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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Aizen

    69 53.08%
  • Urahara

    61 46.92%
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Thread: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

  1. #196
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Exacta

    Now you're getting it. Hence why Yammy said "There's no way", and Kisuke said "Don't believe me? I guess I'll demonstrate it again"...
    Oh man, now I'm confused

    If Urahara's second blast = Yammi's cero in terms of strength then why the heck did he have the "wide eye expression" when Ulq deflected it so easily I mean it shouldn't have been surprising if Ulq had more reiatsu and acted like a bossman from the beginning?
    man that scene sucks
    <hr noshade size="1">
    EDIT: anyway, Urahara still has to demonstrate the potency of cutting through Bankais with little-to-no effort, until then the opinion that Aizen is stronger stands.
    Last edited by AlB; March 30, 2011 at 01:33 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. #197
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member emanresu's Avatar
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Aizen without hougyoku would get killed by Urahara in an instant. With KS he may survive, in base.. its an absolute beating by base Urahara.

    If by activating shikai means increase in damage (as mentioned by AIB) . Then base Urahara with sealed zanpaktou shooting thru shinigami Aizen's body is quite a feat. By activating his shikai mode, using (to a calibre/prowess similar to Juzustunagi), he would easily finish off fodders like yammy n ulqi.

  3. #198
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    The hell is Juzustunagi ?

    And if that was the case emanresu I don't see why Urahara did not show up in FKT from the beginning.

  4. #199
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by AlB View Post
    Oh man, now I'm confused

    If Urahara's second blast = Yammi's cero in terms of strength then why the heck did he have the "wide eye expression" when Ulq deflected it so easily I mean it shouldn't have been surprising if Ulq had more reiatsu and acted like a bossman from the beginning?
    man that scene sucks
    Aren't people always surprised when someone interrupts their actions? Byakuya does that quite alot

    Even Gin did it here

    Doesn't mean the person doing it is more powerful


    Quote Originally Posted by AlB View Post
    The hell is Juzustunagi ?
    What he used on Condom Aizen
    Last edited by Buzz Killington; March 30, 2011 at 01:37 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  6. #200
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    oh that, can never get those damn names right

    and yeah, you have a point, those wide-eye expressions are waay overused

  7. #201
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Page356's Avatar
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    We haven't seen either guy with released bankai's, but from what we've seen I say Urahara.

    While we do not know how much stronger he is compared to Aizen, it's obvious that if he can withstand brute force attacks from god-Aizen without being seriously injured that he must be at least equal to Aizen's base state.

    Next let's take KS. If Urahara really is stronger than Aizen, then he can simply do what Kenpachi did when he fought that blind dude and what Yammato did with Aizen. If you can't completely trust your senses then just wait til the weaker dude hits you and grab him. Doesn't make sense? I don't think so either but it's already proven to work in the manga both of those times. The way everyone battles in Bleach Urahara will have more than enough time to figure out what KS is without dying anyway, and who knows the endless possiblities there are to get around it.

    Finally let's take Ichigo's power. He went from shit to captain level in less than a year. Urahara invented those training techniques himself and has a 100 year head start on Ichigo. Obviously I don't think he's 100 times as powerful as Ichigo, but just imagine what Ichigo would be like in 100 years. Ichigo barely survived his training and since Urahara did the same in about the same amount of time so he must have some of the same sort of logrithmic power growth.

    Does Aizen have tricks and secret training like this? I don't know, but probably not. Why the hell would he? He said he had gotten as powerful as he could get a long time ago yet was still afraid of Yammato's brute strength while not in god mode and took a longer time to defeat Urahara and Isshin in god mode than it took him to defeat all the other captains in regular mode.

    I can understand someone saying Urahara or that they simpy don't know from the evidence given but otherwise you have to be under KS yourself to vote for Aizen.

  8. #202
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackk View Post
    Did you even read what I posted? The word "comparable" is NOT in the original text...



    It's obvious that he was joking. Or is he really just a poor candy store owner? Heck no. He's a captain level shinigami as well, to say the least. The guy even made a similar statement when he denied having Bankai; he said that there was no way that a mere handsome, perverted, businessman like himself would have Bankai. He also toyed with Yami and made a joke. Kisuke even sent Ichigo a message with blood as a joke, and there are even more scenes I can link to that show him being modest and/or speaking in a jokingly manner.

    Heck Kisuke is the guy who was already at captain level keeping up with Yoruichi (they were training partners since they were young and trained everyday in order to help each other get stronger) as a freaking third seat officer of the Gotei 13's second squad. Nobody knew about Kisuke's power until Yoruichi recommended him for the new captain position that had opened up. Kisuke even built their underground training ground in secret, and according to Yoruichi...Kisuke always took things over the top when it was a secret.



    Really?

    Yet Kisuke was able to react to Aizen's shunpo, in FKT, and managed to fool him with the portable gigai. Then he proceeded to restrain him with several binding kido spells in quick succession-- which uses Kisuke's reiatsu. Aizen also seemingly got worried when he realized that Kisuke was about to use a fully powered hadou 91 on him, and Aizen didn't want to get hit by it as evident by Aizen's facial expression and him making this statement: "Think I'll let you use that hadou?" to which Kisuke simply says: "Too slow." http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...5-page-13.html

    Further, there's even the fact that in the FKT fight against Chrysalis Aizen.... Kisuke was able to detect, and warn Yoruichi about Aizen coming out and on his way to attack her http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...6-page-17.html ...Kisuke even tanked an attack from Chrysalis Aizen. Heck chrysalis Aizen actually used his hand to slash Kisuke and make him lose blood, but again, that attack didn't take Kisuke down. Further, we even saw that the attack that Chrysalis Aizen used to knock down Kisuke, Yoruichi, and Isshin...didn't actually do a whole lot of damage to Kisuke. We know that Kisuke got up some unknown time after Isshin, and he later went to SS most likely to help Ichigo, and definitely to make sure that his seal activated on Aizen. We saw that Kisuke mostly just had some bruises that don't mean a whole lot in Bleach. Kisuke's clothes weren't even torn; he looked fine. http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...4-page-15.html

    Heck Kisuke even blocked an attack from chrysalis aizen, and then trapped him with a chain from one side (Isshin trapped Aizen with a chain on the other side). How could Kisuke do that if he was as weak as you claim?

    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...3/page011.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...3/page012.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Bleach/ch...3/page013.html

    Even Kisuke's Juzutsunagi shikai tech was able to do some damage to chrysalis Aizen. Granted Juzutsunagi did nothing severe;however, base Aizen is weaker than chrysalis/cocoon Aizen.

    Battles in Bleach are battles of reiatsu; that has been stated in the manga several times. I believe the fact that Kisuke was able to put the performance that he did against Aizen certainly lends to the credibility of Aizen's statement. In other words, Kisuke being roughly equal in power to base Aizen.

    Not to mention how interesting the following is:

    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...9-page-14.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-51305-...apter-402.html
    cnet128 translated it as "comparable", sometimes literal text in the passage does not hold literal meaning.

    He was obviously joking? Sure. If you like to think of it as such. IMO, he wasn't.
    The two statements are completely different: not possessing bankai = lie. Being a candy store owner = truth. Urahara making jokes previously doesn't mean he'll joke every time afterwards.


    As for the rest of your post, Aizen was simply toying around with everyone and being extremely careless for the whole duration of the FKK town fight. Therefore, any feats/minor feats accomplished by his opponents are simply circumstantial. The instant Aizen finally got serious, Urahara, Yoruichi, Isshin were instantly KO-ed. Not to mention, it was 3-on-1. He's faster, stronger, and simply more powerful than the likes of Urahara: example: cutting Komamura's bankai with a sealed sword

    As for not being able to dodge that 91 level kido, he was already restrained by a couple of other kido. Purely circumstantial .

    Urahara has shown no comparable feats. Also, I hold Aizen was having little to no credibility when "estimating" one's power. Hence, the statement "Urahara was my equal" as you say, is IMO, null and void (holds little credibility).

    Why I doubt Aizen's credibility?

    1) He's not omniscient. Doesn't know anything and everything about anyone and everyone.
    2) Has not even witnessed 80-90% of Urahara's power (bankai)
    3) Has been proven wrong on multiple occasions before when he attempted to "estimate" one's power, including, but not limited to his own subordinates
    4) Urahara declares that Aizen is giving him too much credit
    5) Per 1,2,3,4: Aizen stating that Urahara was/is his equal = nothing but nonsense. Thus, why the word "comparable" holds much more sense to me and the whole notion that Aizen was comparing different realms of power, i.e. shinigami vs. beyond shinigami since Aizen had surpassed it for the first time when he spoke of the above line.

    Aizen wins very easily.
    Last edited by LucyBenard; March 30, 2011 at 11:17 AM.

  9. #203
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    I don't know who told you 80-90% of a Shinigami's power comes from their bankai. If a bankai was all it took to make a shinigami strong, then why do Renji and Ikkaku pale in comparison to other bankai users? Oh yeah, it's 'cause their stats are a lot lower. Aizen doesn't need to witness Kisuke's bankai to get a good idea of how powerful he is. In fact, when Aizen said they were equals I doubt he was referring to zanpakutou abilities either, it's more likely he was talking about base skills in the 4 shinigami areas. In other words, if they were to both clash together with sealed katanas, they would have been evenly matched. Everyone knows damn well that including zanpakutous Aizen has the clear advantage over everyone because of how stupidly broken KS is.

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  11. #204
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    I don't know who told you 80-90% of a Shinigami's power comes from their bankai. If a bankai was all it took to make a shinigami strong, then why do Renji and Ikkaku pale in comparison to other bankai users? Oh yeah, it's 'cause their stats are a lot lower. Aizen doesn't need to witness Kisuke's bankai to get a good idea of how powerful he is. In fact, when Aizen said they were equals I doubt he was referring to zanpakutou abilities either, it's more likely he was talking about base skills in the 4 shinigami areas. In other words, if they were to both clash together with sealed katanas, they would have been evenly matched. Everyone knows damn well that including zanpakutous Aizen has the clear advantage over everyone because of how stupidly broken KS is.
    Wasn't it stated that Bankai gives a 5x-10x power boost over Shikai

    As for your interpretation, are you implying that Aizen somehow magically knows the full extent of Urahara's base skills and is so sure about their extent, that they are exactly equal to his?

    Aizen only witnessed Urahara fighting against Yammy, in which Urahara was toying around. Nothing can be inferred about the true extent of his powers from such a farce of a fight.

    Aizen isn't omniscient, and from what we've witnessed in the manga, he has a poor record when it comes to estimating people's powers.

    That is why I'll take Aizen's statement with a healthy dose of salt.

    But then again, that "equal to" is actually "comparable" in cnet128's translation. IMO, that's more valid as Aizen was referring to the massive power difference between shinigami vs. shinigami that have surpassed their limits.

  12. #205
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by LucyBenard View Post
    Wasn't it stated that Bankai gives a 5x-10x power boost over Shikai

    As for your interpretation, are you implying that Aizen somehow magically knows the full extent of Urahara's base skills and is so sure about their extent, that they are exactly equal to his?

    Aizen only witnessed Urahara fighting against Yammy, in which Urahara was toying around. Nothing can be inferred about the true extent of his powers from such a farce of a fight.

    Aizen isn't omniscient, and from what we've witnessed in the manga, he has a poor record when it comes to estimating people's powers.

    That is why I'll take Aizen's statement with a healthy dose of salt.

    But then again, that "equal to" is actually "comparable" in cnet128's translation. IMO, that's more valid as Aizen was referring to the massive power difference between shinigami vs. shinigami that have surpassed their limits.
    I believe Aizen had pretty much the whole of SS under surveillance for some time - I mean with everyone under the influence of KS, it wouldn't have been too hard. He had Ichigo under surveillance the whole time - why not Urahara? He certainly considered him a threat, be it solely due to his superior intellect or otherwise. So I would take Aizen's assessment of Urahara's powers over Yama's assessment any day.

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  14. #206
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    I believe Aizen had pretty much the whole of SS under surveillance for some time - I mean with everyone under the influence of KS, it wouldn't have been too hard. He had Ichigo under surveillance the whole time - why not Urahara? He certainly considered him a threat, be it solely due to his superior intellect or otherwise. So I would take Aizen's assessment of Urahara's powers over Yama's assessment any day.
    Based on pure speculation. Aizen had Ichigo under surveillance for the simple fact that Ichigo fought 5-10 battles ever since SS arc which were directly reported to Aizen. What did Urahara do? Get expelled from SS a 100 years ago and run a candy shop.

    No action except the Yammy fight, in which he was toying around.

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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by LucyBenard View Post
    Based on pure speculation. Aizen had Ichigo under surveillance for the simple fact that Ichigo fought 5-10 battles ever since SS arc which were directly reported to Aizen. What did Urahara do? Get expelled from SS a 100 years ago and run a candy shop.

    No action except the Yammy fight, in which he was toying around.
    I meant while he was still in SS, I'm sure he would have done something to demonstrate his powers during this time.

  16. #208
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    I meant while he was still in SS, I'm sure he would have done something to demonstrate his powers during this time.
    First, you are speculating that:

    1-Aizen "somehow" and "some where" was able to witness Urahara's power while they were in SS - no such proof in the manga
    2-Urahara's power remained exactly the same for the past 100 years.

  17. #209
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by LucyBenard View Post
    First, you are speculating that:

    1-Aizen "somehow" and "some where" was able to witness Urahara's power while they were in SS - no such proof in the manga
    2-Urahara's power remained exactly the same for the past 100 years.
    Well, it's clear that Aizen did have Urahara under surveillance based on his knowledge of Urahara's Hogyoku etc, so that he had more than just his research under surveillance isn't too large a logical step to make. I also believe he could have had him under surveillance after he left SS, although there is less evidence for this. However I believe he did observe Urahara's skills at least to some extent - enough to realize he was a threat.

  18. #210
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Aizen Sōsuke vs Urahara Kisuke

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    Well, it's clear that Aizen did have Urahara under surveillance based on his knowledge of Urahara's Hogyoku etc, so that he had more than just his research under surveillance isn't too large a logical step to make. I also believe he could have had him under surveillance after he left SS, although there is less evidence for this. However I believe he did observe Urahara's skills at least to some extent - enough to realize he was a threat.
    That's true. But having Urahara's research under surveillance =/= having his power and abilities under surveillance. As the manga suggests, Urahara spent most if not all of his time establishing/developing and recruiting scientists for Shinigami Research & Development Institution.

    Thus, Aizen witnessing his powers is nothing but speculation to the highest level.

    As for Aizen knowing Urahara's location after he had gotten expelled, not sure about that. I thought Aizen only to came to know of the Hōgyoku when it made contact with Rukia, a 100 years later.
    Last edited by LucyBenard; March 30, 2011 at 02:39 PM.

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