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Thread: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

  1. #61
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    No. Zommari's claim is true. Look at the databook, there's no contradiction.
    The databook calls it a "boast" while it confirms Zommari's statement. And it's really just a character statement. I suppose because Zommari said Byakuya was his equal he actually is?

    Don't be absurd

    Quote Quote:
    Much more than YAMMY, not Ichigo.
    What's your point dude? It just shows Yammy's durability is trashy either way. Byakuya damaging him is no matter. Especially when...

    Byakuya can't even cut Zommari's hierro

    Quote Quote:
    He was not IN his Senkei form. It was still the first form of his Bankai. I'm not even sure why you're arguing this, they still impaled him, they break, reform, it doesn't even matter.
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-619-16...apter-165.html

    There are swords there; that was a Senkei SWORD.

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  3. #62
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Quote Originally Posted by CeroOskuraz View Post
    Yet Byakuya could react to him. So by proof of feats over fallacious character statements the other Espada simply have better speed feats.



    Huh? Ulquiorra has a lot more Rei than Ichigo?

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-794-17...apter-340.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-794-18...apter-340.html

    Don't think so.



    Huh?

    http://www.mangareader.net/94-597-9/...apter-143.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-597-10...apter-143.html
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-597-12...apter-143.html

    Those are Senkei swords dude.

    That Renji crushed
    1. Zomarri stated he had the fastest sonido, not that he is the fastest character. Furthermore, byakuya underestimated ichigo so his speed took him by surprise. Once byakuya started getting serious, he owned ichigo until the hollow appeared

    2. Ichigo does have more reiatsu than ulqui, but ulqui has better control. Hence why he owned ichigo.

    3. That was not senkei. If i remember correctly, he fired that out of his hand. Also, against ichigo was the first time we saw senkei

  4. #63
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Quote Originally Posted by CeroOskuraz View Post
    The databook calls it a "boast" while it confirms Zommari's statement. And it's really just a character statement. I suppose because Zommari said Byakuya was his equal he actually is?

    Don't be absurd
    Nice job taking two completely different statements and connecting them.



    Quote Quote:
    What's your point dude? It just shows Yammy's durability is trashy either way. Byakuya damaging him is no matter. Especially when...

    Byakuya can't even cut Zommari's hierro
    Yammy's Hierro is the second strongest, Zommari's Sonido is the fastest, those are facts.



    Quote Quote:
    http://www.mangareader.net/94-619-16...apter-165.html

    There are swords there; that was a Senkei SWORD.
    Senkei is a form Byakuya only shows to those he's sworn to kill, and is the second stage of his Bankai. He did no such thing against Renji, regardless of what shape the petals are in.

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  6. #64
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Quote Originally Posted by El Samurai Guapo View Post
    I'd buy some of that if this weren't sealed Harribel we were talking about here. There's a really big difference between a sealed espada and an espada in her/her resureccion form. Seriously, sealed Harribel is fodder compared to her released form. Even lower ranked espada in their released forms would defeat sealed Harribel with ease if you ask me. I honestly don't see any of the captains losing to a sealed espada, except perhaps Barragan due to his his hax time field thing.

    It's true that some captains like Byakuya have worthless shikai, but even then, between his sealed sword and kidou I think he could defeat sealed Harribel without much difficulty. Released Harribel? Even bankai Byakuya is going down HARD. See, I'm not underestimating her overall, it's just that while sealed they (arrancar) can't use their real hollow powers so they're SEVERELY handicapped in all aspects. The resureccion boost far exceeds the boost shinigami get from bankai.
    I agree with the majority of what you say. Resurreccion seems in the majority of cases to give a large power boost whereas Bankai doesn't necessarily have to give one at all imo (although it didn't seem like Zommari or Szayel's resurreccions improved their base stats, so I'm not even 100% about this).

    However, Chad just after having learned his most powerful attack was less than fodder to sealed Nnoitra, who is two ranks and a large power gap below Hallibel. Chad, having defeated a Privaron Espada, where high level VCs like Renji, Ikkaku and Shuhei struggle to defeat fraccion, puts him above high VC level.

    So, while the mask offers a definite boost to power and speed, it's hard to quantify, and I don't believe it's enough to put a standard VC very much above a high VC. Renji and Ikkaku have Bankai, and Shuhei arguably has the best melee Shikai among the VCs, so they are imo above Lisa, Hiyori and Mashiro unmasked. I believe the masks put the Vizard VCs slightly above their level perhaps, but no more than Chad or Uryu's level. Nowhere near Captain level in other words, except for base Mayuri. So I would expect the Vizard VCs to be below sealed Nnoitra, and definitely below sealed Hallibel.

    Byakuya might be able to use Kido to his advantage vs Hallibel, but he'd be better off sealed than in Shikai, considering he can't kill a damn thing with his Shikai, in which case I believe he would have no advantage over Hallibel other than Kido, which probably wouldn't be enough. Komamura - similar story, his Shikai sux, and he's slow. Mayuri is imo barely above high VC level in base, and won't land a blow on Hallibel even when she's unreleased, so she wins again. VS the rest though, she probably loses when sealed - the Vizard Captains are imo stronger than most regular Captains.

    The main point I wanted to get across I guess is that I don't think the mask makes as huge a difference as some others think. So I don't believe it puts VC level characters at low Captain level for example. I defended Shinji vs Shunsui etc not because of his mask, but because I think he would be a high level Captain in his own right, and has one of the best Shikai's iin Bleach.

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  8. #65
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    It just irritates me when people or totally don't understand the manga or just trying to troll...
    It's a fact that Zomari had the fastest Sonido and Yammi had the second strongest Hierro among the Espada.
    The thing people forget that in this manga abilities aren't always that relevant. The thing that really matters is Reiatsu level, cause with it you can boost your attacking power, you can defend better, you can even boost such abilities as Shunpo or Sonido with it.
    It's obvious that Tessai is the best in Kidou in this manga, but still Aizen's Kidou is way more powerful,cause he has greater Reiatsu level, or when we are talking about Yama's Kidou it would be even stronger than Aizen's cause his Reiatsu is also stronger.

  9. #66
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    Nice job taking two completely different statements and connecting them.
    How are they different? Nnoitra has about as much backing for him (strength feats), Barragan does too (hax Respira), and Zommari calling Byakuya his equal also has about as many feats (Amor owning Byakuya) for veracity as Zommari has for being the fastest Espada (clones).

    He really isn't the fastest, not in the blitzing sense anyways

    If it's anything you have a double standard for character statements in order to impose a standard on everyone else. Such a thing is unacceptable.

    Quote Quote:
    Yammy's Hierro is the second strongest, Zommari's Sonido is the fastest, those are facts.
    Citation is needed really, because I've disproved them. You can keep up the Ad Nauseum all you want but it won't change facts; it will only indicate your unwillingness to recognize the veracity of feats over character statements.

    Seriously, feats beat statements.

    Quote Quote:
    Senkei is a form Byakuya only shows to those he's sworn to kill, and is the second stage of his Bankai. He did no such thing against Renji, regardless of what shape the petals are in.
    Yeah, and Byakuya stated that Ichigo was the second person to see it; moreover Byakuya needs no sort of command or anything to "activate" Senkei, meaning that it's perfectly likely, actually factually correct, to say that it was a Senkei sword.

    A. Senkei. sword. There is no other sword formation for Byakuya's Bankai apart from Senkei, so now it's your job to prove he didn't go Senkei.

    Even if you do, there's the point of Renji crushing a reinforced sword; it just shows the brittleness of SBK.

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  11. #67
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Quote Originally Posted by cerooskuraz
    Yeah, and Byakuya stated that Ichigo was the second person to see it; moreover Byakuya needs no sort of command or anything to "activate" Senkei, meaning that it's perfectly likely, actually factually correct, to say that it was a Senkei sword.
    Actually, Senkei is described as a form where Byakuya throws away all defensive advantages for an all out assault (likely thanks to having a few dozen swords with his compressed petals in them, leaving him no chance to change the petals back int a free-flowing SKY form). Because that sword didn't come from his store of Senkei swords (he didn't activate Senkei), you can't call it a Senkei sword.

    It'd be the equivalent of seeing Hitsugaya create an ice pillar and drop it on someone and then claiming "Oh, that's his ice prison attack, obviously.", just because it has one aspect of the ice prison (ONE ice pillar as opposed to several) and not the others. It's not proof. It's a hunch.


    Quote Quote:
    A. Senkei. sword. There is no other sword formation for Byakuya's Bankai apart from Senkei, so now it's your job to prove he didn't go Senkei.
    Hakuteiken. It's just as much a form as Senkei is because it follows the same rules as Senkei: it compresses his petals into a more deadly form.

    Quote Quote:
    Even if you do, there's the point of Renji crushing a reinforced sword; it just shows the brittleness of SBK.

    That's fine. SKY does it's damage by bombarding the opponent with a hailfire innumerable blades, so it makes perfect sense that only a handfull would be far less effective than the whole mass. That was less than 1 percent of the full amount of petals he COULD have hit Renji with anyway. Ofcourse it won't have the full mass of Byakuya's reiatsu behind it.

    Also it's important to remember that Senkei is actually brittle (even thought that sword that hit Renji wasn't one of them), but that's testament to the power of the swords themselves. It's like Ikakku's bankai. When he goes bankai Hoozukimaru becomes brittle, because it focuses on nothing but offensive power (hince it's cracking while fighting Edorad). The brittleness is just as much testament to the cutting power Senkei gains.
    Last edited by ninjabot; January 05, 2012 at 12:29 PM.

  12. #68
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Location: HM where she watched Grimmjow vs Ichigo
    State of Mind: In character (Harribel after her Fraccions died)
    Starting Distance: 40 meters
    Knowledge: None except basics, e.g. she has hierro/shinigami know kido.
    Restrictions: Captain Bankai and Captain Mask Powers AND Resurreccion.
    Note: Harribel gets healed before every round.
    In 1vs1 How does she do against each Captain/VC+ shinigami?

    Vice Captains
    Bankai Renji-Halibel stomps
    Bankai Ikkaku-Halibel stomps
    Masked Shikai Hiyori-Halibel wins
    Masked Shikai Lisa-Halibel loses
    Masked Mashiro-mashiro wins

    Recent Captains
    Shikai Mayrui-Halibel stomps
    Shikai Komamura-halibel wins
    Shikai Byakuya-base byakuya owns
    Shikai Soifon- soifon stomps
    Patched/1-hand Kenpachi- he wins mid difficulty

    Veteran Captains
    Shikai Rose- she wins
    Shikai Kensei- she loses
    Shikai Love- she gets raped
    Shikai Ukitake- halibel rapes
    Shikai Shinji-she gets raped
    Shikai Shunsui-shunsui rapes

  13. #69
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Vice Captains
    Bankai Renji
    Bankai Ikkaku
    Masked Shikai Hiyori
    Masked Shikai Lisa
    Masked Mashiro

    = Halibel all wins

    Recent Captains
    Shikai Mayuri
    Shikai Komamura
    Shikai Byakuya
    Shikai Soifon
    Patched/1-hand Kenpachi

    = Halibel all wins

    Veteran Captains
    Shikai Rose- halibel wins
    Shikai Kensei- halibel wins
    Shikai Love- halibel wins
    Shikai Ukitake- halibel wins
    Shikai Shinji-halibel loses
    Shikai Shunsui-halibel loses
    Last edited by espadaboyzz; February 19, 2012 at 05:53 AM.

  14. #70
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member RandomShikafan's Avatar
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    I am shocked almost everyone is dismissing Mashiro like this. This is someone that smacked around the Arrancar that blitzed Ukitake (not a surprise attack, Wonderweiss was in front of him before he attacked), for a long while. Wonderweiss was down and out for several chapters, no need to be frozen or anything. Anyway, as we've been told, an Arrancars difference in power before and after release is far greater then a Shinigami's power before and after releasing shikai, this is one of the first thing we were told about them during the Grimmjow Fraccion fights. With her not being allowed to use resurrection but the VC (BTW, Hiyori remained VC with Mayuri merely being a 3rd seat for a good ten years after Mayuri was named Vice-President of the Research and development Department, him surpassing her is hardly a given, especially after her ability to progress in power was no longer limited by her being restricted to the power of a Soulreaper) allowed to use shikai AND Mask, I don't see this being all that straight forward.

  15. #71
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Bankai Renji -> Harribel wins
    Bankai Ikkaku -> Harribel wins
    Masked Shikai Hiyori -> Harribel wins
    Masked Shikai Lisa -> Harribel wins
    Masked Mashiro -> Harribel wins

    Recent Captains
    Shikai Mayuri -> Depends on if Mayuri can get a hit, and how long he had to prepare beforehand (even with limited knowledge, he can prepare some nasty, nasty things. If no hits/adequate preparation, then Harribel wins
    Shikai Komamura -> Harribel wins
    Shikai Byakuya -> Harribel wins
    Shikai Soifon -> Close - not sure
    Patched/1-hand Kenpachi -> Harribel wins


    Veteran Captains
    Shikai Rose -> Close - Harribel probably wins
    Shikai Kensei -> Harribel wins
    Shikai Love -> Harribel wins
    Shikai Ukitake -> Ukitake wins
    Shikai Shinji -> Shinji wins
    Shikai Shunsui -> Shunsui wins
    Infinite RAGE!

  16. #72
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Harriet beats everybody besides Shunsui, Ukitake, Shinji. Kenpachi can win w/o eyepatch and 2 hands, So can Byakuya with Bankia....Love gets owned , Mayuri can win with Bankia.......:Captains besides Shinji, and senior captains are the only ones that can win w/o Bankia the rest need their Bankia.

  17. #73
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Vice Captains
    Bankai Renji: Resent Renji for the win (I want to believe that lol)
    Bankai Ikkaku: Ikkaku gets smashed
    Masked Shikai Hiyori: Harribel wins
    Masked Shikai Lisa: Harribel wins
    Masked Mashiro: Harribel wins

    Recent Captains
    Shikai Mayrui: Harribel wins
    Shikai Komamura: Harribel wins
    Shikai Byakuya: Harribel wins
    Shikai Soifon: Harribel wins
    Patched/1-hand Kenpachi: Harribel wins

    Veteran Captains
    Shikai Rose: Harribel wins
    Shikai Kensei: Harribel wins
    Shikai Love: Harribel wins
    Shikai Ukitake: Harribel wins
    Shikai Shinji: Shiniji wins
    Shikai Shunsui: Shunsui probably wins

  18. #74
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    This is ridiculous, Harribel is not going to be defeated easily in a fair fight. She was actually fighting against 2 masked Vaizados and a captain simultaneously, and even a vice captain Vaizado is at the very least stronger than captain level.

    Any vice captian: Forget it. Maybe Sasakibe could give her some trouble.
    Any masked Vaizado vice captain: Draw/win. They are all very strong and skilled.
    Soifon: Wins.
    Rose: Loses. Wins with mask.
    Unohana: Wins?
    Shinji: If Harribel falls for his sense distorting ability, wins. Masked, wins. Straight sword fight loses.
    Byakuya: Loses. His Shikai is too weak.for such a high level fight.
    Komamura: Wins if he gets a clean hit.
    Love: Loses. With mask wins.
    Shunsui: Loses. Unlike Starrk, Harribel is not going to get distracted all the time and she will actually fight seriously.
    Kensei: Loses. Masked wins.
    Hitsugaya: Loses.
    Kenpachi: Forget it.
    Mayuri: Loses. Might win with some science.
    Ukitake: Loses.
    This might come in handy. Maybe one in more analysis to come:

    The Thousand Year Blood War buildup and recap:
    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post3091160

  19. #75
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    Re: Harribel (Base) in Captains Gauntlet (Shikai)

    Torran, you said Halibel "had a thing for children". Can you tell me what you mean by that?

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