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Thread: Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi take on the world

  1. #46
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Omiem's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi take on the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenade View Post
    This is a good point. I admit I didn't recall that scene correctly at all. I'm puzzled how he directed it with Respira (?). My argument isn't affected because my point is that he couldn't do this if her Ban Kai wasn't bad in use.
    He simply aged the energy?
    Quote Quote:
    Yes. But if she loses a great deal of reiatsu with each blast, which is apparent, then her "reiatsu pool" would be much smaller to draw from each time, right? It wouldn't make any sense if each blast was a strong as the one before, that would be senseless even by Kubo standards. She doesn't have infinite reiatsu. At best, it could be equal for two blasts, by assuming she uses a fixed amount for each missile. Thats because I seriously doubt she would be generating explosions of that first missile magnitude with anything less than half her reiatsu.
    We don't know the internal mechanics on how Soifon's Bankai works, or her Reiatsu output, which is my main point here.
    Quote Quote:
    Of course it would. Imagine if she didn't have to tie it down and could just fire from anywhere, without it being so heavy etc. She could Shunpo right next to/behind him and fire at close range and also outrun her own explosion. He would not be able to defend himself from that. The same Ju-Ni link you gave me, mentions, on the very next page, the importance of the distance -

    http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch369-18.png

    and just earlier....

    http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch369-16.png

    The point of the barriers was never to contain Barragan or the blast. It was to stop him from widening the distance. Sure, the blast would get a nice bonus too, but that wouldn't matter if she could just shoot him properly in the first place. She clearly had enough power already. Like I said, the only reason he stopped her first blast was because she was far away and he had time to do it. Thats what I'm getting at this whole time. Without inconvenience, a couple missiles would end him. He can't do this against people that can generate similar or greater power but much more quickly and efficiently. His defensive capability is overrated.
    The purpose of closing the distance was to make sure that the missile would make contact with Barragan's body. Based on this panel, it's clear that Barragan missed a direct hit, since his left arm and right eye socket survived, but his right arm and left eye socket were blown away(this also proves TDF is not throughly consistent in terms of strength). If the missile did make contact on Barragan, then his entire body would've been obliterated, not just his right arm and left eye socket. So Barragan could've either dodged the missile(especially when he's shitting bricks), or had just enough time to age it. I do believe that a direct hit(without Hachi's barrier) would obliterate Barragan, but I don't see Soifon accomplishing that feat even if her Bankai was more convenient. Reason being is because her Bankai is a linear attack(unless it's a heat seeking missile), which means that Soifon can still easily miss. The other reason is the possibility that Barragan was still fast enough to use Respira and detonated the missile while inside of Hachi's barrier. My final reason is the TDF that surrounds Barragan, which would automatically protect Barry from a direct hit since he used that same defensive ability to re-direct the initial explosion away from himself. So you're right that part of the reason was to close the distance for a direct hit, but that was just a bonus, since it wasn't a guarantee. The main reason was to condense the blast force, because we all know Barragan can't escape the entire explosion while inside the barrier. Besides, even if Soifon did shoot her Bankai from such a close distance, she would still be at risk of getting caught by the explosion regardless. Fortunately, Hachi's barrier was there to protect Soifon by containing most of the blast force. So in conclusion, I'd say it'll still be very difficult for Soifon to injure Barragan without Hachi's barrier due to her Bankai's lack of flexibility(even with better convenience).
    Quote Quote:
    I agree with most of this. But don't downplay the Black Coffin used back then. Not only is it Aizen, that was back when he was first introduced as villain and Kubo was hyping his power to the max. The same Sajin survived a massive sonic wave through his Ban Kai/chest by super-powered Kaname and arm chopped off by Aizen, and still kept coming. Like I said Barragan is overrated defensively. He'd be long dead before trying to age Black Coffin. There's a reason why he hated Aizen so much yet was still his dog.

    You should note that Kubo doesn't draw attacks to scale. Meaning attacks that "look more powerful" are not necessarily so. The person using them is more important. Aizen >>>>> Barragan/ Soi Fon.
    Temporarily taking out Komamura does not factually prove Hadou #90 is stronger than Soifon's Bankai, which is my main point here. Also, just because Aizen carries more Reiatsu than most captains, doesn't mean he always exerts more than them. But this is pointless anyways, since we both agree that Aizen would make Barragan look like fodder in the end.
    Last edited by Omiem; May 20, 2011 at 11:27 PM.

  2. #47
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi take on the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Serenade View Post
    KS power is intangible. You can't fight it physically. Things like that are an exception like I said. But WW was introduced for the sole reason of diminishing Yama's reiatsu use (RJ is his main way of channeling it) so I dunno.
    I know that KS and Respira are completely different. My point is that if Reiatsu can cancel out abilities like Respira and Suzumabachi, how does an illusion actually work just because it's indirect? You'd think there'd be an automatic stoppage of it when it tried to control a greater Reiatsu. Zommari should do a lot better in battle matchups then :P



    Quote Quote:
    I see what you mean. Really it is up to personal interpretation, because don't forget that we were under his illusion too! Aizen broke the 4th wall with that fiasco so its hard to tell what was real or not. I'm basing my belief on the fact that you can be under his spell but not seeing a fake until the precise moment he wills it. Like against Hallibel, she was hypnotized already but he didn't use an actual illusion until she attacked him. Then the real Aizen was behind her in a flash and she was toast.
    Thing is, how do you know it was the real Aizen who originally cut her from the front? KS allows complete control of the five senses, you could cut someone in the back, and make them feel, see, and hear it in the front. Hell, you could not touch them at all if you wanted. I'm aware Aizen has never displayed (as far as we know) such tactics, but it's been emphasized MANY times that he has complete control over the 5 senses, so it's always a possibility. Hell, look how Aizen was beaten, by making him too power-drunk to to even use his damn ability Funnily enough, Barragan had the arrogance factor to limit him as well.



    Quote Quote:
    Respira itself is an awesome defense, I'm not denying that. But it can only take you so far. I explained why already. As for what you just said, thats because he's a skeleton. He didn't have a brain (in so many ways lol) or any internal organs in that form, so yeah he was still talking from what would normally be a kill shot. But he should still die from being blown to pieces. Either the Respira would get into him or he would get weakened and revert to his base form like the other Espada and then you could kill him easy.
    Respira itself isn't really a defense, the Time Dilation Field however is, and it's a damn good one. Getting a rocket in the face and point blank and having a passive defense allow you to live through it without serious injuries (for a skeleton) is an awesome defense in my mind

    And yeah, the only way to kill him is probably to blow him into pieces, but that in itself is an awesome durability "feat" isn't it? I think his defense is crazy good because of both of those two factors.



    Quote Quote:
    Aizen's illusions can't hurt you (even though they really should because KS can control feel). Kubo never once used them like that. The real Aizen (or minions) have to attack you after you get tricked. Thats the pattern we saw in the whole manga. Chalk it up to poor writing.
    I wouldn't say poor writing, but just limiting Aizen for the sake of him not being TOO cheap. Which I guess WAS poor writing in the initial stage of creating his ability

  3. #48
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Kazu-Sama's Avatar
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    Re: Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi take on the world

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen View Post
    Shunsui, ukitake, and starks beats them right at the beginning.
    I feel the people in this forum really underestimate the seniors.

    Ukitake's shikai would make all of urahara's energy attacks moot.
    Shunsui can take on isshin
    Starks cero spam would own youruichi
    <hr noshade size="1">
    It all comes down to the match-ups. Ukitake may be able to redirect Urahara's attacks, but what about if Yoruichi were to fight him? No energy attacks = no redirection, and he gets pummeled. Urahara vs Shunsui would be a very close fight, and I deem Urahara to be ever-so-slightly better, but not by much at all. I think, therefore, that Urahara can beat Starkk (and most people) in a one-on-one. So if Isshin can survive long enough vs Shunsui, Shunsui gets 3-on-1'd and beaten. Similarly, I think that if Urahara fights Shunsui he'd win, and then go and help Isshin. And With Yoruichi's speed she'll be able to jump onto Ukitake before anyone else moves...

    Next round, I can't see Urahara losing to Barragan. Harribel can get KO'd by any of them, and as Barragan's Respira doesn't seem to be able to be aimed at more than one person he gets double-teamed.

    Round 3, Yoruichi beats Tousen, Urahara can beat base AiZen, without KS. Urahara can also beat Gin. Isshin can probably hold one of them off while Urahara beats the other, then help Yoruichi while Urahara beats the other one.

    Round 4, I think if Isshin stays back and GT's Shinji/WW, or Urahara Benihime's from a distance, they'll win easily. a CQC Yoruichi would require Shinji to activate his Sakanade, and while one of the fighters is at long range they can beat Shinji before it hits them. Then WW gets stomped.

    As for the last fight, I think Urahara, Yoruichi and Isshin can beat Yamamoto. I don't really have any evidence for this, as Yamamoto hasn't shown us any attacks and therefore I don't know which strategy would be best, but if Urahara can come so close to beating AiZen single-handedly, then I think that combined with a GT and Yoruichi would win...

    Epic Brofist!

  4. #49
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi take on the world

    The trio gets nowhere, shunsui and stark together is just too strong.

  5. #50
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Isshin, Urahara and Yoruichi take on the world

    Match-ups are iffy. The way Shunsui and Ukitake fight aren't sitting there fighting one person at a time. They team up and know eachother's every move. Play bait for the other, absorb one attack and throw it at you or someone else. They go to dodge it or counter it, here comes Shunsui- you move away from him Ukitake is there again. Sure other teams can do the same, but these two have trained together, went to the academy together, been captains together, for longer than any tandem there is in Bleach. That right there should be worth a lot. Not even mentioning Yama's own words about their combined abilities being better than anyone.

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