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Translations: Gintama 515 by kewl0210
I was wondering just now - what is the extent of Shunsui's Shikai? By this I mean, in a situation in which Shunsui is fighting more than one opponent, or has an ally fighting besides him, do the games apply to everyone?
For instance, can multiple opponents be forced to play Iraoni simultaneously? Will someone who fights alongside Shunsui be included in the "game"? Does Shunsui choose who plays, or is it up to his Zanpaktou?
My current opinion is that he must fight an opponent for a while, as with Starrk, before his Zanpaktou recognizes the enemy as enough of a threat for her to "get in the mood", and make the enemy the subject of his games. Right now I don't believe he can just direct the games at whoever he chooses. Perhaps that's the nature of his Bankai - the ability to subject anyone he chooses to his games at any time. I would be interested to hear what others thought of this.
He said that if anyone is within his sword's Reiatsu range, they have to play.
I ASSUME that means it can apply to more than 2 people, but it's hard to say.
Last edited by Takahashi; April 23, 2011 at 09:58 PM.
That's why I assumed Love and Rose backed off. You saw Love's face when he said "that's..." He knew Shunsui was there from his sword and the shadow probably. I'm guessing here because captains usually have a general idea what they're capable of. To further confirm my theory was after the fight with Starrk, Love says "you're still the same..." I'm guessing if he's able to tell us that, he's implying he's seen Shunsui fight before. Ya get me?
its everyone within his reiatsu range, that includes him, i think their are more abilities to his shikai than what he showed during the stark battle, what im more curious about is his bankai, he was forced to use it, until ukitake interfered and stopped him, because it isn't something to be shown with others around,
i think his bankai is an even more deadly game,
like for instance his bankai will effect everyone around him even if his reiatsu cant reach them, that includes his allies, and really deadly rules for example the person who is cut first dies or the person who hasn't cut someone before the time limit dies
i just hope they have a really good reason for not showing it
was shunsui's reiatsu so great that his games completely nullified stark's abilities? (wolves and ceros?)
shinji(vizard leader) needed mask to overwhelm an injured, 1 armed grimmjow(6th espada) without landing one slash on him (shinji said he wasn't holding back too). love (shinji's subordinate) with mask+shikai managed to overwhelm stark(1st espada), tank all of his attacks with ease before stark had to call the wolves out. even with those wolves stark couldn't inflict any visible injury to love and rose except burn them a little and maybe fry their reiatsu a bit.
stark also became exponentially slower/lost the ability to sonido when shunsui called out the colour game since he got cut numerous times while shunsui couldn't get a hit on him while stark was fighting him unreleased. shunsui did throw his haori in front of stark but keep in mind that shunsui also did that once before with his hat and stark dodged with his sonido without problems. shunsui also managed to tank the hit with relative ease while stark called out white in the colour game(stark's appearence wasn't any less white than shunsui black when shunsui took off his captain haori). whereas stark then got wtfpwned when shunsui called black, despite arrancar meant to have hierro. cero was also pretty deadly (at least something you'd bother to dodge) before stark started to use them.
the whole fight was a joke if you think about it. it's not ridiculous to say the likes of zommari and grimmjow can take down stark if they tried.
when you think the espada can't possibily fail more you recall hallibel's performance against hitsugaya.
Last edited by HaouLelouch; May 01, 2011 at 09:24 AM.
at the end of the Starkk fight love and rose were exhausted and shunsui was quite tired aswell and also injured quite abit. Reiatsu can be used to decrease the damage done to someone by hardening someone his skin/clothes (kenpachi is a example of this).
The vizard have no real hierarchie, Shinji is just the oldest captain of them all but I doubt he is the one in charge and they treat eshoulder equal.
We have to remind the only the top 3 espada are possible/confirmed Vasto lodre and the rest are all Adjuchas.
Yes and Vasto Lodre should be stronger then a regular captain and only stark was able to do so, while the other espada were adjuchas who are normaly on Luitant level. The adjuchas espada all took on captains so they should've been quite even in power where it that the hougyoku was used awakened (which it was not, it was forced to awaken but quite likely it wouldn't release it full power which it only did on aizen when merged with it).
What did most of you guys expect? That all espada were able to take on and defeat the captains? SS are supposed to be good guys and the have to win.
We did not expect the Espada to win, but you must be conceited if you think their loss wasn't pathetic at best. Look how mad Aizen got. Also Aizen did use KS to take down the captain level opponents which he had done on numerous occasions so I don't see what's wrong there. I could use a similar argument to the one you used, 'you think the main antagonist is going to lose to someone other than the main character?'
Stark, the primera got downed in 2 slashes from a Shikai. Like I said before his wolves weren't powerful enough to blow the body parts of love and Rose off who have no hierro, unlike ichigo's cero that blew ulquiorra apart who had one of the strongest hierros/highest reiatsu up to date. His ceros were also unbelievably weak.
Hallibel did about the same amount of damage to hitsu's bankai in the fight as luppi did in one attack, while hitsugaya himself being completely unharmed.
Also didn't kubo say most of the Espada were vasto lorde? Though it doesn't matter anyway because even the top 3(exclude barry, include yammy) could be adjucas going from their pathetic performance. Even Aizen was genuinely shocked at how shit they were, something that rarely happens.
Last edited by HaouLelouch; May 05, 2011 at 02:05 PM.
The deaths of the top 2 Espada (#1 and #2 that is) were very contrived - they clearly outmatched their opponents in terms of Reiatsu / base skills, but Kubo devised a way of allowing the underdogs (in this case the Captains) to win, because Espada are enemies and are therefore expendable in Bleach terms, whereas the Captains need to stay alive for continuity purposes.
Starrk got backstabbed, lost his resolve and finally was momentarily distracted by Shunsui's final trick. Barragan had to lose by having his own ability turned on him by basically the only person who was able to do it.
Not to mention that Hallibel didn't lose to anyone - she was taken down by Aizen while using KS. Sure she would have been taken out by HH, but who wouldn't be? It seems to be a ridiculously hax move. As for Ulquiorra, Ichigo needed to basically go full hollow to defeat him - the Ichigonator form is arguably more powerful than any of the Captains bar Yama and Aizen.
So I'm not going to be convinced that the Espada sucked - they lost due to plot contrivances, the top Espada were all high Captain level, they just didn't have Captain level plot armor
lol@ outclassed their opponents abilities. Shunsui forced Starrk to play a game dude, once that happened it was game over. Shunsui explicitly explained that ANYONE within Katen Kyokotsu's reiatsu is forced to play by the rules, including himself. So even though he is in charge of initiating the games, he only dictates which game to play. He doesn't have 'cheat codes' or whatever. So when you say things like he was outclassed, that's totally wrong. Shunsui got back-shot, totally lost his resolve when his BEST friend was impaled from behind by a kid- kids whom which they sworn not to fight. But all we see is excuses for Starrk sympathizers. No excuses for Shunsui though. Why do we have threads like this? Why can't the abilities just be discussed instead of always bringing up stupid opinions about 'he cheated', or 'he used a cheap shot'? Starrk shot Shunsui in the back, point blank. He ate a bullet and got up. If you read into the 'resolve' crap, Starrk got his resolve back when Lillynette pep-talked him into using his full abilities, that is splitting his soul and making them into weapons. I could argue that and then say Shunsui got his resolve back when he seen his old V/C try to show him how strong she was.
Espada were crap...
I'd typed a decent reply but honestly right I'm in a super lazy mood and
HaouLelouch's second post....I agree with most of it so you can take that as my rebuttal for now
Using three characters to save a group of 10 doesn't really help when the majority fail (thats why I said overall). There are parts where the Espada shine but seriously all things concerned in retrospect, they sucked.
I think Shunsui's shikai has very hax abilities, otherwise he wouldn't stand a chance against Starrk. Kageoni is a very hax move, if it weren't for Kageoni, IMHO Shunsui couldn't stab Starrk in the back, neither could other people, Starrk would simply dodge the attack.
Irooni is another hax ability, I may be misreading the ability but I think Starrk's wolves and ceros were useless against Shunsui after Shunsui called the color gray because Shunsui didn't have any gray on him. Starrk's wolves were very hax and IMHO any ability that can counter it must be as hax.
I'm not sure how Takaoni and Bushogoma work but they seem to be less hax. I think Shunsui's shikai has to be in the mood to use its better abilities, this is how the manga limits the degree of its hax. lol