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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Shunsui

    66 55.00%
  • Shinji

    54 45.00%
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Thread: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

  1. #181
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member shuha27's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Just because it takes 30 seconds in the anime doesn't mean thats how long it takes for it to work. I believe Shinji started spinning his Shikai to spread the smell more effectively. Regardless of it spinning, it still maintains to secrete the smell.

  2. #182
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by shuha27 View Post
    Just because it takes 30 seconds in the anime doesn't mean thats how long it takes for it to work. I believe Shinji started spinning his Shikai to spread the smell more effectively. Regardless of it spinning, it still maintains to secrete the smell.
    True. It could take 60 seconds. All we know is that the following dialogue was carried between Aizen and Shinji while Shinji was spinning his sword; in fact, Shinji was already spinning his sword for some time before the dialogue took place in chapter 387:

    Aizen: ...An intriguing shape for a sword.
    Hirako: Ya like it, huh? // Too bad. It's mine.
    Aizen: However... / I fail to sense any noticeable kind of change. // I thought you claimed your blade could control another's nervous system?
    Shinji: You think nothing's changed? // Well, you're dead wrong. / It already has. // Hmmmmm~~~~~? // What's this~~~~?

    6
    Shinji: Don'tcha think something smells real good? // No point holdin' your breath now. It's too late. // Welcome...

    7
    Shinji: ...to my upside-down world.



    In a normal conversation, that's easily over 30+ seconds of sword spinning.

  3. #183
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member shuha27's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by LucyBenard View Post
    True. It could take 60 seconds. All we know is that the following dialogue was carried between Aizen and Shinji while Shinji was spinning his sword; in fact, Shinji was already spinning his sword for some time before the dialogue took place in chapter 387:

    Aizen: ...An intriguing shape for a sword.
    Hirako: Ya like it, huh? // Too bad. It's mine.
    Aizen: However... / I fail to sense any noticeable kind of change. // I thought you claimed your blade could control another's nervous system?
    Shinji: You think nothing's changed? // Well, you're dead wrong. / It already has. // Hmmmmm~~~~~? // What's this~~~~?

    6
    Shinji: Don'tcha think something smells real good? // No point holdin' your breath now. It's too late. // Welcome...

    7
    Shinji: ...to my upside-down world.



    In a normal conversation, that's easily over 30+ seconds of sword spinning.
    Your just basing everything off of assumption. What your saying has no proof or fact into it.

  4. #184
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by shuha27 View Post
    Your just basing everything off of assumption. What your saying has no proof or fact into it.
    Moreover, notice how Aizen says this midway in the dialogue (Shinji was already spinning his sword for at least 20 seconds judging from the manga panels)

    I fail to sense any noticeable kind of change.

    If the mist creation/initiation was instantaneous, Aizen would have noticed a change, as he was standing only ~20 feets away.

    This pretty much proves that the sword has to be spun for an X amount of time before the mist can be created; then the mist must be spread around.

  5. #185
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member locke002paul's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Okay man, have it your way. I'm sure everyone follows the version you have stated. You ignore what I said. That's way Shinji used his Shikai against Aizen doesn't mean that is the only way it can be used. I'm not going to argue anymore. Believe what you want. But don't say it as if it is fact or canon. It isn't. The discussion started when you said Grimmjow could prevent his shikai thinking that Shinji can only release his Sakanade the way he did with Aizen. For which I already brought arguments, assuming your interpretation was true.

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  7. #186
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Oh, so now people are saying that Shinji won't be able to get shunsui under his Shikai?
    Whatever, I'm not even wasting my time to argue about that.

    And for the record lucy, Ichigo's 11 second mask-limit looked more like a 25 minute limit in the anime, so if that's what you are basing your arguments around Lucy, we have nothing to talk about.

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  9. #187
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member shuha27's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    I never said the mist was instantaneous. I'm saying he spins his swords to spread it faster.....

    Your actually trying to say it would take 30 seconds for it to reach that far. Thats all an assumption and neither of us will know how long it will take.

  10. #188
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by locke002paul View Post
    Okay man, have it your way. I'm sure everyone follows the version you have stated. You ignore what I said. That's way Shinji used his Shikai against Aizen doesn't mean that is the only way it can be used. I'm not going to argue anymore. Believe what you want. But don't say it as if it is fact or canon. It isn't. The discussion started when you said Grimmjow could prevent his shikai thinking that Shinji can only release his Sakanade the way he did with Aizen. For which I already brought arguments, assuming your interpretation was true.
    By the way, as I have stated above, notice how Aizen states:

    I fail to sense any noticeable kind of change.

    when Shinji had already spun his sword for some time at that point. Thus, pretty much confirming that Shinji has to spin his sword for an X amount of time for the mist to be generated.

  11. #189
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member locke002paul's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Okay man, have it your way. I'm sure everyone follows the version you have stated. You ignore what I said. That's way Shinji used his Shikai against Aizen doesn't mean that is the only way it can be used. I'm not going to argue anymore. Believe what you want. But don't say it as if it is fact or canon. It isn't. The discussion started when you said Grimmjow could prevent his shikai thinking that Shinji can only release his Sakanade the way he did with Aizen. For which I already brought arguments, assuming your interpretation was true.

    Quote Quote:
    In a normal conversation, that's easily over 30+ seconds of sword spinning.
    Just because they talked 30 seconds, and he spinned the sword during this, doesn't mean all that time was necessary. Aizen didn't rush him, Shinji wasn't rushing either.

    I fail to sense any noticeable kind of change.
    And then Shinji said "It already has". Your point ? It means Aizen didn't think a change in smell, was a noticeable kind of change. Or maybe he didn't even acknowledge the smell until told about it. The change came when Shinji activated. I repeat myself. This is no fact. Only your intepretation.
    Last edited by locke002paul; April 08, 2011 at 02:51 AM.

  12. #190
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    @locke002paul

    Read this.

    That pretty much confirms that Shinji has to spin the sword for an X amount of time for the mist to be generated (stage 2).

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  14. #191
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    locke002paul
    Quote Quote:
    Hype, fanboy-talk, assumptions, etc. The only things we know for sure it's his Shikai's ability and it's hax factor.
    I'd say it again - it's hax only because people think that it is hax. Especially after being trasher in the manga from get-go. People try to develop this ability for Shinji, even though the actual manga doesn't suggest that it is as hax as people believe it to be.

    People see it like: "Oh, Shinji's Shikai is hax!!! It can twist twists!!!"

  15. #192
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by locke002paul View Post
    Just because they talked 30 seconds, and he spinned the sword during this, doesn't mean all that time was necessary. Aizen didn't rush him, Shinji wasn't rushing either.
    All that time was necessary, since Aizen says that he hadn't sensed any change.

    Aizen says this after Shinji had spun his sword for quite some time: I do not sense any change.

    Also, notice how Shinji finally comments that he is able to smell to mist at the bottom of page 6 on chapter 387 - that is when the mist was generated.


    Quote Originally Posted by AlB View Post
    And for the record lucy, Ichigo's 11 second mask-limit looked more like a 25 minute limit in the anime, so if that's what you are basing your arguments around Lucy, we have nothing to talk about.
    Straw man.


    Quote Originally Posted by shuha27 View Post
    I never said the mist was instantaneous. I'm saying he spins his swords to spread it faster.....

    Your actually trying to say it would take 30 seconds for it to reach that far. Thats all an assumption and neither of us will know how long it will take.
    That might be true, however, he needs to SPIN his sword for an X amount of time before ANY mist is created in the first place. Do you agree?

    I did not say that it would take it 30 seconds to get that far, that would only take few seconds; I am saying: the sword has to be spun for quite some time for any mist to be even created, let alone, be spread.
    Last edited by LucyBenard; April 08, 2011 at 02:58 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  16. #193
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member locke002paul's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    @ Jorge

    I said it has a hax factor. Or potential. It was trash in the manga because, oh well, it was only showed against Aizen who had them under KS. Who wasn't trash against that ?

    @LucyBenard
    That might be true, however, he needs to SPIN his sword for an X amount of time before ANY mist is created in the first place. Do you agree?
    It's not necessary. Just because he did this with Aizen, doesn't mean it's a prerequisite. As I said. You believe it is a part of his release. I believe he did that to cover a large area with that scent. He created quite an amount of scent, or mist if you want. Do you agree that the longer he spins the more mist he creates ? Or do you insist to say that for ANY amount of scent to be released the sword has to be spun for a long time?

    I did not say that it would take it 30 seconds to get that far, that would only take few seconds; I am saying: the sword has to be spun for quite some time for any mist to be even created, let alone, be spread.

    Even if you are right, and it's a prerequisite, you don't know if 30 seconds are necessary to create any amount of scent. As this all started from his fight against Grimmjow. Can you say for sure (with proof and facts from manga) that he needs to spin 30 seconds near Grimm just for the freakin' mist to appear ?
    Last edited by locke002paul; April 08, 2011 at 03:09 AM.

  17. #194
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    @locke002paul

    Aizen might have only suggested that KS was started to be used when Hitsugaya charged at him (After the Shinji vs. Aizen) fight. No KS was used against Shinji unless otherwise stated: innocent until proven guilty.

  18. #195
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member AlB's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by LucyBenard View Post

    Straw man.
    .
    Straw man? make sense Lucy

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