and block ceros coming directly at him.

[CeroOskuraz]

It's not true, and it's definitely not only "one or two" people failing to react and do anything to ceros. I don't feel like pulling out some of the more obscure panels but...

http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html

http://www.mangareader.net/94-812-15...apter-358.html

http://www.mangareader.net/94-725-10...apter-271.html

http://www.mangareader.net/94-733-17...apter-279.html

Tons more where that came from

These are the Primera's ceros, the fastest and the strongest of them all (cept for Yammy's) no less.

And dude, come on. Hachi having Shunsui reactions? He's a former VC Visored with terrible physique and he has the reactions of one of the strongest Captains in the Gotei? No.

[El Samurai Guapo]

It's not true, and it's definitely not only "one or two" people failing to react and do anything to ceros. I don't feel like pulling out some of the more obscure panels but...

http://www.mangareader.net/94-7112-1...apter-362.html

http://www.mangareader.net/94-812-15...apter-358.html

http://www.mangareader.net/94-725-10...apter-271.html

http://www.mangareader.net/94-733-17...apter-279.html

Tons more where that came from

Most of those you linked to I count as reactions (partial-hits). Only one there that's definitely lacks any sort of reaction is the one with Ichigo standing there and taking Ulquiorra's cero—which is actually one of the ones I had in mind along with the first cero oscuras.

These are the Primera's ceros, the fastest and the strongest of them all (cept for Yammy's) no less.

That really needs a citation, especially the bit about speed. Starrk could fire them instantaneously, if that's what you're referring to, but there's no indication of the actual cero's movement speed being quicker than others. And this is all moot anyways because I was talking about Starrk's movement speed, not his ceros.

And dude, come on. Hachi having Shunsui reactions? He's a former VC Visored with terrible physique and he has the reactions of one of the strongest Captains in the Gotei? No.

So basically you're just going by his aesthetics? I'd partially buy that (even though LOLomaeda) if we were talking about his movement speed here and not his ability to simply put a barrier up in front of him.

Hachi is the former vice commander of the Kidou corps (meaning second highest ranking of the entire organization), which I hope you're not trying to suggest is the equivalent of being the vice-captain of any given gotei 13 squad. Not to mention that was over a century ago and prior to him becoming a hybrid.