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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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  • Shunsui

    66 55.00%
  • Shinji

    54 45.00%
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Thread: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

  1. #46
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I have read the chapter. I just never saw any frame which had shinji on the run. I also never said shunsui was as dumb as a rock. I just don't think he would hold a candle to aizen in that department.
    Okay, so you have read the chapter; then answer this:

    Why did Shinji put on his mask to take on a half-dead Grimmjow? Moreover, why was he on the run while unmasked?

    Shinji on the run while unmasked from a half-dead Grimmjow

    There is a massive gap in power/speed here.


    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    ^The stats are not absolute in the least, it is just relative to shunsui. In that sense, having a 90 in intellect does not mean he is as smart as anyone else who has 90. He could have 90 in his intellect and still be a moron for the most part while someone having a mere 40 could be smarter than shunsui.
    Yes, it is relative to Shunsui; however, for someone as powerful as him, having a 90/100 score on his intellect points to one thing: he is intellectual, as we have seen in the fights. On top of which being a top ranked captain and one of the greatest as held by Yamamoto, the greatest of all.


    Your argument is very weak.


    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    Guessed is more the word. Deduced implies deduction - he saw that Starrk was a top 3 Espada and that the guns were his only weapons, so it's natural that someone of his caliber would have an ability beyond firing ceros. I really don't get why you regard this as such an intellectual feat.

    Your rules, not what is written in stone. Besides, if you don't like assumptions, let's not "assume" that Shunsui will be able to figure out and counter Sakanade when absolutely nothing indicates that he would be able to.


    Shunsui isn't Aizen - not in terms of power, not in terms of intellect. As I said before, where do you get the "minute" from, which has now become a "minute or two"?


    Tell me where you think Shinji looks like he's in trouble before he puts on his mask - he's calm the entire time.


    Continually saying that Shinji with mask is equal to Grimmjow is basically trolling. Nowhere did Shinji seem in trouble before putting on the mask, and after the mask he was able to take on Grimmjow as though he was nothing, so no - I'm not going to accept this statement as anywhere near valid.
    Nope. He outright deduced it, and was correct. What an amazing feat. Also, he scores an amazing 90/100 on the databook in the intellect department. He also deduced that Halibel was the 3rd Espada from the very beginning.

    I am not sure if your mind refuses to believe it, or your eyes refuse to see it: but Shinji was on the run from a half-dead Grimmjow and was forced to don his mask

    Shinji was on the run and dodging a half-dead Grimmjow's attacks. Not to mention, I'd say Grimmjow was at 10% of his full potential there, factor in:

    1) One arm
    2) Already injured and half dead from the beating that Ichigo had inflicted on him
    3) Was frozen once by Rukia
    4) Was unreleased

    It is a fair statement that Base Shinji while masked = 6th Espada
    Last edited by LucyBenard; April 07, 2011 at 02:32 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  2. #47
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Base vs Base Shinji would undoubtedly lose

    Masked Shinji vs Base Kyoraku he could gain an advantage, possibly.. Not banking on it though

    Shikai vs Shikai is where Shinji takes it for me. The dangers of Kyoraku's games being reflected on himself while also having Sakanade in play leads me to believe Shinji can land his blows alot easier than Shunsui could, and thus win the fight

    Shunsui could win if he activates his games without telling Shinji about them, but this is IC, and he likes to drop hints about his abilities, and Shinji has shown to be quite analytical

    Shinji takes it for me

  3. #48
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by LucyBenard View Post
    Is that so?

    Then how about the databook: One of Shunsui's highest rated areas: Intellect: 90/100
    Resorting to the databook - a premonition of an argument's early demise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    ShootToKill


    That's the spirit.)
    1. I really don't understand why everyone continue to assume that everyone in Bleach exept Urahara and Aizen are imbeciles. They are pretty much intellectual, at least the high tier Captains like Yoruichi, Shunsui, Ukitake and middle tier like Byakua. Hell, even Kenpach with his special battle instincts managed to pull a win against bigger trick like Tousen's Bankai.
    2. When you brush your teeth and look in the mirror you don't need to be Einstein.
    3. You prove me wrong with actual facts from the manga.
    Never said he was an imbecile, just not a genius either. He doesn't have the quick thinking skills to overcome multiple spatial inversions AND land a blow on Shinji in time. I'll ignore the mirror comment since it's an obvious case of drastically diminishing his ability to make your argument sound stronger. You prove to me with "facts from the manga" that Shunsui has what it takes to counter Sakanade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    It's clearly different case. Shinji really said that he wouldn't hold back. And even this attack wasn't enough to finish half-dead Grim without one hand. And it was supposed to be the strongest Shinji's attack.
    Also we do know how strong is Yama, but Shinji is not that strong as people want him to be. He practically had no fits in the manga, but people made him that strong developing his skills for him.
    Vs Grimm, pretty much all Shinji did was dodge and fire a cero, never once showing any sign of concern / fatigue. His cero almost wiped Grimm out, and considering the general lack of feats associated with ceros, that isn't too bad.
    Fact is, Shinji was a Captain 100 years ago, and has a hollow power boost. However much power this gives him, it's enough. With Sakanade, no one but Yama by virtue of raw power or someone with extraordinary quick thinking skills (Aizen) could possibly counter him. Strength doesn't play that big a part, although I believe him to be Shunsui's equal in power anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Every Shinigami has his limits and Shinji supposedly hitted his even before Hollowfication, so even with it Shinji might have not gotten that much an upgrade. Vaizards Hollowfication wasn't even as strong as Ichigo's.
    Also it isn't as Yama knows everything, but it is like Kubo speaks trough Yama and states facts.
    Seriously? You're also going down the "Yama is Kubo's voice in the manga" path? Where does this come from?


    Quote Originally Posted by LucyBenard View Post
    Okay, so you have read the chapter; then answer this:

    Why did Shinji put on his mask to take on a half-dead Grimmjow? Moreover, why was he on the run while unmasked?

    Shinji on the run while unmasked from a half-dead Grimmjow

    There is a massive gap in power/speed here.
    <hr noshade size="1">


    Yes, it is relative to Shunsui; however, for someone as powerful as him, having a 90/100 score on his intellect points to one thing: he is intellectual, as we have seen in the fights. On top of which being a top ranked captain and one of the greatest as held by Yamamoto, the greatest of all.


    Your argument is very weak.
    <hr noshade size="1">


    Nope. He outright deduced it, and was correct. What an amazing feat. Also, he scores an amazing 90/100 on the databook in the intellect department. He also deduced that Halibel was the 3rd Espada from the very beginning.

    I am not sure if your mind refuses to believe it, or your eyes refuse to see it: but Shinji was on the run from a half-dead Grimmjow and was forced to don his mask

    Shinji was on the run and dodging a half-dead Grimmjow's attacks. Not to mention, I'd say Grimmjow was at 10% of his full potential there, factor in:

    1) One arm
    2) Already injured and half dead from the beating that Ichigo had inflicted on him
    3) Was frozen once by Rukia
    4) Was unreleased

    It is a fair statement that Base Shinji while masked = 6th Espada
    Dodging =/= on the run. Even were they equal when he was unmasked (which they weren't, Shinji was still superior), when Shinji put his mask on it was no contest.
    Last edited by ShootToKill; April 07, 2011 at 02:40 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  5. #49
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    Resorting to the databook - a premonition of an argument's early demise.


    Never said he was an imbecile, just not a genius either. He doesn't have the quick thinking skills to overcome multiple spatial inversions AND land a blow on Shinji in time. I'll ignore the mirror comment since it's an obvious case of drastically diminishing his ability to make your argument sound stronger. You prove to me with "facts from the manga" that Shunsui has what it takes to counter Sakanade.


    Vs Grimm, pretty much all Shinji did was dodge and fire a cero, never once showing any sign of concern / fatigue. His cero almost wiped Grimm out, and considering the general lack of feats associated with ceros, that isn't too bad.
    Fact is, Shinji was a Captain 100 years ago, and has a hollow power boost. However much power this gives him, it's enough. With Sakanade, no one but Yama by virtue of raw power or someone with extraordinary quick thinking skills (Aizen) could possibly counter him. Strength doesn't play that big a part, although I believe him to be Shunsui's equal in power anyway.


    Seriously? You're also going down the "Yama is Kubo's voice in the manga" path? Where does this come from?
    Databook = Canon.

    That's just your Shinji over hype at work here. Shunsui is more than intellectual to toy around with Shinji's kids toy. For someone as senior and experienced as him, not to mention, someone who is held as one of the greatest by Yamamoto, to not be able to overcome such a child's game is simply a ludicrous idea.

    Shinji was not holding back against Grimmjow (Grimm was at 10% of his full power) and was forced to use a mask. He was on the run constantly while sealed. That explains why he had to put on his mask (seeing how he'd reveal his ability to Aizen too after 100 years). There is no one or two ways about it: Shinji had to use his mask.

    Shinji's cero did nothing to Grimmjow, he just got up instantly and was ready to release. In fact; it was FIGHT ON! from that moment on, if anything.

    Yamamoto is right until proven wrong. Shunsui >>>>> Shinji. Anything else is just pure fan-hype since the manga says otherwise.


    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    Dodging =/= on the run. Even were they equal when he was unmasked (which they weren't, Shinji was still superior), when Shinji put his mask on it was no contest.
    Dodging == on the run in this case, for one simple fact: Shinji put on his mask. If he could take on Grimmjow otherwise, there would have been no such need.

    Myth debunked.

    Also, you're clearly neglecting Grimmjow's handicaps here:

    1) One arm
    2) Already heavily injured and fatigued
    3) Was unreleased

    Shinji on the other hand, was 100%, Grimmjow was like 10%.
    Last edited by LucyBenard; April 07, 2011 at 02:47 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Perhaps Shunsui is not as dumb as a rock but Shinji and the rest of the masked moron patrol are and Shinji is the best of them (at being dumb, its an art to him, The art of being dumb).

    Let's see, 100 years of prep vs Aizen and you:

    1. fight him with no mask on.
    2. belive that your crep shikai can do shit to KS.
    3. Belive that your crep shikai can do shit to Aizen with no KS.
    4. Unable to take down even 1 of the espada.
    5. 2 of them owned vs 1 espada.
    6 Underestimate Aizen to a horible degree (before and after the 100 years)...

    and more but meh no point... Yes Shinji and the rest of this guys are morons. 100 years and no plan in fighting Aizen but let's show up and try to punch the guy ... Patetic.. Not even 1 Kido expecialy design to take down Aizen or tactic (Yama Ji and stabbing himself to find Aizen or Urahara and his prep). Really 100 damn years and no plan? WTF? Shinji is probably going to try to trow rocks at Shunsui... Sry but considering Shinji's intelect he has no hope here.

    Shunsui wins this just like Ken should have won this.

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  9. #51
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    ShootToKill
    Quote Quote:
    Never said he was an imbecile, just not a genius either. He doesn't have the quick thinking skills to overcome multiple spatial inversions AND land a blow on Shinji in time. I'll ignore the mirror comment since it's an obvious case of drastically diminishing his ability to make your argument sound stronger. You prove to me with "facts from the manga" that Shunsui has what it takes to counter Sakanade.
    Actually above there was a clearly good example from Databook that his intellect is 90 from 100, so he is intellectual enough to counter Sakanade. And there is nothing that can imply otherwise.
    Acually the example with the mirror was a bit of comic relief, but still it's really mostly like this.
    Also Shunsui has two swords, so of course he has counter to Shinji's ability.
    Also he can just use his Shikai first and that would be Shinji's death. Shunsui is the best in his game.

    Quote Quote:
    Vs Grimm, pretty much all Shinji did was dodge and fire a cero, never once showing any sign of concern / fatigue. His cero almost wiped Grimm out, and considering the general lack of feats associated with ceros, that isn't too bad.
    Fact is, Shinji was a Captain 100 years ago, and has a hollow power boost. However much power this gives him, it's enough. With Sakanade, no one but Yama by virtue of raw power or someone with extraordinary quick thinking skills (Aizen) could possibly counter him. Strength doesn't play that big a part, although I believe him to be Shunsui's equal in power anyway.
    1. There are different Captains. Some are like Mayuri or Tousen and some are like Shunsui and Ukitake. And he clearly wasn't at Shunsui or Ukitake's level when he was in Gotei. And during the battle in FKT his head was practically choped by sealed Tousen (Tousen is considered one of the weakest Captains on the forums), so it's pretty good fit for sealed Shinji.
    At the same time sealed Shunsui was on par with sealed Starrk (the second strongest Espada) and that's a good feat.
    Shinji has a boos with his Mask, but it is only for two minutes and he didn't show anything while sealed and without Mask to be even better than Byakuya, so even with his Mask I doubt he would be better than Shunsui, until it would be prooven by manga.

    Quote Quote:
    Seriously? You're also going down the "Yama is Kubo's voice in the manga" path? Where does this come from?
    I think it's pretty obvious. Yama doesn't speak much and only tells some usefull info like Ukitake and Shunsui being the strongest Shinigami that graduated from Shinigami Academy or that he himself is the strongest Shinigami for the last 1000 years. It was prooven to be a fact.

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  11. #52
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    How exactly is this doing "nothing?"

    Nowhere else have we seen Grimmjow so distraught, and after one attack no less. Another key point is that that wasn't even a direct hit, that was simply Grimmjow getting thrownback by the force of his own cero colliding with Shinji's. A direct hit would have likely killed him.

    Grimmjow knew after a single attack he was f*cked if he didn't use his resureccion. That's already more than can be said for Ichigo's bankai hollowfied getsuga tenshous.

    As for Shinji's intelligence, yeah he did grossly underestimate Aizen, but at least over the last 100 years he wasn't eating out of the palm of his hand like all the dimwits up in Seireitei. In fact, who was that moronic captain again? You know the one that was Aizen's alibi during Kisuke and Tessai's trial, effectively allowing Aizen to get away with framing them? Oh yeah...
    Last edited by El Samurai Guapo; April 07, 2011 at 03:00 AM.

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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    El Samurai Guapo
    Grim was already beaten pretty much by Ichigo and more important he didn't have one of his hands and got lower reiatsu, because of it, so of course it isn't a fit to beat half dead person with your strongest attack.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Prove to me Shunsui can work out and react in time to Sakanade. I would love to see you try.

    Did you see an expression of concern on Shinji's face? He was dodging Grimmjow's attacks with ease, under no threat whatsoever. Perhaps Grimm was at 10% for all I know, but that's irrelevant since he had absolutely nothing on Shinji. Shinji put on his mask either to make things even easier (like Yama vs Hallibel's fraccion) or simply as a display to the enemy showing what side the vizards were on.

    Oh, and you say that dodging = on the run? Remember this? Was Shunsui on the run from Chad?

    As for all the other stuff, I've replied to it many times yet you insist on repeating yourself ad nauseum, so I'm going to stop trying to convince you that Yama isn't omniscient etc.

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  16. #55
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    How exactly is this doing "nothing?"

    Nowhere else have we seen Grimmjow so distraught, and after one attack no less. Another key point is that that wasn't even a direct hit, that was simply Grimmjow getting thrownback by the force of his own cero colliding with Shinji's. A direct hit would have likely killed him.

    Grimmjow knew after a single attack he was f*cked if he didn't use his resureccion. That's already more than can be said for Ichigo's bankai hollowfied getsuga tenshous.

    As for Shinji's intelligence, yeah he did grossly underestimate Aizen, but at least over the last 100 years he wasn't eating out of the palm of his hand like all the dimwits up in Seireitei.
    That was nothing. Grimmjow was already beaten, fatigued (half-dead) and only had one arm. In fact, that cero got him excited as he was about to release (real fight) while still being half-dead and with one arm.
    Grimmjow was massively handicapped in that fight, whereas, Shinji was at 100%.


    Not to mention, I am not sure if you are trying to imply that "Grimmjow couldn't release because of the cero" ..... Ulquiorra simply stopped him.

    Ulquiorra there would have massacred Shinji, let me point that out.

    As for intelligence, Shinji is as dumb as they get; Shunsui is clearly a genius compared to him.


    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    Prove to me Shunsui can work out and react in time to Sakanade. I would love to see you try.

    Did you see an expression of concern on Shinji's face? He was dodging Grimmjow's attacks with ease, under no threat whatsoever. Perhaps Grimm was at 10% for all I know, but that's irrelevant since he had absolutely nothing on Shinji. Shinji put on his mask either to make things even easier (like Yama vs Hallibel's fraccion) or simply as a display to the enemy showing what side the vizards were on.

    Oh, and you say that dodging = on the run? Remember this? Was Shunsui on the run from Chad?

    As for all the other stuff, I've replied to it many times yet you insist on repeating yourself ad nauseum, so I'm going to stop trying to convince you that Yama isn't omniscient etc.
    Nothing can be "proven" to you. You just won't accept it.

    As for the Sakanade issue, Grimmjow had already demonstrated that if you rush Shinji from the instant the fight begins, he will not have the time to stand and spin his sword for a minute; as we already saw against Aizen (Aizen was chilling).

    The probability of Shinji having the time to release his Shikai uninterrupted is exponentially smaller than Shunsui simply shunping in (he's a lot faster) and trying to hack his head off.


    Also, it is pretty obvious that Aizen WANTED TO SEE what Shinji's shikai was all about, seeing how Shinji had hid it from him all that time. Aizen let Shinji do the ceremony. Shunsui will not wait a second.
    Last edited by LucyBenard; April 07, 2011 at 03:06 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    ShootToKill

    Actually above there was a clearly good example from Databook that his intellect is 90 from 100, so he is intellectual enough to counter Sakanade. And there is nothing that can imply otherwise.
    You're taking a number and interpreting that as proof that he can counter such an ability? Bleach isn't final fantasy - stat points aren't auto confirmations of abilities

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Acually the example with the mirror was a bit of comic relief, but still it's really mostly like this.
    I wasn't sure - others have made this comment before and they seemed to be serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Also Shunsui has two swords, so of course he has counter to Shinji's ability.
    Two swords swung in the wrong directions still = two misses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Also he can just use his Shikai first and that would be Shinji's death. Shunsui is the best in his game.
    It's a possiblity, but considering his Shikai has mood problems and Shinji's doesn't, it's a slim one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    1. There are different Captains. Some are like Mayuri or Tousen and some are like Shunsui and Ukitake. And he clearly wasn't at Shunsui or Ukitake's level when he was in Gotei. And during the battle in FKT his head was practically choped by sealed Tousen (Tousen is considered one of the weakest Captains on the forums), so it's pretty good fit for sealed Shinji.
    At the same time sealed Shunsui was on par with sealed Starrk (the second strongest Espada) and that's a good feat.
    Shinji has a boos with his Mask, but it is only for two minutes and he didn't show anything while sealed and without Mask to be even better than Byakuya, so even with his Mask I doubt he would be better than Shunsui, until it would be prooven by manga.


    I think it's pretty obvious. Yama doesn't speak much and only tells some usefull info like Ukitake and Shunsui being the strongest Shinigami that graduated from Shinigami Academy or that he himself is the strongest Shinigami for the last 1000 years. It was prooven to be a fact.
    It was a sneak attack from Tousen - Shinji had no idea it was coming, so it was pretty impressive, despite Tousen not being especially strong. Remember he cut Grimmjow's (yes, the same guy you and LucyBenard are saying is >= Shinji) arm off with ease, so this shows Shinji's reactions to be superior to Grimmjow's. He has also shown superior shunpo to other Captain level Shinigami in TBTP arc.

    Both sealed and with no mask, I would however say that Shunsui has the edge. Both sealed and with mask, they are about equal with Shinji being slightly ahead, and when it comes to Sakanade vs Shunsui's Shikai, Shinji takes it with ease - Shunsui doesn't have what it takes to counter it, and unless it can be proved otherwise, I believe that this should be regarded as fact.

    About Yama's comments, just because one was true, doesn't mean the other is.

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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    ShootToKill
    The same implies to you. If you believe that I'm wrong and you are right I won't be able to convince you. I don't believe that sealed Shinji is even compared to Shunsui. He might be at Byakuya's level while sealed, but not better until it would be prooven by manga.
    Also comparing Chad to Grimjow... it's a strong offense to Grimjow. In healed state with his full Reiatsu he is a considerable opponent for a Captain.

    Quote Quote:
    You're taking a number and interpreting that as proof that he can counter such an ability? Bleach isn't final fantasy - stat points aren't auto confirmations of abilities
    I'm just trying to show that he is quit intellectual person. Intelligent enough to counter everything Shinji can throw at him.

    Quote Quote:
    I wasn't sure - others have made this comment before and they seemed to be serious.
    I was trying to make an argument a bit easy. To make it less hot-tempered. Still I do believe that Shinji's ability is a bit bigger version of my comic example.

    Quote Quote:
    Two swords swung in the wrong directions still = two misses.
    Shinji can go only in one direction, so if you see him before you - slice behind you, if he is on the left - slice to the right.

    Quote Quote:
    It's a possiblity, but considering his Shikai has mood problems and Shinji's doesn't, it's a slim one.
    I believe that it wasn't Shikai that had mood problems, but Shunsui himself who had mood problems.

    Quote Quote:
    It was a sneak attack from Tousen - Shinji had no idea it was coming, so it was pretty impressive, despite Tousen not being especially strong. Remember he cut Grimmjow's (yes, the same guy you and LucyBenard are saying is >= Shinji) arm off with ease, so this shows Shinji's reactions to be superior to Grimmjow's. He has also shown superior shunpo to other Captain level Shinigami in TBTP arc.
    Shinji knew that Tousen was coming, cause every Captain can feel other's reiatsu.
    Also Tousen cut Grim's arm, bewcause Aizen was the one who let him do it.

    Quote Quote:
    Both sealed and with no mask, I would however say that Shunsui has the edge. Both sealed and with mask, they are about equal with Shinji being slightly ahead, and when it comes to Sakanade vs Shunsui's Shikai, Shinji takes it with ease - Shunsui doesn't have what it takes to counter it, and unless it can be proved otherwise, I believe that this should be regarded as fact.
    Exuse me, but it's the same opinion as you see my interpretation of this situation. And I see it completely on reverse.
    Quote Quote:
    About Yama's comments, just because one was true, doesn't mean the other is.
    Yama is right until he is proven wrong.
    Last edited by Jorge D. Dragon; April 07, 2011 at 03:20 AM.

  19. #58
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    ShootToKill
    The same implies to you. If you believe that I'm wrong and you are right I won't be able to convince you. I don't believe that sealed Shinji is even compared to Shunsui. He might be at Byakuya's level while sealed, but not better until it would be prooven by manga.
    Also comparing Chad to Grimjow... it's a strong offense to Grimjow. In healed state with his full Reiatsu he is a considerable opponent for a Captain.
    I want you to tell me how Shunsui will be able to, in the split second it will take Shinji to attack: Process where he's actually coming from given all the inversions AND strike in the right place in time to block / counter Shinji's attack. Just saying "he's a smart as Aizen" when he clearly isn't, won't convince me. As far as strength is concerned, I don't know where Shinji stands, but his ability to dodge Tousen puts his reflexes above Grimmjow's, his speed back in SS exceeded that of Love and Rose, also Captains, and his mask offers him a speed / power boost that Shunsui doesn't have. So I believe he was pretty exceptional to begin with, and his mask enhances this still more.

    If you think I was comparing Chad with Grimmjow, you weren't paying attention to my post - I was just showing an example of a stronger character (Shunsui) dodging the blows of a weaker character (Chad), as a comparison to the Shinji / Grimmjow fight.

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  21. #59
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    ShootToKill
    I made an example above how Shunsui can counter Shinji's attack. Also I do believe that Shinji isn't strong enough to take Shunsui down with one strike even if he lands a first strike.

    Also I can't see Shinji's speed being better than Love's or Rose's. I'd even dare to say that Shinji was weaker as a Captain than Kensei and Love and he is obviously weaker as a Vaizard.

    Quote Quote:
    If you think I was comparing Chad with Grimmjow, you weren't paying attention to my post - I was just showing an example of a stronger character (Shunsui) dodging the blows of a weaker character (Chad), as a comparison to the Shinji / Grimmjow fight.
    I can agree with the example of Chad and Shunsui, but I can't agree on Grim bein weaker than Shinji. Or at least that weaker than Chad to Shunsui.

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    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kyōraku Shunsui vs Hirako Shinji

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    ShootToKill
    I made an example above how Shunsui can counter Shinji's attack. Also I do believe that Shinji isn't strong enough to take Shunsui down with one strike even if he lands a first strike.
    In your example you assume Shinji will come in to attack, then just stand there and not block if Shunsui does get lucky enough to swing his sword in the right direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    Also I can't see Shinji's speed being better than Love's or Rose's. I'd even dare to say that Shinji was weaker as a Captain than Kensei and Love and he is obviously weaker as a Vaizard.
    Where do you get "obviously weaker" from? Where were they compared? With regard to his speed being superior to Love and Rose's, here Shinji, Love and Rose are sent on a search party at the same time, and here Shinji is first on the scene, from which one would conclude that he is the fastest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge D. Dragon View Post
    I can agree with the example of Chad and Shunsui, but I can't agree on Grim bein weaker than Shinji. Or at least that weaker than Chad to Shunsui.
    What about the Tousen example? Shinji dodged him, Grimmjow didn't, so this shows Shinji's reflexes > Grimmjow's. And during their fight, do you seriously think Shinji was in trouble? He was relaxed the whole way through.

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