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Thread: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

  1. #61
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Excellent posts everyone! Keep up the great and civil discussions !!! Lots of great posts to respond to (I'll jump in when I have time to, hehe).
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  2. #62
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner ~.~'s Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    I know you and Khan were discussing the AFs but then you sort of lost me. It sounds like you're arguing that the AF's don't hunt via yoki but they hunt based on sent correct? I suppose, but why would Rimuto's men be in danger just because the AF's were let loose? I mean of course it's entirely possible that the MIB could get killed in the crossfire between the AF's and the rebels but something like that goes without saying. Permit me to ask though ~.~ [not sure what your name is] if we assume that the MIB could be in danger because the AF's can't tell their sent apart from the Claymores, could it not be an indication that the MIB and Claymore's smell similar. Perhaps because of yoki?

    That's one big piece of damn good speculation. That would lead me to ask if Clare would even care about her fellow Ghosts now that she has Priscilla right where she wants her (presumeably). As soon as Clare encountered Priscilla back in chapter 99, 100, somewhere around that she almost entirely ignored her comrades. Does Clare see the Ghosts as comrades or mere passengers on her highway to hell, blazing trails towards vengeance?
    Oh yes, you got me right Zero-kun, I was saying the AFs track and hunt targets with living signs, that I mean they prey on EVERY living thing that is breathing and emitting body scents, that includes the org's men, and obviously, they wouldn't have the same body scent as claymores, I believe I didnt state that much, yah? They dont have any conciousness, they dont sort out or distinguish one from another, hunger is the only thing they know. You may question about the Easley incident, well, those from that time were made to exterminate an Abyssal one whose scent was "programmed" on to them, unlike these ones, which hadnt been assigned a specific target. So which one do you prefer? (just kidding ).

    OMG, Zero-kun you really took that question seriously how could you doubt her, doubt CLARE!!. Back to Pieta, she pushed her limit, got almost awakened to save Miria from the Silver King's claws; the nearest encounter with Prissy, even if got fused in to the Destroyer, she tried to save Deneve and Helen from being killed by Priss. She didnt need any company, or passenger you said, plz remember she was the first who wanted to leave the ghosts and head south, and Miria and others were the ones following. When they splitted out in the Holy City, she was insisting to travel ALONE .

    Even if she cared about her comrades, what could she do now? that's what I'm curious about. In every possible way my blunt eyes could see, there is none better than this, while she couldnt kill her, immobilizing her would be a not-too-bad move, or so I thought.

    I had some free time and read some of the earlier posts, and I agreed with Nefnora-san about Rimuto. He was either a mastermind, who has some tricks under his sleeves and trying to lure out the other ghosts to wipe them all out with one final act, or just a complete old fool who was playing a lame strategy game, since he had made so so many mistakes recently. Normally, those mistake might be bearable (or forgivable?) but Clare (yah, Clare and only Clare) made it all messed up, haha, she's our protagonist for sure . Wake up and fight Clare, we really miss you!!
    Last edited by ~.~; June 11, 2011 at 07:18 AM.

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  4. #63
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    .

    About the Abyss Feeders/Abyss Eaters (AFs/AEs):


    General Information:

    1. They're made from implanting (female, thus far) humans with Awakened flesh.
    2. They're all females, thus far
    3. Their group size is always 11, and it's most likely that a different group went after Riful, while the other group continued to gobble Isley up, hehe.

    4. If those "mindless beast" town razing male ABs, were also humans (but as males, lol) implanted with Awakened flesh, than why do these males not become (male) AFs, but instead, they become the "mindless beast" town razing male ABs ???

    Natural (Uncontrolled) State:

    1. They will attack and eat anything and everything around them, even other Awakeneds too, as seen by them chomping on the Hellcats, Isley, Riful, and Dauf.

    2. They have an "instinctual intelligence", as seen by them changing their tactics to target the weaker Claymores in ch 115

    3. They thus far seemingly are "mindless beasts", like the seemingly "mindless beasts" that are the town razing "instant-made" male ABs.

    4. They have Priscilla-Level (or beyond) Regeneration ability

    5. They can make any part of their body into Blades

    6. They are extremely fast, both in travel speed and combat speed

    7. Unfortunately, we don't know if their Yoki stays suppressed or not, sighs

    8. They (and Miata) have an extremely powerful sense of smell, and Yoki does give off a smell, which they (and Miata too) can track.

    9. Strangely and somehow, they remain in a Humanoid form, we never see them change into an Awakened form, like other Awakeneds.


    Unnatural (Controlled) State:

    1. The Organization has some kind of Yoki-Mental-Soul Link control over them, but this can be broken via the Infection Ability

    2. The Organization somehow has trained/conditioned/controlled/programmed them to only pursue the scent they've somehow been trained/conditioned to hunt down and eat. They will/do not eat anything and everything around them while under the Organization's some kind of Yoki-Mental-Soul Link control, which again can be broken via the Infection Ability

    3. However, they will defend themselves and will attack any sudden movements.

    4. The Organization somehow has trained/conditioned/controlled/programmed them to head back to the Org HQ's when 6 or more of the 11 of their group is killed, in order to preserve their acquired combat knowledge and experience, and getting their lost numbers "re-stocked" and sharing their combat knowledge and experience with their new replacements. Again, this can be broken via the Infection Ability

    5. They aren't super dangerous initially, but with every moment of combat/battle, they become more and more difficult to kill and dangerous too. They can with enough time, exceed even AOs, as seen by them killing (and gobbling up - hehe) AO Isley. Theoretically, they could even kill (and eat) Priscilla too, albiet they weren't created for killing Priscilla (they were created to kill the AOs), as the BCs didn't know of Priscilla's existence, until recently. Again, this can be broken via the Infection Ability

    6. They must have some kind of version of Soul Link, which allows them to share their combat knowledge and experience with each other (Like how Naruto does for himself with his Shadow Clones). Again, this can be broken via the Infection Ability

    7. Somehow their Yoki is suppressed seemingly at Priscilla-Level (undetectable).

    8. They have Priscilla-Level (or beyond) Regeneration ability

    9. They can make any part of their body into Blades

    10. They are extremely fast, both in travel speed and combat speed

    11. They (and Miata) have an extremely powerful sense of smell, and Yoki does give off a smell, which they (and Miata too) can track.

    12. Strangely and somehow, they remain in a Humanoid form, we never see them change into an Awakened form, like other Awakeneds.

    13. The Oganization sews up their eyes and mouths closed, but when they feed, obviously they're opening their mouths, but I don't recall if we've ever seen their eyes open or not.

    14. They are somehow trained/conditioned/controlled/programmed to be, or maybe they are naturally, "bloodhounds", they'll pursue their prey/target relentlessly.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 11, 2011 at 08:22 AM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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  6. #64
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    Even if Clare was not aware of the outside world, she DID know about the assault on the org!! and i dont think she's ignorant enough to think that the ghost could win easily!! or is she contented for sealing Prissy, avenging somebody, and decide to stay out of this??
    While Clare may have known about Miria's plans to attack the Organization, she doesn't have any knowledge of the events currently unfolding. Recall that the youki clump/pooh is sitting at a great distance from Org. HQ. Clare can sense the youki flow within a warrior but she doesn't have the ability to detect youki at great distances, unlike Galatea and Tabitha.

    IMHO, Clare would never settle for imprisoning "Priscilla." Remember what she told Ophelia in the Fit for Battle Arc. She wants Priscilla's head and nothing less.

    I could see a scenario where Galatea coerces Clare from the Youki to provide aid to the Ghosts. Realistically, Galatea is the only one that has the ability to sense Youki at great distances. If the Ghosts falter at Org. HQ, she most likely intervene in some manner. Wouldn't be too bad if Yagi brings back Galatea in her warrior garment.

    ws
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Actually Clare could sense just as far as Galatea in the past (but Clare couldn't also sense emotions at that distance, or not at all, lol), unfortunately, we don't know if Clare can sense as far as Galatea, Tabatha, and Cynthia can now, though Clare was able to sense Priscilla and Alicia+Beth+Riful+Dauf, but they weren't that far away from Clare.

    Also, actually, Tabatha and Cynthia both can sense a great distance like Galatea too, able to sense all the Claymores/Awakeneds far away from them, just like Galatea is able to do so, though, Galatea probably has the furthest sensing ability, but this isn't entirely certain/concludable.

    -----------

    yes, Clare wants to kill Priscilla - that's well established lol, but since she can't do that, why would she not settle for imprisoning Priscilla (and the Destroyer), as the next best thing ?? (Clare even says this directly pretty much as well)

    -------------

    I do think it is Galatea who can do something about the "Blob of 3", as she was able to sense inside it, and also I theorize that it was also Rubel who was the one who ordered Dietrich to "retrieve" Galatea as he needed her for R+L, which if this theory of mine is correct, supports that Galatea can do something about the "Blob of 3". We also have Rubel showing Galatea A+B+Soul Link, which further supports that Galatea can do something about the "Blob of 3", as well
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 11, 2011 at 05:14 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Goral's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Now that I think about it, since Cassandra exceeded her limit she wasn't that awesome because she used her youki too much, i.e. to complete her tasks she needed to do it, so unless she was against the abyssals (which is not impossible I guess, maybe MiB tried to exterminate Isley or Riful in the past and because of failure they've started soul-link project) it would mean she was nowhere near Priscilla's level. As for having so many cuts and dying for so long, Miria's case was similar so some other Claymore having more youki could withstand more.

    I wouldn't be surprised if next chapter would look like the scene where Rigulad instantly killed Flora. It would be quite an opening seeing Miria being insta-killed and everyone scattering in panic. Although seeing how Yagi has started to change the way he tells his story and from dark fantasy it has become your average shounen (seeing how Deneve and Helen became invincible surviving Isley, AEs, horde of hellcats and even Priscilla and Miria being "resurrected") I wouldn't be surprised if Miria could keep up with one of the 3 and even have the advantage until her opponent would awaken. I hope I won't see anything like that though.

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  12. #67
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    We also have Claymore Ophelia who survived a good amount of time despite, the quite a lot of cuts and blood loss, from Irene's Quick Sword too.

    We also have Claymore Jean who survived Dauf's Rod-Ramming torture for quite a long time

    We got Deneve surviving (due to Regeneration) some massive injuries and lots of blood loss

    We got Cynthia surviving as well for quite a long time, from Infected Awakened Beth's attacks. (She can Regenerate herself, but she wasn't able to as she was nearly out of Yoki)

    And, I"m sure there's many many more instances too.. that I'm forgetting about...

    ....SO....

    I too feel that Cassandra's feat isn't really that unique nor spectacular...
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

  13. #68
    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    @ZERO PHOENIX For someone who likes "cohesive" and supported by arguments posts you should try writing more than one sentence without adding a quote earlier.
    Should your arguments warrant such attention then I shall deliver.



    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    Oh yes, you got me right Zero-kun, I was saying the AFs track and hunt targets with living signs, that I mean they prey on EVERY living thing that is breathing and emitting body scents, that includes the org's men, and obviously, they wouldn't have the same body scent as claymores, I believe I didnt state that much, yah? They dont have any conciousness, they dont sort out or distinguish one from another, hunger is the only thing they know. You may question about the Easley incident, well, those from that time were made to exterminate an Abyssal one whose scent was "programmed" on to them, unlike these ones, which hadnt been assigned a specific target. So which one do you prefer? (just kidding ).
    Ah, good catch my dear. The MIB just let the wolves out and based on the urgency of the situation, could not "program" them to take down specific targets.


    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    OMG, Zero-kun you really took that question seriously how could you doubt her, doubt CLARE!!. Back to Pieta, she pushed her limit, got almost awakened to save Miria from the Silver King's claws; the nearest encounter with Prissy, even if got fused in to the Destroyer, she tried to save Deneve and Helen from being killed by Priss. She didnt need any company, or passenger you said, plz remember she was the first who wanted to leave the ghosts and head south, and Miria and others were the ones following. When they splitted out in the Holy City, she was insisting to travel ALONE .
    Un huh. Yes I did take you seriously. Probably concerns myself and Khan though as we talked about this on mangafox. Forgive the stray thoughts but we've had previous discussions about how Clare is sometimes outright neglectful towards her comrades. Like Miria, when she sets her mind on revenge she doesn't think about much else. Of course to Miria's credit she's a lot more kind-hearted. You're looking at the surface a bit too much though. When Clare and Priscilla met up a couple miles away from the Destroyer Clare was warned by Helen and Deneve not to fight, she was told that it was too dangerous and yet she did it anyway. Only after getting curbstomped did it occur to her, "Wow, this was a bad idea." Of course that's not even counting the fact that even before they left Pieta she outright dised Yuma and told her not to follow her/you'll only slow me down. Is that something you say to a comrade? Didn't think so. On the surface you can say that well Clare was concerned for her comrade to which I would respond "Incorrect." I'm not saying she's cold as ice. Clare has shown concern for her comrades but the moment the object of her vengeance enters her sights she blocks out everything else.


    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    I had some free time and read some of the earlier posts, and I agreed with Nefnora-san about Rimuto. He was either a mastermind, who has some tricks under his sleeves and trying to lure out the other ghosts to wipe them all out with one final act, or just a complete old fool who was playing a lame strategy game, since he had made so so many mistakes recently. Normally, those mistake might be bearable (or forgivable?) but Clare (yah, Clare and only Clare) made it all messed up, haha, she's our protagonist for sure . Wake up and fight Clare, we really miss you!!
    The organization has been in existence for at least 100 years. Rubel himself knows that trying to get a spy into the organization has been known to fail. Until recently any attempts to one-up the organization i.e., destroying labs, bio-weapons, etcetera have failed. So under Rimuto's leadership the organization has been quite powerful for roughly a century give or take. Obviously we're not dealing with an old fool. But we may be dealing with denile of those facts. Such a thing I will not question.



    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    Now that I think about it, since Cassandra exceeded her limit she wasn't that awesome because she used her youki too much, i.e. to complete her tasks she needed to do it, so unless she was against the abyssals (which is not impossible I guess, maybe MiB tried to exterminate Isley or Riful in the past and because of failure they've started soul-link project) it would mean she was nowhere near Priscilla's level.
    More speculation. No I got it. I'll play this time. I can understand the... "basis" of your argument and since we're all about baseless speculations I'd like to make some of my own. You could very well be correct that Cassandra went over her limits and failed to take down one of the Abyssal Ones. It could also be possible that she simply lost control. You see, the MIB name off A LOT of names but we don't know what generation these number ones are from. Cassandra may have been the very first Claymore, the bio-weapon straight out of the factory and loaded with all sorts of defects. Even if she wasn't the first she could be an "older" model if you will with all the bugs that the organization mostly fixed in later versions. We don't know what generation these number ones are from so they might have gone up against the AO or they might have been defective.


    Quote Originally Posted by Goral View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if next chapter would look like the scene where Rigulad instantly killed Flora. It would be quite an opening seeing Miria being insta-killed and everyone scattering in panic. Although seeing how Yagi has started to change the way he tells his story and from dark fantasy it has become your average shounen (seeing how Deneve and Helen became invincible surviving Isley, AEs, horde of hellcats and even Priscilla and Miria being "resurrected") I wouldn't be surprised if Miria could keep up with one of the 3 and even have the advantage until her opponent would awaken. I hope I won't see anything like that though.
    True, true. It would be great if Claymore returned to it's dark roots but clearly that's not happening. Ah the good ole days. Now that's done let's move onto my real objective, you HegemonKhan.


    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    I too feel that Cassandra's feat isn't really that unique nor spectacular...
    Basically Khan the entire point of my argument is that I completely disagree with you with regards to Cassandra's feat not being unique or spectacular. In all the cases you named, the "hurdle" that the Claymore were able to make it through can hardly be compared to Cassandra (or her "legend" anyway).


    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    We also have Claymore Ophelia who survived a good amount of time despite, the quite a lot of cuts and blood loss, from Irene's Quick Sword too.
    It's been stated by Rubel, Clare, and others that so long as their vitals are not struck and so long as their head is not removed a Claymore can survive most injuries. Take into account the fact the Irene did not hit any of Ophelia's vitals and the fact that Ophelia is a number four and I would be more surprised if she didn't survive. You do recall that her head was twisted like a dolls just a few chapters before that. Opehila isn't going to go down from just a few sword swipes.


    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    We also have Claymore Jean who survived Dauf's Rod-Ramming torture for quite a long time
    Jean may have been a defensive type. Not only that but again, Dauf was not aiming for her vitals. In addition, it's reasonable to assume that Claymores are trained to resist torture. Add on the fact that Claymore's are already much more resilient than a normal human. Jean was also a single digit so no, I'm not impressed by such a feat because it is to be expected.



    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    We got Deneve surviving (due to Regeneration) some massive injuries and lots of blood loss.
    As a defensive type who had already half-awakened Deneve surviving her wounds is to be expected. I've never known a Claymore to die from blood loss.


    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan View Post
    We got Cynthia surviving as well for quite a long time, from Infected Awakened Beth's attacks. (She can Regenerate herself, but she wasn't able to as she was nearly out of Yoki).
    What you call a long time is a span of a 60 minutes at the most. The battle between Priscilla and the Black Ones probably only lasted a few minutes and obviously once Priscilla killed the Black Ones she had no reason to stay in the area, thus prompting her to leave and proividing the opening that Yuma needed to come in and heal Cynthia. On top of that her torso was "relatively" intact. Her heart was fine, same goes for the lungs and clearly that pretty [ok beautiful ] head was still on her shoulders. Nevermind the fact that she's a defensive type.

    To wrap this up I'm going to say that Cassandra's feat is every bit as horrifying as the MIB made it out to be. Remember that the very act of Cassandra awakening, the explosion of yoki that came from her body tore the warriors around her to pieces. It seems to me that Cassandra awakened and as usual with awakened beings the MIB sent a team to deal with her. Whatever happened during that battle it was horrific because Cassandra had more than 100 wounds on her body and it took her hours still to die. A person can bleed to death in a few minutes so given that Cassandra took hours to die I highly doubt blood loss was the cause of death. It's "possible" but not probable. Her cause of death was more than likely a vital being punctured like say a heart, or lung. Yet she was still able to survive for hours. In all the cases you named HegemonKhan, the other Claymores were hardly facing the same circumstances. The Claymores you named were either NOT gravely wounded from the start (Ophelia, Jean) or they received first aid, yoki healing whatever (Deneve <on herself>, Cynthia <on herself/with help>) within minutes of being injured.

    It is my position that Cassandra's "hype" is every bit as impressive as one would expect.

    Yeah I like this. I like the way this feels.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 13, 2011 at 10:47 PM. Reason: I removed this line: That's all well and good but Nefnora's posts aren't exactly known for objectivity or accuracy are they?

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    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Spartacus's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    If Raki or any oher human male managed to impregnate some Claymores, you would think they would get pregnant...

    Well, since female Claymores are still human, you think they can get pregnant from human seed? Or male claymore seed?

    You think a Claymore giving birth to a Claymore baby creature would have been an idea of the MiB people thought of already?

    I wonder if those babies would awaken prematurally while in the belly. Would the Claymore female bidy be able to fathomly accustom the child?
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 13, 2011 at 10:20 PM. Reason: changed some words to more decent ones

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    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    I don't know if you're intentionally tactless or if you really wish to know. But I'll be happy to answer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    If Raki or any oher human male managed to impregnate some Claymores, you would think they would get pregnant...
    I am so tired of Raki getting play! Well in any case Claymore are sterile/barren/infertile whatever term you want to use. In the realm of imagination Clarice might have the potential to bear children it depends on whether or not Miata was suckling her for milk or just as a pacifier. Do we have a biology expert here because I'm not one. As I understand it, women produce breastmilk sometime around pregnancy. Or it's something about pregnancy that permits the production of breatmilk. If Miata was actually being breastfed by Clarice then it's probably possible that Clarice would be the exception to Claymore being unable to have children. But if Miata was only suckling Clarice and not actually feeding then no, even Clarice wouldn't be the exception to the rule. [If only we had someway of verifying this... Giggity giggity.]



    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Well, since female Claymores are still human, you think they can get pregnant from human seed? Or male claymore seed?
    Claymores aren't human. Females do not produce eggs and males do not produce seed. They're sterile.



    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    You think a Claymore giving birth to a Claymore baby creature would have been an idea of the MiB people thought of already?
    It would be a complete nightmare for the MIB if Claymore could reproduce so whether it was a side-effect of mixing human DNA and yoma DNA that caused all Claymore to be unable to have children, or if it was something that the MIB removed from them via genetic engineering, the MIB have already addressed this issue. Of course we all know how Dae is so I wouldn't put it past him to try to create a Claymore that could reproduce, if he hasn't already. I wonder why he keeps all the dead number ones in his room.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    I wonder if those babies would awaken prematurally while in the belly.
    I doubt it. In order to awaken a Claymore has to be pushed passed their limits. How is a fetus going to get pushed over the limit? It just sits there. It doesn't do anything for nine months but just sit there in the mothers stomach. It might kick or turn this way or that but I really don't see a fetus awakening.



    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Would the Claymore female bidy be able to fathomly accustom the child?
    Shocking. That is a good question. Can't tell you. Normal women can have complications during childbirth so Claymore probably wouldn't be an exception. Please note that I have already addressed that it is improbable for a Claymore to have a child, BUT, should hell freeze over and it actually does happen I suspect Claymore pregnancy would be similar to pregnancy for a normal woman. Some will have complications some won't.

    Does anyone else have questions for Zero Phoenix?
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 13, 2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason: changed some words to more decent ones

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  19. #71
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member wickedsmile's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    If Raki or any oher human male managed to impregnate some Claymores, you would think they would get pregnant...

    Well, since female Claymores are still human, you think they can get pregnant from human seed? Or male claymore seed?

    You think a Claymore giving birth to a Claymore baby creature would have been an idea of the MiB people thought of already?

    I wonder if those babies would awaken prematurally while in the belly. Would the Claymore female bidy be able to fathomly accustom the child?
    Yagi has not given us enough information of Claymore biology/physiology to answer this question without a great deal of speculation. While the the optimist in all of us would like to believe that these women could still bare children, it's more likely that they can no longer conceive, as a result of integrating Yoma flesh within their bodies.

    ws
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM.
    I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

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  21. #72
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Zero Phoenix,

    I still don't see the spectacle of Cassandra's damage vs anyone else's damage.

    those Claymores were quite damaged, so what's more spectacular about Cassandra's damage?

    I think I forgot to mention Raquel (however you spell her name, lol), the Claymore "messenger" who died in Clare's arms, which prompted Clare to take on Dauf+Riful in the Witches Maw chapters.

    Also, if Cassandra is an Awakened when the damage to her occured... we've seen Awakeneds take some extreme damage too...

    Priscilla, Isley, the Hellcats, the AFs, Riful, Dauf, and etc...

    ----------------------

    Also, while I don't pretend to understand the differences/circumstances, Claymores can die from "normally fatal injuries", while other times, Claymore's seem impervious to such "normally fatal injuries", as well.

    Understand exactly what kills a Claymore vs what doesn't, is quite a nightmare, that I won't even try to take on in understanding it.

    ------------------

    the reproduction topic has definately been discussed before, lol.

    simpliest answers:

    1. There has been no pregnancies, no births, so therefore, there are no pregnancies, no births.

    2. why would Yagi get into the mess of births, when we don't even know how they're created artifically, lol. There's just zero point from a practical-lterary reason to get into the mess of births.

    ----

    now there actually is a good bit of suggestion that pregnancy might be possible, the "act" of reproducing is definately possible, straight from Agatha's lips to the handsome Cid, ~"My you're a handsome human, I think I'll let you enjoy me, before I rip you apart and bathe in your blood. I do have the entire, and I mean entire, human female anatomy, Ciddy baby!" There's other examples too, but Agatha is good enough, lol.

    ----

    about Clarice,

    she could have got and been pregnant and given birth as a human, before she got mutated into a Claymore, so that could explain if she does indeed produce milk.

    also, in emergencies in the real world, even male humans can produce milk, lol

    so, if Miata really needed to have milk, it could have caused an emergency in Clarice's body to start producing milk for Miata.

    but, I'll definately wait for a female to address this with more expertise, lol.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner ~.~'s Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Wow, very detailed summary about the AFs, Khan-kun, many thanks for the good job! ^^, though I still stand on my opinion that AFs have nothing to do with Youki, hehe
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by wickedsmile View Post
    While Clare may have known about Miria's plans to attack the Organization, she doesn't have any knowledge of the events currently unfolding. Recall that the youki clump/pooh is sitting at a great distance from Org. HQ. Clare can sense the youki flow within a warrior but she doesn't have the ability to detect youki at great distances, unlike Galatea and Tabitha.

    IMHO, Clare would never settle for imprisoning "Priscilla." Remember what she told Ophelia in the Fit for Battle Arc. She wants Priscilla's head and nothing less.

    I could see a scenario where Galatea coerces Clare from the Youki to provide aid to the Ghosts. Realistically, Galatea is the only one that has the ability to sense Youki at great distances. If the Ghosts falter at Org. HQ, she most likely intervene in some manner. Wouldn't be too bad if Yagi brings back Galatea in her warrior garment.

    ws
    Yeah, I understood that she didnt know about what was going on, but as I stated she knew the battle would happen for sure, and I really want to know what would she do about it, WS-kun, or is it gonna be like Zero-kun said, she had Priss right where she wanted and give up on the ghosts (though I doubt that would happen).

    I too didnt think ( and want to think) that Clare would settle with just that! but she hadnt showed any sign so far. She might be an idiot, but no fool. Galatea used to say Clare might not response to the outside, because she knew of the consequences.

    I dont think Galatea would pull Clare out from the black blob. She, more than anyone, must have known what's inside that thing. And if she wants aid for the ghosts, instead of calling for Clare, which may lead to another outburst of a disaster, may request aid from Miata/Clarice. And what if Clare wouldnt break the blob, but Priss herself??

    Hmm, I'm not sure about this, but by the way Galatea acted, she seemed to show no interest in the battle, so I dont know if she would put on her warrior garment again.

    My thought is, the blob would break, by Clare/Priss or even Galatea, then Clare along with the Destroyer head to the org and end that battle, while Priss would be caught in the Holy City by Galatea/Miata/Clarice. The problem is will Clare be able to overcome the hatred she bears for so long to go and help her comrades. But who knows, there are so many possibility, and it's Claymore, we should expect the unexpectable, I think.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    When Clare and Priscilla met up a couple miles away from the Destroyer Clare was warned by Helen and Deneve not to fight, she was told that it was too dangerous and yet she did it anyway. Only after getting curbstomped did it occur to her, "Wow, this was a bad idea." Of course that's not even counting the fact that even before they left Pieta she outright dised Yuma and told her not to follow her/you'll only slow me down. Is that something you say to a comrade? Didn't think so. On the surface you can say that well Clare was concerned for her comrade to which I would respond "Incorrect." I'm not saying she's cold as ice. Clare has shown concern for her comrades but the moment the object of her vengeance enters her sights she blocks out everything else.
    Yes, I admit she neglected her comrades words, but that's only natural, when your the reason for your life is standing right in front of you, I dont think words would matter anymore. And that fight, I dont think that's a bad idea at all, if it hadn't been for the "wedge", which Jean carved into her mind, she had been able to wound Priss, seriously. And plz dont just judge her by her words, she said so to Yuma, since she saw signs of fatigue from her, and after that, she did slow down for Yuma to catch up to her pace, while she could just pace up and leave Yuma be, I think that is a much simplier way to cut a tail than telling it to turn back, yah?

    And you're right, once vengeance is in her sight, she would block out all others, as long as her comrades dont get in danger

    Quote Originally Posted by ZERO PHOENIX View Post
    The organization has been in existence for at least 100 years. Rubel himself knows that trying to get a spy into the organization has been known to fail. Until recently any attempts to one-up the organization i.e., destroying labs, bio-weapons, etcetera have failed. So under Rimuto's leadership the organization has been quite powerful for roughly a century give or take. Obviously we're not dealing with an old fool. But we may be dealing with denile of those facts. Such a thing I will not question.
    Then I would really want to know if Rimuto is the leader for all these years. The org was running flawlessly since it had a very effective way of operating and preventing rebellion from the roots, but it hadnt seemed to deal with such crisis before. But if Rimuto is just a current leader, and seeing all that events had happened recently, it's quite reasonable for Nefnora-san to question about his leadership.

    Though I dont think he's a fool either, instead he's got some achievements, breaking the deadlock between the org and AOs, getting to know about Priss, experimenting on new species, testing the effectiveness of an anti-warrior weapon (No.10 Rafutela), and if he manages to suppress this rebellion, then it would be a full reset on the whole continent after it had been put in chaos recently (oh gosh, that sounds so godlike, hehe).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartacus View Post
    Well, since female Claymores are still human, you think they can get pregnant from human seed? Or male claymore seed?
    I dont think this is possible, as Helen once said to Clare the first time they met, and she questioned about Clare and Raki's relationship, she stated that Raki couldn't be her child..or so I remember..

    As for the biology issue, if you guys could wait for a couples of years, hopefully I would be able to answer that, expertly. (-.-')
    Last edited by ~.~; June 14, 2011 at 10:45 AM.

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    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    No Trust Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    Yes, I admit she neglected her comrades words, but that's only natural, when your the reason for your life is standing right in front of you, I dont think words would matter anymore.
    That's not natural. That's absurd. So the object of Clare's vengeance is in front of her and she automatically forgets the year or so her comrades spent watching her back? She immediately forgets that the difference in power between herself and Priscilla is enormous? She was fully aware that she was a speck of dust to Riful yet she thought she could defeat Priscilla who was many times more powerful? Really. OK, I'll buy that. Revenge is a drug that dilutes common sense. We've seen this in Miria so fine, I'll give it to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    And that fight, I dont think that's a bad idea at all, if it hadn't been for the "wedge", which Jean carved into her mind, she had been able to wound Priss, seriously.
    You think that a Claymore of Clare's level, taking on an AB stronger than the AO was a good idea. Ummmm... no way!. Not once in this entire manga has Priscilla ever been seriously wounded. Maybe, just maybe Isley wounded her enough to bring back some trauma but never in this entire series has anyone ever wounded Priscilla as gravely as you "claim." Clare attacked Priscilla who did not even flinch. Usually when someone is seriously wounded they grunt, scream, curse, what have you. Priscilla's stoicism isn't a sign of someone being seriously wounded.


    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    And plz dont just judge her by her words,
    Yeah, cause her actions help your case, right ? riiiight...

    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    she said so to Yuma, since she saw signs of fatigue from her, and after that, she did slow down for Yuma to catch up to her pace, while she could just pace up and leave Yuma be, I think that is a much simplier way to cut a tail than telling it to turn back, yah?
    Ten points.


    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    And you're right, once vengeance is in her sight, she would block out all others, as long as her comrades dont get in danger
    You claim that even when vengeance is a foot, Clare would block out all others as long as her comrades are not in danger. That's quite a contradiction you made. Obviously if Clare is blocking out all others then she wouldn't care about the safety of her comrads. You completely contradict your entire argument in one single sentence. Furthermore, and this is key mind you, fighting Priscilla could not have come at a worse time. The Destroyer was sending those prods everywhere, the MIB was on the scene, the Black Ones were on the seen, and Clare was an insect compared to Priscilla, on top of that Clare's friends were already in danger. A person who really cares about their friends would haul ass but she didn't. Clare outright ignored Helen and Deneve, knowing full well they would be in danger and she fought Priscilla anyway. See how that works?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    Then I would really want to know if Rimuto is the leader for all these years. The org was running flawlessly since it had a very effective way of operating and preventing rebellion from the roots, but it hadnt seemed to deal with such crisis before. But if Rimuto is just a current leader, and seeing all that events had happened recently, it's quite reasonable for Nefnora-san to question about his leadership.
    Right I got it. Because even if the author alludes to leadership everything has to be explained from the MIB's age, to their height, hobbies, and so forth. Got it.


    Quote Originally Posted by ~.~ View Post
    Though I dont think he's a fool either, instead he's got some achievements, breaking the deadlock between the org and AOs, getting to know about Priss, experimenting on new species, testing the effectiveness of an anti-warrior weapon (No.10 Rafutela), and if he manages to suppress this rebellion, then it would be a full reset on the whole continent after it had been put in chaos recently (oh gosh, that sounds so godlike, hehe).
    Yeah that's what I thought. Even if we take into account the organizations recent activities, Rimuto is hardly the ignorant, feeble minded old man that Nefnora tries so very very hard to get us to believe. If we "entertain" your prior argument and "assume" that Rimuto has only been leader for say, since Claymore started as "we" see these events, then the organization has accomplished a great deal in a very, very short time under Rimuto's leadership so you see, contrary to the dubious arguments laid down by one Nefnora, the work speaks for itself. All that matters are facts and facts are Rimuto is a very effective leader.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 14, 2011 at 09:36 PM. Reason: made a few very minor edits

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member HegemonKhan's Avatar
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    Re: Claymore 115 Disc/116 Pred Thread

    Clare does care about others very much, but "if push comes to shove", she cares more about her revenge on Priscilla.

    Rafaela's "weak heart" (her kindness, compassion, softness, caring-ness, and loving-ness) resulted in losing her beloved older sister Luciela.

    Miria's "weak heart" we had thought resulted in her death, lol.

    Raftela's "weak heart" infuriated Rimuto and got her (presumably) killed (unless she "pulls a Miria").

    Teresa's "weak heart" (only gradually after meeting Clare, lol) got her killed by Priscilla

    ------

    and now let's look at Clare:

    Clare saw first hand what a "weak heart" resulted in, the death of her beloved Teresa.

    If Clare was to ever have a chance at getting revenge against Priscilla, she had to "Steel" her heart cold, much like Rafaela had done after her beloved Luciela was stuck as an AO. As she wouldn't want her heart to be weakened and have a deva ju of Teresa with herself...

    except that's (nearly) exactly what (censored) happened !!!!! ...

    Clare had successfully steeled her heart cold and ruthless, as seen by her in ch 1, nearly killing Raki with her own sword, lol

    (damned Raki, he doesn't know the first rule about manga girls: Don't ever come up from behind on a manga girl, if you value your life !!!)

    but, than just like with Teresa with Clare, Raki had caused her "weak heart" to return, Clare became soft again, just like Teresa had become soft from Clare.

    Clare with her "weak heart" (thanks/no thanks to Raki) began to help and care about others again, going out of her way to help/save/protect other Claymores, as well as humans too.

    Well, Clare finally meets up with Priscilla... and guess what... Clare is with her "weak heart", ("harsh/tough love") caringly telling her beloved friends, Deneve and Helen, to get lost as she cares about their lives! Clare is too concerned with others, even as she tries to get angry and get revenge on Priscilla. But Clare's too soft, too "weak hearted", too weak.

    And Priscilla is about to decapitate our beloved Clare, just like Teresa, Deja Vu, and Clare realizes it, and starts bawling/crying her head off, lying on the ground, about to be killed in the same fashion as Teresa was, but thankfully, my heroes, Deneve and Helen, rescued my beloved Clare from a deja vu death by priscilla.

    (I'm getting tired... argh... need to stop... sorry)

    -----------------------------------------------

    here's some manga content that supports Clare ultimately caring more about revenge than anything else:

    Clare Compendium Thread

    here's my large post on Clare:

    http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...=1#post2177939

    and to highlight one of my better parts of it, about Clare's Desire for Revenge:

    Quote Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
    here's my *old* posts about Clare:

    "
    Clare's path in life is solely that of Priscilla's death.

    (incomplete. took too long. too much work)

    (see bottom of my post for the ultimate confirmation of what I've said about Clare, as being correct)

    1. chapter 24 pages 22-29

    "I couldn't even hate the beast that killed Teresa. It was me, overcome by fear, that I couldn't forgive."

    "I don't recall how I lived after that. I only knew I was searching for a stranger dressed in black."

    "I want you to put Teresa's flesh and blood inside me!"

    "And that's how I became the first person ever to knock on the Organization's door of her own free will!"

    2. chapter 25 pages 12-19

    "You never change. Always doing things the hard way..... Or could it be?"

    "You were hoping for that......."

    "Do you want Priscilla's head?"

    "....It's too bad. It isn't you."

    3. chapter 37 pages 1-30. chapter 38 pages 1-31

    (too many lines. Entire chapter shows Clare's determination to kill Priscilla. Irene wants Clare to live. But, Clare just wants to kill Priscilla)

    4. chapter 39 page 21 and pages 29-31. chapter 40 pages 20-37

    "I just wanted to kill my brother's murderer! I just wanted revenge on the monster that killed my brother!.... It's that. That one horned monster's fault!"

    "What are you? You."

    "I'm Clare, number 47. I've taken on Teresa's flesh and Irene's right arm."

    "I'm the one who's going to take the head of that one horned monster Priscilla. Forgive me. But, I have to take your soul, too."

    (too many lines. Clare is clearly shown determined to take Priscilla's life, as seen in Ophelia's game, designed to test how much Clare wants to kill Priscilla and whether Clare has the potential to be able to do so)

    5. chapter 45 page 31 and chapter 46 page 5

    "Tell me the name of the man in the north, I am going to kill his woman."

    6. etc...

    7. chapter 101



    Clare flat out confirms what I've said in my post about Clare and her "psychology":

    chapter 37 page 19

    "You said I should have forgotten everything and lived as a human, but there's no way I could do that. At that time Teresa was everything to me. Everything I lost. My life, my voice, even my joy in living. Teresa gave those back to me. Teresa gave me everything. So I had no choice but to move forward. I wasn't strong enough to forget all that and go on living."
    "

    -HK



    Can everyone please post any future posts that are about Clare in this thread, Clare Compendium Thread, as it was made for discussing about the character Clare.
    Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 14, 2011 at 09:28 PM.
    "The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

    "I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

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