Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (10/13/14 - 10/19/14).
Forum News: The nomination phase of the Community Awards 2014 is live! Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 600 by BadKarma

View Poll Results: Which General is left standing?

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yamamoto with relative ease

    28 68.29%
  • Yamamoto with relative difficulty

    4 9.76%
  • Baraggran with relative difficulty

    9 21.95%
  • Baraggran with relative ease

    0 0%
New Reply
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 63

Thread: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Country
    United States
    Posts
    304
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Yamamoto (Kubo) said that none stronger than him were born in the last 1,000 years. That includes Aizen.

    Aizen (Kubo) said that his power alone surpasses to that of the 10 Espada put together. Therefore, Yamamoto wins with ease.

  2. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #17
    ~ Forum Fixer ~ 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Miyagi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Country
    Winterfell
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,307
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    Yama has proven himself capable of destroying multiple weaker enemies with ease with large radius attacks, and has the potential with EJ to destroy the most resilient of enemies. However, he won't be able to use EJ against Barragan - he would have to hold him in place, yet would be incapable of getting near Barragan in the first place.
    I don't think Yamamoto needs EJ to defeat Barragan but even if Yamamoto uses EJ, he doesn't have to hold Barragan in place because Barragan doesn't have KS which Aizen can use to send a clone while real Aizen is out of harm's way. IMHO Yamamoto can simply stay outside of his fire pillars and burn whatever is inside.

    I also think Yamamoto doesn't need RJ to defeat Barragan because apparently his kido skills are top-notch and IMHO multiple high level hado would eventually defeat Barragan. I think Yamamoto has the speed to dodge respira and he can also use barriers to stop the respira.

  4. #18
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Buzz Killington's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    I don't really get the "Barragan has way lower Reiatsu" argument - he's one of the most powerful hollows that Aizen could find in the whole of Hueco Mundo. It is highly probable that he is a Vasto Lorde, which already I believe qualifies him to be a lot stronger than the average Captain. I would not expect Barragan or Starrk to be too far removed from Aizen in terms of Reiatsu, and Aizen not to be too far removed from Yama, so I think it's an exaggeration to say there's a huge Reiatsu difference. I think Yama is being somewhat overhyped as some invincible godlike being... he isnt - he's just extremely powerful. I believe the following to be true:
    You can't overhype Yamamoto, he is what he is, which is the most powerful Non-Transcendental character in Bleach. Barragan isn't even the most powerful Espada, who are by feats weaker than WW, who was destroyed by Yamamoto.

    Or, who are weaker than Aizen, who's weaker than Yamamoto. Same difference

    As far as reiatsu, Barragan's was not great enough to overpower the strength of Soi Fon's Bankai and mitigate its damage. So his reiatsu isn't out of So Fine's league apparently.

    I also see no reason to believe any Espada has reiatsu comparable to Aizen

    Quote Quote:
    Reiatsu: Yama > Barragan
    Agreed, unless you're using a certain number of ">" these to emphasize your point, in which case I'd say you need more =/

    Quote Quote:
    Durability: Yama = Barragan
    Completely False. Unless you believe the 2nd shot of Soi Fon's Bankai contains more power than Yamamoto's Ennetsu Jigoku, which Yamamoto completely tanked whereas Barragan had part of his skull blown off by So Fine's missile.

    Since I'm pretty confident Yamamoto's shikai can dish out far more power than Soi Fon is capable of, I'm also sure Yamamoto would survive being hit with her Bankai and keep walking

    So I'd say Durability: Yama > Barragan

    Quote Quote:
    Speed: Yama > Barragan BUT the time dilation ability means Yama will find it practically impossible to land a blow in CQC
    Time Dilation is conscious. If Barragan can't react fast enough to activate it, then he's gonna get blitzed every time.

    I doubt he could keep up with Yamamoto's speed enough to initiate TDF to avoid being punched to pieces a la Wonderweiss

    Even if he could, it won't save him. Soi Fon's kick was only slowed down, not stopped, and it came dangerously close to reaching Barragan

    Yamamoto punches with almost exponentially more force than Soi Fon kicks with, so he'd literally just go right through it

    Quote Quote:
    Abilities: Barragan >> Yama.
    Completely disagree. I guess that's an opinionated matter though, and seeing as you used more than one of ">" those, I guess you are using the signs as some sort of measuring stick?

    Quote Quote:
    Yama has proven himself capable of destroying multiple weaker enemies with ease with large radius attacks, and has the potential with EJ to destroy the most resilient of enemies. However, he won't be able to use EJ against Barragan - he would have to hold him in place, yet would be incapable of getting near Barragan in the first place. Are his other Shikai attacks capable of destroying Barragan? Possibly, but possibly not - Barragan has displayed immense durability feats, and he would be able to slow time and prevent the attack in its entirity from reaching him under normal circumstances.
    As has been said, Yamamoto has no need to hold Barragan in place to use EJ. He held Aizen in place and used it because he needed Aizen to stab him to recognize the reiatsu in his blade as his own to be sure it was him

    Thing is, EJ is definitely not needed to destroy Barragan. Yamamoto can do so barehanded

    Quote Quote:
    Barragan on the other hand, has the single deadliest attack in Bleach. It's incredibly fast, doesn't require preparation time, and is a guaranteed kill when it hits, regardless of the opponent's durability.

    I believe Barragan takes this, with difficulty of course.
    Sure, Respira's deadly, however, Yamamoto can easily counter everything about it.

    It travels fast? Hacchi could react to it quite well. Omaeda could dodge it. Soi Fon was only caught because she wasn't going full speed to evade it since she had no knowledge.. Never had that problem again

    Even if you believe it to be faster than Soi Fon, that has no bearing on Yamamoto unless there's some type of proof that he's only as fast as Soi Fon =/

    The flames of Ryujin Jakka would roast Barragan alive, and nothing he has in his arsenal can save him. How does Barry escape if Yama creates a Fire Prison and then decides to collapse it on Barragan? Not much he can do considering Yamamoto can consistently create these flames faster than Barry can hope to "age" them (Which he apparently can't do given his feats against So Fine)

    But as I said, I believe Yama wins barehanded. A punch or 2 is all thats needed to put Old Man Barry in the ground, and he shouldn't have nothing more than mid difficulty doing so
    Last edited by Buzz Killington; April 18, 2011 at 05:03 AM.

  5. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  6. #19
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Bromamura's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Right track, wrong train
    Country
    Australia
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    263
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Just want to point out that the respira used on Omaeda was specifically said by Barry himself to be slower. Anyhow carry on guys.

  7. #20
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member espadaboyzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur
    Country
    Malaysia
    Posts
    394
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    This is difficult but IMO they both even. I don't think Yama can reach Barragan with any hand to hand combat because of the 'Time" ability... so far what can i saw that no one can touch barragan physically except with kidou or long-ranged type of power.
    I guess they will fight with fire & Aging ability which is something i don't know which one is greater. If Barragan not so arrogant i do think he will wins against all the captain level. His ability is to unique and undefinable, at least to me.

  8. #21
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Austin
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    You can't overhype Yamamoto, he is what he is, which is the most powerful Non-Transcendental character in Bleach. Barragan isn't even the most powerful Espada, who are by feats weaker than WW, who was destroyed by Yamamoto.

    Or, who are weaker than Aizen, who's weaker than Yamamoto. Same difference

    As far as reiatsu, Barragan's was not great enough to overpower the strength of Soi Fon's Bankai and mitigate its damage. So his reiatsu isn't out of So Fine's league apparently.

    I also see no reason to believe any Espada has reiatsu comparable to Aizen
    I'm not arguing that Barragan isn't a step down from Yama in terms of Reiatsu, but not a huge one. I don't believe Yama's Reiatsu is leagues above everyone else's - his Zanpaktou just happens to be the most physically powerful. Aizen is known to have immense Reiatsu, yet his Zanpaktou doesn't augment his power in Shikai state at all. Zanpaktou power doesn't necessarily equal Reiatsu.

    I don't really buy the whole "large difference in Reiatsu means the stronger character can neutralize all of the weaker character's abilities" argument - Gin killing almost killing Aizen somewhat contradicts this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Agreed, unless you're using a certain number of ">" these to emphasize your point, in which case I'd say you need more =/
    I'd say I wouldn't

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Completely False. Unless you believe the 2nd shot of Soi Fon's Bankai contains more power than Yamamoto's Ennetsu Jigoku, which Yamamoto completely tanked whereas Barragan had part of his skull blown off by So Fine's missile.
    Yama was basically done after "tanking" EJ, whereas Barragan, despite having a chunk of his skull blown off, was still perfectly capable of resuming the fight as normal. So I don't believe this offers a suitable basis for comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Since I'm pretty confident Yamamoto's shikai can dish out far more power than Soi Fon is capable of, I'm also sure Yamamoto would survive being hit with her Bankai and keep walking
    Yama hasn't displayed any Shikai feats with the exception of EJ which lead me to believe his Shikai has any stronger attacks than Soifon's Bankai. Yama has way more Reiatsu than Soifon, but if Soifon concentrates all of her power into a single attack, it could prove to be more devastating than Yama's large radius Shikai attacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Time Dilation is conscious. If Barragan can't react fast enough to activate it, then he's gonna get blitzed every time.

    I doubt he could keep up with Yamamoto's speed enough to initiate TDF to avoid being punched to pieces a la Wonderweiss

    Even if he could, it won't save him. Soi Fon's kick was only slowed down, not stopped, and it came dangerously close to reaching Barragan
    You're right about his ability, but I disagree about him getting blitzed. If Soifon can't blitz him, neither can Yama imo - even if Yama is faster, there's not much in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Yamamoto punches with almost exponentially more force than Soi Fon kicks with, so he'd literally just go right through it
    Not entirely sure what you mean here - I agree his punches are far more forceful than Soifon's kicks, but you're saying his punches are so powerful that they'll negate Barragan's time dilation? I don't believe the acceleration of his punches is much greater than Soifon's, he just has more muscle mass, so I don't believe he'll punch so fast that the time dilation won't affect him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    As has been said, Yamamoto has no need to hold Barragan in place to use EJ. He held Aizen in place and used it because he needed Aizen to stab him to recognize the reiatsu in his blade as his own to be sure it was him
    He definitely needed to grab Aizen to be sure it was him and not an illusion, that much I agree with. However, he told Ichigo to escape after EJ had been activated, which leads me to believe it is initially escapable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Thing is, EJ is definitely not needed to destroy Barragan. Yamamoto can do so barehanded
    That would be true, were it not for the time dilation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Sure, Respira's deadly, however, Yamamoto can easily counter everything about it.
    Care to elaborate on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    Even if you believe it to be faster than Soi Fon, that has no bearing on Yamamoto unless there's some type of proof that he's only as fast as Soi Fon =/
    Do you have any proof that he isn't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    How does Barry escape if Yama creates a Fire Prison and then decides to collapse it on Barragan? Not much he can do considering Yamamoto can consistently create these flames faster than Barry can hope to "age" them (Which he apparently can't do given his feats against So Fine)
    If Yama was capable of collapsing the fire prison, I'm pretty sure he would have - would have made his life a lot easier in FKT

    I agree Barragan couldn't age the flames faster than Yama could produce them, but I think Barragan could tank/slow his weaker attacks, while chasing Yama with Respira. He only needs a single hit for it to be over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzz Killington View Post
    But as I said, I believe Yama wins barehanded. A punch or 2 is all thats needed to put Old Man Barry in the ground, and he shouldn't have nothing more than mid difficulty doing so
    A double bone would destroy him, but I don't believe it would ever hit.

    I'm not criticizing your argument, the one thing is that it somewhat hinges on Yama being a lot faster than Soifon, which I just don't believe, so for now I'll still say Barragan wins.

  9. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  10. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Crystal Black's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    351
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Yamamoto wins this. Released Barragan is pretty dangerous, but this is Yamamoto, the Captain Commander who blew apart an Arrancar with his fists. Barragan would get the same treatment after his TDF is completely broken or overwhelmed by the flames. This is just a bare-handed Yama, Sealed Yamamoto takes this.

  11. #23
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Where the Red Fern Grows
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Posts
    6,103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    While barragan's abilties are powerful. It is only effective against those within his reiatsu skill level. Yama is a beast on a level all by himself.

    Yama's flames would overwhelm respira and the king of HM would be reduced to ash.
    REDUCE ALL CREATION TO ASH!!!
    Yama wins!

  12. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  13. #24
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member BaddAzzKenpachi74's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    everywhere
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,073
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Yama takes this one.

    Its been proven that Barragan has to age attacks before hand and there is a limit to how much he can age before it reaches him.

    Yamammotto's shikai in my opinion could easily overwhelm him and respira considering it HUGE attack radius and power and how easily Yama can dish it out and how fast he dishes it out.

    For this fight I can totally see Yama putting Barry in a fire prison and spamming his shikai into the fire prision completely burning barry to a crisp.

    Live for battle, enjoy every minute, death is the price u pay for a good battle, live to kill, no fear.
    by Kenpachi Zaraki
    . ("Discuss This" http://discussthis.freeforums.org/index.php

  14. #25
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cloudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Yama didn't cover the fire JUST from E-J, he covered the fire from ALL of Ryujin Jakka. ALL of the fire was sealed within WW, ALL of it. R-J was gone because the flames had been absorbed. Think about that, then how he still had enough strength to use a 90's level kido! No one stands a chance alone against Yama.

  15. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,050
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    Yama didn't cover the fire JUST from E-J, he covered the fire from ALL of Ryujin Jakka. ALL of the fire was sealed within WW, ALL of it. R-J was gone because the flames had been absorbed. Think about that, then how he still had enough strength to use a 90's level kido! No one stands a chance alone against Yama.
    ..............

    .....Because tanking has so much to do with not being aged right? There's legit reasons for Yama to win, and you chose tanking, the one thing that is completely irrelevant when faced with Respira?

  16. Thanks 4 Member(s) thanked this post
  17. #27
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Raizen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Where the Red Fern Grows
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Posts
    6,103
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    ..............

    .....Because tanking has so much to do with not being aged right? There's legit reasons for Yama to win, and you chose tanking, the one thing that is completely irrelevant when faced with Respira?
    A shinigami's endurance/life is equal to the amount of spiritual pressure they have. That much is stated in bleach.

    For him to tank such an attack shows how powerful and incredible his SP is. That level of SP would give him the possibility to negate respira or simply overwhelm barragan

  18. Thanks 4 Member(s) thanked this post
  19. #28
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Gourmet World
    Country
    Mariejoa
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    4,449
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Yama wins this. It's clear that Aizen was stronger than any of the Espada and Barragan was only the third strongest. And Yama is confirmed stronger than Aizen, so of course he takes Barragan while in Shikai.

  20. #29
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cloudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    ..............

    .....Because tanking has so much to do with not being aged right? There's legit reasons for Yama to win, and you chose tanking, the one thing that is completely irrelevant when faced with Respira?
    Maybe if you read the comment above mine you would realize that I was adding to the fact of what BadAzzKen said.

    Nowhere in that comment did I say anything you're implying. Why do people always do that? Instead of assuming I meant something, maybe you could ask? I was just adding to a statement made already. The durability was brought up- I mentioned that it was more than just 'an attack' Yama suppressed, it was a whole zanpakuto.

    Please, next time don't read into the comment so far.
    Last edited by cloudo; April 28, 2011 at 02:19 AM.

  21. #30
    英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Country
    Australia
    Age
    28
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    725
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Baraggan Luisenbarn vs Genryūsai Yamamoto

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    Yama didn't cover the fire JUST from E-J, he covered the fire from ALL of Ryujin Jakka. ALL of the fire was sealed within WW, ALL of it. R-J was gone because the flames had been absorbed. Think about that, then how he still had enough strength to use a 90's level kido! No one stands a chance alone against Yama.
    Actually Im pretty sure he just tanked E-J, or how much E-J that had been preformed.

    WW absorbed the fire pillars and somehow by touching Yamamoto's sword prevented anymore flames to be released. I dont believe though that he actually drained all of Ryujin Jakka's power from the blade, just stopped anymore from being drawn...
    Last edited by Waking_Dreamer; April 28, 2011 at 05:02 AM.
    [IMG]http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb57/Jonas64/Kilrik.jpg[/IMG]

  22. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
New Reply
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts