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Excellent posts everyone! Keep up the great and civil discussions !!! Lots of great posts to respond to (I'll jump in when I have time to, hehe).
OMG, Zero-kun you really took that question seriously how could you doubt her, doubt CLARE!!. Back to Pieta, she pushed her limit, got almost awakened to save Miria from the Silver King's claws; the nearest encounter with Prissy, even if got fused in to the Destroyer, she tried to save Deneve and Helen from being killed by Priss. She didnt need any company, or passenger you said, plz remember she was the first who wanted to leave the ghosts and head south, and Miria and others were the ones following. When they splitted out in the Holy City, she was insisting to travel ALONE .
Even if she cared about her comrades, what could she do now? that's what I'm curious about. In every possible way my blunt eyes could see, there is none better than this, while she couldnt kill her, immobilizing her would be a not-too-bad move, or so I thought.
I had some free time and read some of the earlier posts, and I agreed with Nefnora-san about Rimuto. He was either a mastermind, who has some tricks under his sleeves and trying to lure out the other ghosts to wipe them all out with one final act, or just a complete old fool who was playing a lame strategy game, since he had made so so many mistakes recently. Normally, those mistake might be bearable (or forgivable?) but Clare (yah, Clare and only Clare) made it all messed up, haha, she's our protagonist for sure . Wake up and fight Clare, we really miss you!!
Last edited by ~.~; June 11, 2011 at 07:18 AM.
About the Abyss Feeders/Abyss Eaters (AFs/AEs):
1. They're made from implanting (female, thus far) humans with Awakened flesh.
2. They're all females, thus far
3. Their group size is always 11, and it's most likely that a different group went after Riful, while the other group continued to gobble Isley up, hehe.
4. If those "mindless beast" town razing male ABs, were also humans (but as males, lol) implanted with Awakened flesh, than why do these males not become (male) AFs, but instead, they become the "mindless beast" town razing male ABs ???
Natural (Uncontrolled) State:
1. They will attack and eat anything and everything around them, even other Awakeneds too, as seen by them chomping on the Hellcats, Isley, Riful, and Dauf.
2. They have an "instinctual intelligence", as seen by them changing their tactics to target the weaker Claymores in ch 115
3. They thus far seemingly are "mindless beasts", like the seemingly "mindless beasts" that are the town razing "instant-made" male ABs.
4. They have Priscilla-Level (or beyond) Regeneration ability
5. They can make any part of their body into Blades
6. They are extremely fast, both in travel speed and combat speed
7. Unfortunately, we don't know if their Yoki stays suppressed or not, sighs
8. They (and Miata) have an extremely powerful sense of smell, and Yoki does give off a smell, which they (and Miata too) can track.
9. Strangely and somehow, they remain in a Humanoid form, we never see them change into an Awakened form, like other Awakeneds.
Unnatural (Controlled) State:
1. The Organization has some kind of Yoki-Mental-Soul Link control over them, but this can be broken via the Infection Ability
2. The Organization somehow has trained/conditioned/controlled/programmed them to only pursue the scent they've somehow been trained/conditioned to hunt down and eat. They will/do not eat anything and everything around them while under the Organization's some kind of Yoki-Mental-Soul Link control, which again can be broken via the Infection Ability
3. However, they will defend themselves and will attack any sudden movements.
4. The Organization somehow has trained/conditioned/controlled/programmed them to head back to the Org HQ's when 6 or more of the 11 of their group is killed, in order to preserve their acquired combat knowledge and experience, and getting their lost numbers "re-stocked" and sharing their combat knowledge and experience with their new replacements. Again, this can be broken via the Infection Ability
5. They aren't super dangerous initially, but with every moment of combat/battle, they become more and more difficult to kill and dangerous too. They can with enough time, exceed even AOs, as seen by them killing (and gobbling up - hehe) AO Isley. Theoretically, they could even kill (and eat) Priscilla too, albiet they weren't created for killing Priscilla (they were created to kill the AOs), as the BCs didn't know of Priscilla's existence, until recently. Again, this can be broken via the Infection Ability
6. They must have some kind of version of Soul Link, which allows them to share their combat knowledge and experience with each other (Like how Naruto does for himself with his Shadow Clones). Again, this can be broken via the Infection Ability
7. Somehow their Yoki is suppressed seemingly at Priscilla-Level (undetectable).
8. They have Priscilla-Level (or beyond) Regeneration ability
9. They can make any part of their body into Blades
10. They are extremely fast, both in travel speed and combat speed
11. They (and Miata) have an extremely powerful sense of smell, and Yoki does give off a smell, which they (and Miata too) can track.
12. Strangely and somehow, they remain in a Humanoid form, we never see them change into an Awakened form, like other Awakeneds.
13. The Oganization sews up their eyes and mouths closed, but when they feed, obviously they're opening their mouths, but I don't recall if we've ever seen their eyes open or not.
14. They are somehow trained/conditioned/controlled/programmed to be, or maybe they are naturally, "bloodhounds", they'll pursue their prey/target relentlessly.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 11, 2011 at 08:22 AM.
IMHO, Clare would never settle for imprisoning "Priscilla." Remember what she told Ophelia in the Fit for Battle Arc. She wants Priscilla's head and nothing less.
I could see a scenario where Galatea coerces Clare from the Youki to provide aid to the Ghosts. Realistically, Galatea is the only one that has the ability to sense Youki at great distances. If the Ghosts falter at Org. HQ, she most likely intervene in some manner. Wouldn't be too bad if Yagi brings back Galatea in her warrior garment.
Actually Clare could sense just as far as Galatea in the past (but Clare couldn't also sense emotions at that distance, or not at all, lol), unfortunately, we don't know if Clare can sense as far as Galatea, Tabatha, and Cynthia can now, though Clare was able to sense Priscilla and Alicia+Beth+Riful+Dauf, but they weren't that far away from Clare.
Also, actually, Tabatha and Cynthia both can sense a great distance like Galatea too, able to sense all the Claymores/Awakeneds far away from them, just like Galatea is able to do so, though, Galatea probably has the furthest sensing ability, but this isn't entirely certain/concludable.
yes, Clare wants to kill Priscilla - that's well established lol, but since she can't do that, why would she not settle for imprisoning Priscilla (and the Destroyer), as the next best thing ?? (Clare even says this directly pretty much as well)
I do think it is Galatea who can do something about the "Blob of 3", as she was able to sense inside it, and also I theorize that it was also Rubel who was the one who ordered Dietrich to "retrieve" Galatea as he needed her for R+L, which if this theory of mine is correct, supports that Galatea can do something about the "Blob of 3". We also have Rubel showing Galatea A+B+Soul Link, which further supports that Galatea can do something about the "Blob of 3", as well
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 11, 2011 at 05:14 PM.
Now that I think about it, since Cassandra exceeded her limit she wasn't that awesome because she used her youki too much, i.e. to complete her tasks she needed to do it, so unless she was against the abyssals (which is not impossible I guess, maybe MiB tried to exterminate Isley or Riful in the past and because of failure they've started soul-link project) it would mean she was nowhere near Priscilla's level. As for having so many cuts and dying for so long, Miria's case was similar so some other Claymore having more youki could withstand more.
I wouldn't be surprised if next chapter would look like the scene where Rigulad instantly killed Flora. It would be quite an opening seeing Miria being insta-killed and everyone scattering in panic. Although seeing how Yagi has started to change the way he tells his story and from dark fantasy it has become your average shounen (seeing how Deneve and Helen became invincible surviving Isley, AEs, horde of hellcats and even Priscilla and Miria being "resurrected") I wouldn't be surprised if Miria could keep up with one of the 3 and even have the advantage until her opponent would awaken. I hope I won't see anything like that though.
We also have Claymore Ophelia who survived a good amount of time despite, the quite a lot of cuts and blood loss, from Irene's Quick Sword too.
We also have Claymore Jean who survived Dauf's Rod-Ramming torture for quite a long time
We got Deneve surviving (due to Regeneration) some massive injuries and lots of blood loss
We got Cynthia surviving as well for quite a long time, from Infected Awakened Beth's attacks. (She can Regenerate herself, but she wasn't able to as she was nearly out of Yoki)
And, I"m sure there's many many more instances too.. that I'm forgetting about...
I too feel that Cassandra's feat isn't really that unique nor spectacular...
To wrap this up I'm going to say that Cassandra's feat is every bit as horrifying as the MIB made it out to be. Remember that the very act of Cassandra awakening, the explosion of yoki that came from her body tore the warriors around her to pieces. It seems to me that Cassandra awakened and as usual with awakened beings the MIB sent a team to deal with her. Whatever happened during that battle it was horrific because Cassandra had more than 100 wounds on her body and it took her hours still to die. A person can bleed to death in a few minutes so given that Cassandra took hours to die I highly doubt blood loss was the cause of death. It's "possible" but not probable. Her cause of death was more than likely a vital being punctured like say a heart, or lung. Yet she was still able to survive for hours. In all the cases you named HegemonKhan, the other Claymores were hardly facing the same circumstances. The Claymores you named were either NOT gravely wounded from the start (Ophelia, Jean) or they received first aid, yoki healing whatever (Deneve <on herself>, Cynthia <on herself/with help>) within minutes of being injured.
It is my position that Cassandra's "hype" is every bit as impressive as one would expect.
Yeah I like this. I like the way this feels.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 13, 2011 at 10:47 PM. Reason: I removed this line: That's all well and good but Nefnora's posts aren't exactly known for objectivity or accuracy are they?
If Raki or any oher human male managed to impregnate some Claymores, you would think they would get pregnant...
Well, since female Claymores are still human, you think they can get pregnant from human seed? Or male claymore seed?
You think a Claymore giving birth to a Claymore baby creature would have been an idea of the MiB people thought of already?
I wonder if those babies would awaken prematurally while in the belly. Would the Claymore female bidy be able to fathomly accustom the child?
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 13, 2011 at 10:20 PM. Reason: changed some words to more decent ones
I don't know if you're intentionally tactless or if you really wish to know. But I'll be happy to answer.
Does anyone else have questions for Zero Phoenix?
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 13, 2011 at 10:25 PM. Reason: changed some words to more decent ones
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM.
I still don't see the spectacle of Cassandra's damage vs anyone else's damage.
those Claymores were quite damaged, so what's more spectacular about Cassandra's damage?
I think I forgot to mention Raquel (however you spell her name, lol), the Claymore "messenger" who died in Clare's arms, which prompted Clare to take on Dauf+Riful in the Witches Maw chapters.
Also, if Cassandra is an Awakened when the damage to her occured... we've seen Awakeneds take some extreme damage too...
Priscilla, Isley, the Hellcats, the AFs, Riful, Dauf, and etc...
Also, while I don't pretend to understand the differences/circumstances, Claymores can die from "normally fatal injuries", while other times, Claymore's seem impervious to such "normally fatal injuries", as well.
Understand exactly what kills a Claymore vs what doesn't, is quite a nightmare, that I won't even try to take on in understanding it.
the reproduction topic has definately been discussed before, lol.
1. There has been no pregnancies, no births, so therefore, there are no pregnancies, no births.
2. why would Yagi get into the mess of births, when we don't even know how they're created artifically, lol. There's just zero point from a practical-lterary reason to get into the mess of births.
now there actually is a good bit of suggestion that pregnancy might be possible, the "act" of reproducing is definately possible, straight from Agatha's lips to the handsome Cid, ~"My you're a handsome human, I think I'll let you enjoy me, before I rip you apart and bathe in your blood. I do have the entire, and I mean entire, human female anatomy, Ciddy baby!" There's other examples too, but Agatha is good enough, lol.
she could have got and been pregnant and given birth as a human, before she got mutated into a Claymore, so that could explain if she does indeed produce milk.
also, in emergencies in the real world, even male humans can produce milk, lol
so, if Miata really needed to have milk, it could have caused an emergency in Clarice's body to start producing milk for Miata.
but, I'll definately wait for a female to address this with more expertise, lol.
Wow, very detailed summary about the AFs, Khan-kun, many thanks for the good job! ^^, though I still stand on my opinion that AFs have nothing to do with Youki, hehe
I too didnt think ( and want to think) that Clare would settle with just that! but she hadnt showed any sign so far. She might be an idiot, but no fool. Galatea used to say Clare might not response to the outside, because she knew of the consequences.
I dont think Galatea would pull Clare out from the black blob. She, more than anyone, must have known what's inside that thing. And if she wants aid for the ghosts, instead of calling for Clare, which may lead to another outburst of a disaster, may request aid from Miata/Clarice. And what if Clare wouldnt break the blob, but Priss herself??
Hmm, I'm not sure about this, but by the way Galatea acted, she seemed to show no interest in the battle, so I dont know if she would put on her warrior garment again.
My thought is, the blob would break, by Clare/Priss or even Galatea, then Clare along with the Destroyer head to the org and end that battle, while Priss would be caught in the Holy City by Galatea/Miata/Clarice. The problem is will Clare be able to overcome the hatred she bears for so long to go and help her comrades. But who knows, there are so many possibility, and it's Claymore, we should expect the unexpectable, I think.
And you're right, once vengeance is in her sight, she would block out all others, as long as her comrades dont get in danger
Though I dont think he's a fool either, instead he's got some achievements, breaking the deadlock between the org and AOs, getting to know about Priss, experimenting on new species, testing the effectiveness of an anti-warrior weapon (No.10 Rafutela), and if he manages to suppress this rebellion, then it would be a full reset on the whole continent after it had been put in chaos recently (oh gosh, that sounds so godlike, hehe).
As for the biology issue, if you guys could wait for a couples of years, hopefully I would be able to answer that, expertly. (-.-')
Last edited by ~.~; June 14, 2011 at 10:45 AM.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 14, 2011 at 09:36 PM. Reason: made a few very minor edits
Clare does care about others very much, but "if push comes to shove", she cares more about her revenge on Priscilla.
Rafaela's "weak heart" (her kindness, compassion, softness, caring-ness, and loving-ness) resulted in losing her beloved older sister Luciela.
Miria's "weak heart" we had thought resulted in her death, lol.
Raftela's "weak heart" infuriated Rimuto and got her (presumably) killed (unless she "pulls a Miria").
Teresa's "weak heart" (only gradually after meeting Clare, lol) got her killed by Priscilla
and now let's look at Clare:
Clare saw first hand what a "weak heart" resulted in, the death of her beloved Teresa.
If Clare was to ever have a chance at getting revenge against Priscilla, she had to "Steel" her heart cold, much like Rafaela had done after her beloved Luciela was stuck as an AO. As she wouldn't want her heart to be weakened and have a deva ju of Teresa with herself...
except that's (nearly) exactly what (censored) happened !!!!! ...
Clare had successfully steeled her heart cold and ruthless, as seen by her in ch 1, nearly killing Raki with her own sword, lol
(damned Raki, he doesn't know the first rule about manga girls: Don't ever come up from behind on a manga girl, if you value your life !!!)
but, than just like with Teresa with Clare, Raki had caused her "weak heart" to return, Clare became soft again, just like Teresa had become soft from Clare.
Clare with her "weak heart" (thanks/no thanks to Raki) began to help and care about others again, going out of her way to help/save/protect other Claymores, as well as humans too.
Well, Clare finally meets up with Priscilla... and guess what... Clare is with her "weak heart", ("harsh/tough love") caringly telling her beloved friends, Deneve and Helen, to get lost as she cares about their lives! Clare is too concerned with others, even as she tries to get angry and get revenge on Priscilla. But Clare's too soft, too "weak hearted", too weak.
And Priscilla is about to decapitate our beloved Clare, just like Teresa, Deja Vu, and Clare realizes it, and starts bawling/crying her head off, lying on the ground, about to be killed in the same fashion as Teresa was, but thankfully, my heroes, Deneve and Helen, rescued my beloved Clare from a deja vu death by priscilla.
(I'm getting tired... argh... need to stop... sorry)
here's some manga content that supports Clare ultimately caring more about revenge than anything else:
Clare Compendium Thread
here's my large post on Clare:
and to highlight one of my better parts of it, about Clare's Desire for Revenge:
Originally Posted by HegemonKhan
Can everyone please post any future posts that are about Clare in this thread, Clare Compendium Thread, as it was made for discussing about the character Clare.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; June 14, 2011 at 09:28 PM.