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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
Anyway, I don't know what's up with this idea that if Aizen beats something, it must suck. Aizen beat Sakanade, he beat Suzumabachi, and now these two characters are forced to suffer the same fate of having their abilities labeled as worthless.
Shinji with his sealed sword seemed better than Ichigo in Bankai. He easily evaded Grimmjow's attacks, as opposed to being absolutely beat down by a guy just toying with you. Shinji, and Captains in general, fight greater opponents and make due with less. Ichigo beat Stark and Yammy, which was ridiculous because it was based on a story transformation with an indeterminable amount of power. Neither of those guys had a hax counter, Shinji does. Sakanade would be difficult as hell to handle for a competent opponent, let alone OOOHHHHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! <- this guy
Fan club? No. I already made my point about Sakanade in the Kenpachi vs Shinji thread.
I actually voted for Ichigo. Shinji may have a hax shikai, but what has it done? Cut a fake Aizen on the shoulder? SS Ichigo was as fast as Byakuya- and could swat away every petal sent his way. Post Ulquiorra Ichigo definitely gained power as well. There's no way Shinji could win if Ichigo is in the right state of mind an using what he has in his arsenal, even if it seems like it's just one move, GT- he's still skilled enough to go on and fight against people he really should have had no chance against.
Shinji has what, a cero and sakanade? I could say Ichigo has a better mask, can use it longer, has a ranged attack thats better than a cero, is technically faster (see Byakuya fight) is probably as strong or stronger, fought Grimmjaw (who actually had two arms, not 1), tried to fight Nnoitra, without even being healed, went on to try and fight Ulquiorra (who batted away an attack from Benihime with one hand, but had trouble holding a GT with two), lost but still gave it his all. Eventually found a form worthy of a main character (hollow Ichigo) and beat Ulquiorra, came back after that without healing and fought #0 Yammi... not to mention the guy holds bankai for weeks at a time it seems. People say he's weak, he's slow, he's this and that- he's not. While I may not like him, he'll beat someone like Shinji. It doesn't matter how hax Sakanade is, he's dealt with hax, he's dealt with extreme power, he's dealt with speed, he's dealt with everything Shinji could hope for to win. I don't think Sakanade is that hard of an ability to counter. Weve had one instant of it, working against a fake version of Aizen. And that cero? Wow, it hurt Grimmjaw, but in reality, Ichigo's GT's were the real factor. That was against SEALED Grimmjaw mind you, with ONE ARM. So is that cero going to really do much to Ichigo? Who took cero oskuras the same way Grimm did with Shinji's? IMO Ulquiorra would be too much for Shinji. Just in his first form. Ichigo did well to even survive that long with an immature bankai + mask. Which we HAVE NOT seen from any vizard. Only shikai + mask.
I don't think I need to present arguments. There pointless, I believe Ichigo would take this one by merit. Not voting Ichigo because I think Shinji is weak. I just think he's hyped up for some reason. The only thing I really see from him is his reversing things in Sakanade, but that doesn't increase his attack power. Even if he puts on mask, Ichigo has one as well. The guy was fast enough to react to Gin's bankai, and still hit him with a GT. I don't think reacting to something being reversed is out of mind for Ichigo. He may not be the best at everything, but he's good enough at everything.
Last edited by freshseth83; March 28, 2011 at 02:36 PM.
Sakanade is far FAR from being child's play.
Ichigo is dumb as an ass...
He would get so confuse that he would probably stab himself by mistake.
Seriously, Shinji win this hands down.
For once, Getsuga Tensho wouldn't be able to do anything against it.
Even if Ichigo would spam GT like he always does, he wouldn't be able to do it in the right way, because he isn't intelligent enough to decode the technique and understand how to counter it.
ichigo is no where near as dumb as people think .
he is quite smart in battle..renji fight counting the swings, gin analyze his speed and reaction.
but ichigo wont deduce Sakanade in time before he is badly hurt from shinji going insane on him.
it not that shinji is stronger then ichigo it just shinji as superior ability of a shikai that he can use
As for Shinji's Shikai, Ichigo may have a hard time countering it. But I believe that Hollow Ichigo will shred Shinji to shreds. He's on a whole different level. Magnitudes faster and stronger than Ichigo as evidenced by the Ulquiorra fight. Not to mention, he's not a "mindless berserk" as some have labeled him as such. He has the battle instinct. For example, evaded R2 Ulquiorra's Lanza del Relámpago, which is basically a nuke missile, than stand there and take it on.
Hollow Ichigo's battle abilities need not be that of Aizen. To Aizen, Shinji's hax shikai was nothing more than a joke. To Hollow Ichigo, it might take him longer to figure it out, but coupled with his instant high speed regeneration, Shinji is an easy opponent.
Last edited by LucyBenard; March 28, 2011 at 02:52 PM.
So when he sees shinji coming from one direction but gets hit in the opposite direction, he'll not be able to tell that things are backwards? lol@that one. Come on now, no one is that stupid. Everyone uses a mirror to comb there hair. If you really think about it, that's what Shinji is, a mirror. In Sakanade everything is reversed like he said. How is that hard to counter after the first strike if he's paying close attention? Ichigo hasn't shown himself to be 'stupid as an ass'. He may be stubborn, but that's not stupid.
He died before his last fight with Ulquiorra.
Ulquiorra killed him before, remember?
Grimmjow stormed him, kidnapped Orohime and she brought him back to life by "rejecting" his death.
I didn't see the Hollow took over that time.
So, even dying isn't a 100% sure shot that Hollow Ichigo would appear.
People are just counting Ichigonator has if it was something that would occur in every battle.
The only thing that triggered it, IMO, was that Orohime was there, and was crying, and that's what brought him back.
That's why, he was a mindless beast with the only purpose of "protecting her".
In a 1 on 1, when Orohime is not in danger (like in this tournament!!!), Ichigo would most likely never be able to even trigger Ichigonator.
Re-read the part where Aizen fight him.
Everything is reversed.
If he looks at his left, he's actually looking at his right.
If he sees Shinji coming at him from the right, that means that he's coming from the left.
If he try to slash him from the left, he will actually be slashing from the right.
EVERYTHING is reversed.
There's just no way that a regular guy like Ichigo would understand that in the heat of the moment.
You need to be really really intelligent like Aizen, or Urahara.
Last edited by THM Nindo; March 28, 2011 at 03:04 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Inoue just rejected Ulquiorra reiatsu. Re-read those panels.
Nope. Hollow Ichigo has already said in Chapter 222 that he'd be back to take control if Ichigo let him. That'll happen everytime.
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Ichigo had Gin's bankai figured out after one attack:
He's not as dumb as everyone here is making him out to be. Hollow Ichigo is on a whole another level nonetheless.
Last edited by LucyBenard; March 28, 2011 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
You completely missed the point where Shinji clearly explains that even if your able to figure out how his shikai works you still would be at a major disadvantage due to the fact that your body will still fight by reflexes alone.
Even in the chance that Ichigo is somehow able to figure this out without him not already being dead by then he still will have a VERY difficult time adjusting his normal reflexes to counter such an attack.
This shikai would pretty much be a MAJOR problem for anyone besides Aizen himself.
As for the speculation that Ichigo would not be able to manage Sakanade, works out both ways for me I guess, as Hollow Ichigo will be up next.