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The aliens are treating us like animals. We treat our own animals barbarically. Unless you're one of those super-vegetarians or whatever that won't even drink milk and shit.
We like to think that we are better than that. It comes down to having a superior brain. We've got a greater capacity for thinking and emotion, and we like to think that that means something. In general, people have some sense or respect for life (although it's quickly discarded during times of war). This respect for life theoretically extends to any creature with similar intelligence.
These aliens seem almost like humans, the only real difference being that don't have any regard for the intelligence of other creatures or for their innocence.
Still, it's hard to judge. We've seen so much mindless cruelty and then out of nowhere there's an announcement that somewhere out there in the minority there are vegetarians.
I believe that no matter what their stance on meat is, these aliens look down on humans as little more than beasts or pets. Until proven otherwise. The aliens can't really be blamed for not giving a shit. And neither can humans. The civilians think this is some sort of game... Fuck them.
ForeverRain: Lighten up. It's like day 2 of the invasion and the human race is fucked. Then there's this old bitch and her kid playing around with stray humans. Education is not an option. We haven't even dealt with intolerance in real life, so while "re-education" is a fine idea, it's not even an option at this point (although I like the idea that you can take people (especially children) and structure their entire way of looking at the world. So much for free will).
"They don't know any better" is not, and has never, been good enough. If humanity had the power they would have wiped all of these aliens out by now. Indeed, America seems to have got right down to it and tried to bring down one of the motherships.
In every real war the side that has all the power always fucks around with civilians. Even today. We like to think that innocent civilians count for something, but in reality they don't.
@SK-Hao: Everything those soldiers have done is weird. They're certainly suspicious.
Finally there's Cherry. AND NISHI! Glad to see that Takeshi's not dead. Now at least we know Nishi's not so much of a jerk to kill a kid
Lol I was being so curious to see if Cherry would kill the grandma and child, and was like "Don't do it, DON'T DO IT". Hope that poor boy gets better soon =/
P/S: Most of the characters here don't seem to care about their parents...at all...?
Now that Cherry is on the ship hopefully he blows himself up and destroys the ship.
So what you're saying is that when Caucasians treated Africans like animals, wouldn't let them vote, drink from the same fountain beat them etc etc. Instead of educating them that we are different and as smart and having non violent protest and turning the other cheek like Martin Luther King Jr. believed in. We should of just started murdering Caucasian kids and old ladies?
I guess now that the majority of Caucasians think of Africans as equals that they have been brainwashed huh?
Look, what the aliens did just as evil or worse than what the Nazis or Imperial Japan did to their victims, there's just no debating that. The aliens KNOW they're doing this to people since humans are obviously sentient.
I don't think anyone sane defends nazis or what the Japanese did in Manchuria (for example) by saying "look, they just saw non-germans/non-Japanese as noxious animals and since they were animals to them we have no moral ground to criticize them because we also kill our cows and pigs, don't we?" which is basically the animal-cruelty defense I see often repeated in this thread (by the way, I'm extremely opposed to animal cruelty be it for medical research or mass-produced food).
Another point: the aliens don't need to eat the humans. It's just something they add to the menu out of boredom.
Last edited by ghostunit; May 02, 2011 at 12:04 PM.
Either way there's no way to educate these aliens. The human race is fucked beyond belief now. The only way to stop the aliens is to destroy the motherships and everyone inside.
You think that any amount of education changed the racists at the time? For a lot of people it changed nothing about their assumptions. It takes generations to implement that kind of change and so far we haven't really succeeded, even in Western society. We've made some huge improvements though.
It takes time and a whole lot of resources. This kind of thing isn't possible within the 'Gantz' world.
Do I think the grandmother should die? Well I'm going to have to say that a human life is worth more than some aliens life. It is the attitudes of the civilians that help to perpetuate this massacre.
We don't even know if these creatures are capable of demonstrating a respect for other species. Depends on their biology, really.
Simply 'turning the other cheek' isn't good enough, and it's never been good enough. What do we do with groups like these? We go to war with them, we beat them into submission and force them to obey our laws, and then we educate them to behave differently.
If it's some deranged individual we restrain and isolate them from the rest of us.
We hate them. It's entirely justifiable not to sympathize with these monsters. Regardless of personal opinion, the only viable options at the moment are to obliterate the aliens or die.
That said did the Grandmother deserve to die? While she is in a position to harm people, she's unlikely to... is it ethical? No. But I wouldn't give a shit if she died. Fuck them. These guys aren't even KIND to pets. They just toss them out the fucking window for christ sake. They'll never be rehabilitated. Lol. I find it hard to believe there are vegetarians among the species.
@ghostunit: Agreed. These guys are essentially worse than the Nazi's. They're setting out to destroy another race and they don't appear to have any recognizable moral code for doing so. They'll nuke cities, farm humans, trick and deceive humans into marching to their own slaughterhouse etc.
The worst part is, the civilians seem to have no problem with any of this. They share the same mentality. There are no 'innocents'. They all want to see human kind either destroyed or enslaved.
What would you like to see happen to the alien civilians? I for one can't even imagine a peaceful resolution.
Also, don't forget America... dropping bombs on fucking civilian cities on PURPOSE. Holy shit.
The world is evil.
Last edited by Damura; May 02, 2011 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
We are animals bro. I agree with your kill or be killed mentality. But there is no need to kill the old woman and child. The threat as it would appear in that slide is minimal. I get the whole, "kill everyone" mantra, but there can be some exceptions imo. Oku is trying to show how similar the aliens are to us. We kill other species in, "meat houses", we have billboards, we have families, cars, houses, government, etc. If cherry loses his shit right meow its gonna look bad on all the gantzers and fuel this terrorist hate propaganda thing going on by the aliens.
"As for his voices... I doubt he can speak to the dead. It's not even certain that he's talking to Tonkotsu. He mentioned her in this chapter but that was before the voices started. I think he was just reminiscing or whatever about her death, as he started to realize that not all of these aliens are responsible. THEN the voices started."
I like this theory. seems logical.
"Even if he is talking to "Tonkotsu", it's sounds more like an auditory hallucination to me than him speaking to the dead. She's dead. Her brain has ceased to function. That's that."
lol. you're starting to sound like me.
@warbandit- care to eat those words about nishi? pffft. dead from a kids hip slam? cmon.
It's okay though, when all is said and done and all of this brutality is put behind us it will be said that all of this took place in the past and should just be forgotten about. These aliens are almost exactly the same as humans, it's like one nation committing crimes against another, something we do all too often.
I'm not convinced. These aliens seem far crueler than humans. Well at least, humans in western civilisation today. 99% of them are indifferent to any human suffering.
You'd expect normal humans to at least care about this kind of stuff when it's right in their faces. These guys genuinely don't give a shit.
@mcd693: Yeah I know we're mammals, or whatever. We're still better than everything else though.
Not all aliens are cruel... that alien grandma and her granddaughter seems nice and good... not sure if they are pretending...
Last edited by firebo14; May 02, 2011 at 10:11 PM.
The kid was treating it as some sort of game. Both the grandmother and kid view humans as insects. But at least they offered him some egg. -.-
Lol they're totally clueless.
I don't think it's as simple as human beings being evil. humans have primitive genes that are restricted by today's rules and ethics. we've enslaved ourselves and we abuse because of it. after africans were freed from slavery we can see that we are all enslaved mentally and are now commodities with value (as long as we contribute).
the aliens are even more advanced than us so they have probably dealt with our situation to an extreme. that's why we are bugs. their advanced genes are still primitive in that it is their nature to destroy to live.
it's unlikely to come to a peaceful resolution. the aliens and humans are most similar in our use of force to cope. Even with a happy ending someone is going to lose and it won't be fair. I'd like to see a third alien group join the invasion with different values.
einstein said that after world war 3, world war 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.
So what your saying this all boils down to is that cherry isn't going to kill the old woman or kid giant, and he is going crazy from voices in his head.
Cherry is basically a species-ist. He hates them as a whole based on what only a few of them did.
All I have to say is that if Tae-chan happens to stay alive throughout this war and ends up with Korono again, it better look God-damn believable with an amazingly genius-like reason. Cause I'm having a hard time believing that a girl with her degree of mental-capacity/moral-quality can witness so much and live through it all to this extent by just running away and screaming the name of her beloved in a world dangerously unfamiliar to her.
Maybe it was not necessary, but I think it was needed to be done. The Japanese were in no mood to bring a quick end to the war - a war in which the number of casualties in Nagasaki was about equal to the number of Chinese civilians the Japanese were murdering in an average week. The Japanese needed to be convinced that they could lose another city, and another, and another. Keep in mind that the Japanese deaths of all causes in the entire war numbered about two million, and half their cabinet felt they could sustain another twenty million if need be.
America tried to negotiate but the stubborn Japanese refused. Therefore we had only 2 other options, invade Japan or launch the atomic bombs. Instead of wasting a bunch of Japanese and American lives, we decided to kill the Japanese and save the Americans. Even after the first bomb was dropped, Japan did not surrender so America bombed them again until they finally agreed. Besides, there would have been almost more amount of casulties if we invaded Japan with an amphibious invasion style instead.
Last edited by Asahina; May 03, 2011 at 03:32 PM.