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Thread: The Naruto PLOT HOLE Archive

  1. #601
    Hound of Shadow 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member benelori's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Where did Kishimoto go wrong with the 'mindf**k plot device'

    Another thing where Kishimoto went wrong with this particular plot device is...not pitting relatives and loved ones against each other...Dan vs Tsunade, Raikage vs Raikage...the mindfuck device wasn't maximized IMO

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  3. #602
    Intl Translator MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted juUnior's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Where did Kishimoto go wrong with the 'mindf**k plot device'

    @benelori, but someone can look at it from different angle <recently was thinking about those match-ups till now> and about Raikage being owned by Naruto, and.. I thought it was unpredictable xD I mean: the moment Yondaime Raikage heard that his father was summoned as ET zombie, almost everybody <or everybody!> said that Raikage will fight Raikage, Kazekage will fight Kazekage, Tsuchikage will fight Tsuchikage, and Mizukage will probably fight Mizukage <here was some probability xP> Nonetheless, only Kazekage vs Kazekage is true, Tsuchikage vs Tsuchikage.. well, it was mostly offpaneled, and when shown it already ended <though, with Naruto & Gaaras help!>, and the rest.. we know how it stands right now. Kishi didn't make what everyone belived will become in the end <at least most of it>

    On the other hand: even if Kishi did make Raikage vs Raikage and such etc., I would probably loved it more.. : ( I mean: its all good and dandy that Naruto owned Raikage in a nice way BUT still.. this means less chances for Yondaime Raikage to have a real fight in this WAR, etc.
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  4. #603
    Reviewer 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member blackjack612's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Where did Kishimoto go wrong with the 'mindf**k plot device'

    I like that the Edo Tensei either go blank or keep their old personality. For me, them suddenly becoming murderous personalities different than themselves would make them feel like different characters (for Edo Tensei's we knew when they were alive). This way I feel is more tragic because either they keep their wits and watch helplessly as their life's work is used against their loved ones or they're wiped and become mindless zombies with no sense of agency whatsoever. So either they watch as they harm their students or their students can't communicate with them at all while they are ruthless murdering machines.

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  5. #604
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity nat's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Where did Kishimoto go wrong with the 'mindf**k plot device'

    I guess it's mostly because he ran out of steam. He doesn't care anymore about the characters, plot or twists. He throws in new characters, powerups without thought. A damn shame, he was such a fine storyteller at one point. Even his villains were intricate and alluring in their diabolical ways * Oro, I'm looking at you*


    ps: When Gaara makes an appearance and it doesn't hold my interest, that's when I know the manga really lost it. All I was thinking was the potential NaruGaara shipping in it....
    Last edited by nat; October 07, 2011 at 09:40 AM.
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  7. #605
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Where did Kishimoto go wrong with the 'mindf**k plot device'

    Quote Originally Posted by nat View Post
    I guess it's mostly because he ran out of steam. He doesn't care anymore about the characters, plot or twists. He throws in new characters, powerups without thought. A damn shame, he was such a fine storyteller at one point. Even his villains were intricate and alluring in their diabolical ways * Oro, I'm looking at you*


    ps: When Gaara makes an appearance and it doesn't hold my interest, that's when I know the manga really lost it. All I was thinking was the potential NaruGaara shipping in it....
    Hello there nat...seeing you here after a long time. I can't agree with your post though. The war arc is going in a straight forward fashion,and its true that there haven't been any real twist or dramatic character development in it so far, but one would generally think that such things are most likely to come towards the end of the arc. Even the last villain before edos, Kisame was quite a brilliant character.

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  9. #606
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity nat's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Where did Kishimoto go wrong with the 'mindf**k plot device'

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    Hello there nat...seeing you here after a long time. I can't agree with your post though. The war arc is going in a straight forward fashion,and its true that there haven't been any real twist or dramatic character development in it so far, but one would generally think that such things are most likely to come towards the end of the arc. Even the last villain before edos, Kisame was quite a brilliant character.


    Maybe, but it's not a good strategy to keep things simple until the very last arc and the have plot explosions all over (Bad pacing or what not). At least from previous arcs, I got the impression that Kishi likes to mix the story up a bit. Now it just feels over-crowded and generic.

    Maybe it's just me, but the war arc feels like an assistant drawing "what if we brough back all the cool characters back! Screw logic-" scenario.


    As for Kisame, mmm. He was always awesome... And his development was gradual and somewhat well thought on Kishi's end. You can grow attached to him.


    ps: I'm waiting for Kabuto to summon the Sage of Six Paths and Naruto to defeat him in 2 chapters.


    pps: What's a "like" button anyway? There's already a "thanks" button.....*confused*
    Last edited by nat; October 10, 2011 at 09:28 AM.
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  10. #607
    MH's Best Reviewer 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Jammin's Avatar
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    Re: [FEATURED] Where did Kishimoto go wrong with the 'mindf**k plot device'

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher
    Hello there nat...seeing you here after a long time. I can't agree with your post though. The war arc is going in a straight forward fashion,and its true that there haven't been any real twist or dramatic character development in it so far, but one would generally think that such things are most likely to come towards the end of the arc. Even the last villain before edos, Kisame was quite a brilliant character.
    I pretty much agree with what Nat originally said (Though not about the NaruGara thing)

    At the end of an arc is too late for character development. I mean, is anybody really satisfied with the ol' "enemy fights, has a flash back in the middle of the fight, then dies" thing? I find that Kishi kept throwing that at his fans more than a little insulting(did he think nobody would notice?) That's one of the reasons I think these Kage battles are so much improved, Kishi isn't trying to unceremoniously shoehorn in character development at the last possible second with them. So maybe Kishi has realized what he was doing and decided to do better.

    I realize that a lot of character development has to wait until toward the end of the arc when Sasuke shows up, and that's fine, but I don't think that should mean that everybody has to come across so flat. If it wasn't for their appearances characters like Hinata, Neji, Temari, Shikamaru, Rock Lee, and Kiba would have been indistinguishable from fodder characters and that doesn't seem right to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by nat View Post
    ps: I'm waiting for Kabuto to summon the Sage of Six Paths and Naruto to defeat him in 2 chapters.
    That would not surprise me at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by nat View Post
    pps: What's a "like" button anyway? There's already a "thanks" button.....*confused*
    They do the same thing.

    I suppose, the "Thank" button is probably for thanking the poster for posting something and the "Like" button is just for expressing that you liked whatever they said. So....they do the same thing.


    edit : There is a difference, even if you don't particularly like the content of the post you can still thanks the author for posting something useful, the perfect example is thanking a post publishing spoilers. You can also thanks someone who answered your question about something, you don't have to appreciate the answer (maybe because it was not what you expected) but you're still grateful to the poster for his action. Or you can thanks someone who already posted your thought about something, sparring you the task to answer, in this case you may like the post too. -Gats
    Last edited by Gats; October 15, 2011 at 03:45 PM.
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  12. #608
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
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    Re: Where did Kishimoto go wrong with the 'mindf**k plot device'

    Kishi need's not to go soo fast with everithing every battle 2-3 chapters it has to be longer with more jutsu and more about other villages and edo tensei it is to much Kabuto was better with cloning ninja the this much edo tensei zombies and where is Kakashi, Gaara deffeats two kages ? Please like no effort and he needs mor jutsu not the sand etc

  13. #609
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Edo Tensei Madara - Plot hole

    so if edo tensei revives the person as they were when they died than how come madara is young? He was shown as an old man in the chapter so i dont understand it, how can the chapter get so many epic votes when there's another giant plot hole. I know kabuto did experiments to his body but if he found the secret of youth than im pretty sure oro would know it too and would need to body snatch plus Chiyo got revived as an old woman so it doesnt make sense.

    Someone care to explain?

  14. #610
    MH Senpai 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Uchiha_Blood's Avatar
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    Re: Edo Tensei Madara - Plot hole

    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Chameleone View Post
    so if edo tensei revives the person as they were when they died than how come madara is young? He was shown as an old man in the chapter so i dont understand it, how can the chapter get so many epic votes when there's another giant plot hole. I know kabuto did experiments to his body but if he found the secret of youth than im pretty sure oro would know it too and would need to body snatch plus Chiyo got revived as an old woman so it doesnt make sense.

    Someone care to explain?
    Kabuto modified and improved Madara's body, bringing him back to his prime most likely was the first thing he's done.
    See here, he accentuates Madara's prime

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  16. #611
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Kid Chameleone's Avatar
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    Re: Edo Tensei Madara - Plot hole

    ''you've been completed beyond what you were in your prime''.

    He's saying that he's stronger due to kabutos experiments, it doesnt justify the fact that hes 50 years younger than he's supposed to be and if thats the case why not revive all the ninja's as they were in their prime? a young chiyo would be much stronger than the old one he brought back

  17. #612
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member Regret's Avatar
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    Re: Edo Tensei Madara - Plot hole

    I doubt Kabuto really cared much about how well Chiyo fought. For all we know it might have taken considerable time and resources to fix Madara and a young Chiyo without her puppets probably wasn't worth the effort. Despite being old she still lasted longer than a lot of other ET.

    I'm not sure if there are any strict rules on ET anyway. Sasori was brought back in a form different than the one he actually died in. Everybody seems to be brought back in a form that's functional.
    Last edited by Regret; September 12, 2012 at 03:41 PM.

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  19. #613
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Edo Tensei Madara - Plot hole

    Chances are Madara was that horrible in his old age compared to his prime. Kabuto probably chose to bring Madara back in his prime but with the powers he had before his death since Madara is his trump card, unlike Chiyo or any other old ninja. we still don't know how Kabuto was able to do that.

    Plus, younger looking Madara is a lot more fearsome than an old one.

  20. #614
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Revvo's Avatar
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    Re: Edo Tensei Madara - Plot hole

    Quote Originally Posted by Regret View Post
    I doubt Kabuto really cared much about how well Chiyo fought. For all we know it might have taken considerable time and resources to fix Madara and a young Chiyo without her puppets probably wasn't worth the effort. Despite being old she still lasted longer than a lot of other ET.

    I'm not sure if there are any strict rules on ET anyway. Sasori was brought back in a form different than the one he actually died in. Everybody seems to be brought back in a form that's functional.
    Or.... simple reason.... we all know a young madara, we all want to see a young madara, we all know an old chiyo, nobody really cares about her anyways.

    The author wanted to show us a young Madara, thus adjusted the story.
    The hole Kauto changing madaras body is just a easy way to introduce a full-power, young Madara to the battle field...
    no need to think about this too much

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  22. #615
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member TobiOrNotTobi's Avatar
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    Re: Edo Tensei Madara - Plot hole

    No one noticed?

    1.)(Old looking) Madara saves Obito from death.
    2.)(Young looking)Madara meeting up with Itachi, if we go by the idea that this was indeed Madara.
    - Madara dies somewhere in between 2.)-3.)
    3.)(Young looking)Madara get's revived by Kabutos ET.

    So: Old > Young > Death?

    I doubt Kabuto had something to do with Madaras appearence looking young. He brought him back in his primestate and that was obviously not the time when he saved Obito, back in his primestate = mid 30's? + enhanced abilitys/chakra supply = therefor his "prime".

    Madara was talking about a secret about his body, was it clearly stated that he mean't Hashiramas DNA (Face on his chest) or rather something else?
    Last edited by TobiOrNotTobi; September 12, 2012 at 06:46 PM.

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