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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
I think to have the slightest hope of beating Yama a character must either (a) Be better than Yama in a specific ability such as Kido or Speed, or (b) Have an extremely hax ability which provides you with some kind of defense against his immense power.
Despite being one of the top Shinigami with very well rounded abilities, Shunsui doesn't outclass Yama in a single one, and despite his Shikai being reasonably hax, it offers him no improved defensive abilities such as Shinji or Aizen's Shikais (by defensive in these cases I mean fooling the senses to allow for easier evasion of Yama's attacks).
However, if anyone comes up with something to give Shunsui a chance I'd gladly hear it
I think his shikai has a random element that might be worth discussing. The games are quite tricky, and according to the databook stats, Yamamoto's only weakness seems to be his stamina. So, wearing him down might be a viable option.
Shunsui might have a chance to hurt yamma with Irooni...unfortunetly, yamma seems to like taking off his cloths as soon as any fight begins XD
First Shunsui wiping out wolves, and now Starrk hiding in the shadows? Now that we won't see current Bleac won't be animated for a while, maybe catching some of these episodes wouldn't be a bad idea..seems entertaining..
Anyway the only chance Shunsui has is a slight one at best, which is courtesy of the color game. Say for whatever reason, the game is activated off the bat and a frustrated Yamamoto decides to use EJ. Would Shunsui be immune to those flames due to the fact that he's only susceptible to whatever Yamamoto calls?
Again this is the only feasible shot I see Shunsui having. This would be at least a debate if Ukitake was around but he was taken out of the tournament..by Yamamoto. And in the series, Shunsui and Ukitake were only seen struggling against..Yamamoto..
Yamamoto wins. That much is obvious to me.
Although I wish quite sincerely that I could come up with an argument for Shunsui.
That would make this a lot more fun.
Last edited by leshrak; March 30, 2011 at 09:50 PM.
I agree with Tsukisama, let's make this battle a little bit more interesting
I think Shunsui's two most dangerous games are:
Kageoni and Irooni. Assuming that Shunsui's Katen Kyōkotsu will be in the mood, Yamamoto will be forced to play by the rules of these games since anyone who steps within the boundaries of Katen Kyōkotsu's spiritual pressure will forced to play by the rules
In Kageoni, whoever gets their shadow stepped on loses. Since Yamamoto will not have any idea of Shunsui's abilities, that's an easy one for Shunsui. He'll simply step on Yamamoto's shadow and call out Kageoni. Now that he has done that, Shunsui will be able to hide himself in the shadows or attack Yamamoto by manipulating the shadow he is currently standing upon into a weapon.
So the real question in this case is: Is Yamamoto perceptive and fast enough to see the weapon coming out of the shadow and avoid contact? Also, does Yamamoto have the intellect to infer such an ability just in time before Shunsui executes it?
As for Irooni, Shunsui will start out by calling a color and attempt to hit Yamamoto, but Shunsui could also suffer serious damage if he is struck by Yamamoto in return.
So the real question here is: Will Yamamoto allow himself to be hit by Shunsui, if not, then Shunsui will not be able to deliver any damage
I don't think so. Stark has shown the casual ability to tank Bushogoma and then interrupt Takaoni with a cero. Escaping Kageoni is a simple matter of jumping, or actually even just reacting the the sword strike. And Irooni is a double edged sword no matter how you look at it. The best Shunsui can hope for with Irooni is to stall and make it so that neither combatant takes damage until one outlasts the other...
I am inclined to believe that Wonderweiss is more resilient than Shunsui considering how he has high speed regeneration and a strong hierro (he was able to pierce Ukitake's chest with ease and grabbed hold of Yamamoto's Zanpakutō's blade as it was swung at him while sustaining no injury).
So really, one hit from Yamamoto, and Shunsui is a goner.
So Yama makes a shadow, Shunsui jumps in it and stabs him. While this may hurt Yama, he's able to tank lots of swords- like Aizen stabbing him in the gut. Then proceeded to get on with destroying WW with his hands. But Shunsui being Yama's student, I'm sure he's fairly capable himself. He did tank a few shots of his own. A direct shot to the back from Starrk's cero, another cero caught his arm but didn't have much effect either. He also took a shot right to the back from Starrk in the color game, the strongest attack. Then Aizen took him down with the other captains with the KS involving Momo.
Shunsui won't lose off the bat. I think he'll put up a decent fight. But no one on their own can beat Yama. Only if Shunsui had shown some super form of bankai! Kubo obviously let that wait for the future tho! I'm going to call this the best fight there is here. I think Shunsui has the tools to fight against Yama, his tricks with the shadow would work wonders here if he stays close to the ground, or other objects. Bushogoma might even distract Yama for enough time for shunsui to get a good position to fight him on even terms. Plus he didn't get fried when he fought against him with Juushiro. Of course that wasn't by himself, but I still say he stands a decent chance of doing significant damage over the course of a fight.
Last edited by cloudo; March 30, 2011 at 10:20 PM.
I think Shunsui has a shot at this, but I don't think he would be able to last long enough to take advantage of Yama's low stanima. IMO shunsui would have take a high risk strategy.
Maybe Shunsui can fake defeat to create an opening, than put all of power in one attack and strike while Yama's guard is down. I thought a couple scenarios this might work but it seems like a long shot.
I'm having some horrific images in my mind of Shunsui being reduced to a bloody smear, after seeing what happened with WW. But Yama would just cut him in half instead probably. His Shi Kai has great powers but isn't dependable. It had better be in the mood right off the bat or he's dead in a flash. Even so he's gonna be dead anyway. The only reason he's even alive right now is that Yama didn't REALLY want to kill him back in SS. That standoff showed little but told us a lot.
I have seen some posters mention Yamamoto's stamina as a weak point since the databook gives him a 60/100 on it.
However, it is irrelevant because those statistics reflect one's own shinigami limit.
For example, the databook gives both Shunsui and Yamamoto a perfect 100 for Kido/Reiatsu. But as we all know, Yamamoto's Kido/Reiatsu is far superior to Shunsui's.
What am I getting at is: Yamamoto's stamina being at 60 might still be greater than Shunsui's 70, since each shinigami has a different limit.
The only thing is WW tried to use Brute Force. Shunsui is cunning and not a stupid animal! WW was that, he didn't use any logic and didn't try to fight smart! He did nothing of that sort, Shunsui is not stupid, and even Yama admitted that he has the ability to see to the truth of an opponent, better than anyone. Like how he could tell Starrk was lying about his guns. He knew they had more to them than just shooting ceros. The guns ended up being turned into the wolves! Because that was Lillynette. I still say Shunsui has a good chance here. Even if yama rips off his shirt- he still wears black. And if reiatsu could cancel out any ability, why didn't it cancel out KS from Aizen? So I still think Irooni (colors) could be played and would be played.