Sasori vs Sasuke

[Plyr88]

That's not accurate. Sasori can only move his chakra canister into other puppets. If he's only in Hiruko or hasn't managed to summon his hundred puppets (which is a very real possility), then taking out the one puppet ends him. Also, yes, he does have greater endurance in the sense that he has an impenetrable defense that allows him to attack while protected. Sasori however, has no defensive options outside of his inferior speed, or him being able to hop to another puppet.

Long-range makes up for so-called inferior speed which is why Sasuke had so much trouble with Deidara despite him having an elemental advantage.

What I was referring to is this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v31/c272/7.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v31/c272/8.html

Sasori's body can reform at will even if the heart isn't touching the actual puppet body. I'm assuming that's a part of his ability as a human puppet. The only reason he needed to drop his heart directly into another puppet was because his chakra was being suppressed by Chiyo.

She didn't start being moved by Chiyo until later in the fight. And Chiyo didn't make Sakura capable of reading Sasori's attacks. If a weak fighter like Sakura is that capable of following his movements there's nothing he can overcome Sasuke with when it comes to movement speed.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v30/c265/10.html

Chiyo said you need to have instant reaction to avoid AND knowledge of his attack patterns. Sakura admitted she had neither and you think she was the one dodging?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v30/c266/5.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v30/c266/6.html

Sasori pointed it out here that Chiyo was controlling Sakura in order to avoid the traps (this is at the beginning when he was in Hiruko btw) and Sakura admitted that Sasori figured it out.

That's flatout untrue. Omoi proved chakra charged weaponry can cut through chakra strings, meaning Sasuke can do the exact same. Also, we know for a fact chakra charged weaponry shreds through matter like a hot knife through butter. It simply makes the annihilation of the puppets that much faster.

Obviously, what I said in that quote went straight over your head. I didn't say Sasuke couldn't cut the strings. I said Sasori can use whatever is around to misdirect the strike.

If you know basics of fighting, you know someone attacking with a knife, punch, etc...you don't have to be physically stronger to misdirect the strike. Pushing something slightly to the side when it's coming straight will misdirect it no matter how strong the straight pushing force.

He did speedblitz Deidara. Despite them having an equal speed stat he forced him to have to use a bomb to boost himself away, and stated that he was too fast for him. Sasori was incapable of overwhelming Sakura or Chiyo with his speed, yet he's gonna overwhelm Sasuke? Care to explain this logic?

He didn't speedblitz Deidara. Deidara said he was fast, but Deidara comfortably dodged him. Tobi was the one who said Sasuke's shunshin was too fast, although he may just have been joking around because Deidara didn't seem to have too big of a problem. I'm talking about this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v39/c357/9.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v39/c357/10.html

You're talking about this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v39/c357/14.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v39/c357/15.html

That's not a speedblitz. It's just a sneak attack.

You said Sasori didn't speedblitz Sakura/Chiyo. Maybe you don't understand what a long-range fighter is at all. Long-range fighters have no reason to speedblitz BECAUSE THEY ARE LONG-RANGE FIGHTERS. It's not in his fighting style to speedblitz because that goes against his battle plan.

Not piercing. Swiping. Literally cutting them all into pieces with each swing. It's not about reaching Sasori so much as it is another defensive option against multiple oncoming opponents. With his attack speed and the range of the weapon (and the fact that none of his puppets can survive the attack) Sasuke has an attack that both protects him and deminishes enemy numbers without resorting to Susanoo.

Where'd you got the idea that the attack only goes straight?

The time he takes to swipe at a few of the puppets, he isn't going to be able to defend the attacks of the other puppets coming. Yes, even that one second means something because Sasori has traps. They are meant to surprise you.

Sasuke does not have the Byakugan. He cannot see behind him. He cannot read the movements of 100 puppets coming at him at once. They do not even have to stab him. They can just launch needles from his blindspot. Hell, Sasuke can't even do anything from a poisonous Iron Sand barrage.

Once again, Chiyo wasn't manipulating Sakura when all the other puppets were around, and she was oneshotting puppets left and right. With greater speed, power, and ranged options than Sakura Sasuke can play the waiting game, only attempting Susanoo when the bigger attacks come. And throughout the entire time he knows where the real Sasori is. At any moment he can simply look at him and immolate him with Amaterasu.

This is all under the assumption that Sasori manages to get all his puppets out.

I already gave proof that Chiyo was controlling Sakura from the Hiruko portion of the fight. Clearly, you didn't even understand what was happening in this fight. One-shotting puppets left and right?

It takes about a second for him to look and use Amaterasu on Sasori. When you're being attacked by swarm of poisonous puppets and Iron Sand, that one second is death.

You're aware that when the Kazekage puppet is destroyed it can't control Satetsu anymore, correct? It'll be destroyed as easily as every other puppet can. Likewise, Sasuke is capable of nuking the entire battlefield with giant dragon shaped fireballs, Susanoo arrows, Amaterasu, or Kirin. ALL almost at the same damn time. Sasori sure as hell ain't winning a firefight. Your best bet is trying to think up a way he can sneak in some poison.

First off, Sasori can block those fireballs with the Iron Sand. LOL if you think that Iron Sand will be incinerated. Second, Sasori again is a LONG-RANGE fighter. He uses the Kazekage doll from long-range. WTF is Amaterasu going to do when you have a barrage of Iron Sand coming your way? Amaterasu the sand? LOL, fine. GG Sasuke.

---

It was hidden by the fact that Chiyo didn't know about it. She didn't know that Sasori was a puppet til he emerged from Hiruko and she didn't know about the core until basically the end of their fight when he switch to another puppet. Sasuke would be able to see that not only is Sasori a puppet, but that the only living part of him is the core.

Chiyo didn't know Sasori was a human puppet. It doesn't mean he was hiding the fact. She hadn't seen him in years.

She didn't know about the core until the end of the fight? The core was there in plain sight when he took his robe off to summon the 100 puppets. Plus, she knows what it takes to make a human puppet so she knows there would be a a chakra source around.

Orochimaru and Kabuto even joked about how Sasori put his weak spot out in the open. He wasn't hiding anything.

Um, that's how real puppets are moved, by strings moving their joints. Thus the reason we see the chakra strings attached to various parts of the puppets. We have also seen that a single chakra string can be split into separate strings. Not to mention, that by your logic, there would be no way for a puppeteer to control a living person, yet we know it's perfectly possible.

Chiyo controlled 10 puppets with 10 fingers. Obviously she doesn't have strings attached to every joint of each puppet so it's ONE PUPPET, ONE STRING yet she's still controlling them. =\

Controlling humans =/= controlling lifeless puppets. You can put chakra into lifeless things. It's more difficult to do that with a living human. Plus, whenever these puppeteers deal with 1 or 2 puppets/humans, THEN they'll attach the strings to their limbs for better control. Nevertheless, we have seen that ONE PUPPET, ONE STRING is possible and they still control the puppet's every movements.

We seen Sasuke match up against the fastest ninjas in the series, endure massive damage in several battles, and repeatably being called a genius.

Sasuke has multiple attacks that can instantly kill. And one does not past out from Sasori's poison right away.

Thank you for giving his resume. Just having certain techniques doesn't ensure victory. You have to hit the person first.

Sasuke would have effectively died 3 times vs Bee, yet you want to mention that?

1) Bee cut his ass up (Saved by all of Taka)
2) Bee ripped his chest apart (Saved by Juugo)
3) Bijuu blast (Saved by Suigetsu)

Sasuke depended on MS to simply survive Ae's attacks and he still was going to die in the end. Albeit, Ae was probably going to burn up soon after, but Sasuke would still have his skull cracked before Ae succumbed to the flames.

Now if we're done discussing Sasuke's track record. Let's get back to the topic.

It was Sakura's speed. Chiyo can't force Sakura to move faster. We know that Sakura was already that fast from the fact that she later is able to doge Sasori's attacks even without Chiyo controlling her. It doesn't matter how much it takes to redirect the sword, if Sasori attempted it, Sasuke would notice the chakra string. He can see the chakra and thus he would be able to counteract it. Sasuke kept up with both Kirabi and Ee. Sasuke specifically mentioned how simple it was to keep up with Kirabi. Sasuke was only injured because of Kirabi's surprised him. Sasuke was never directly blitzed. And Sasuke was able to keep up with Ee. Sasuke's speed isn't overrated, especially when multiple ninjas have made a comment on it. We have actually seen Sasuke move over huge distances in the blink of an eye. Also, you keep bring up Deidara and completely ignoring that Sasuke purposely let him go so that he could question him. Sasuke even tells him that.

I already explained why it wasn't Sakura's speed. Puppeteers FORCE the movements of the puppets. It depends on how fast the puppeteer moves the fingers. Sasori already explained Chiyo was the reason Sakura dodged and moved the way she did. LOL the two biggest Sasuke supporters not even understanding what happened in this fight.

So Sasuke is going to defend against 100 puppets, attack Sasori and then stop Sasori's attempt at redirection all at the same time? LOL why do I even bother.

Some ninjas said he was fast yet he never speedblitz anyone. Sasuke didn't want to kill Deidara but that doesn't mean he didn't want to attack him. He couldn't even land his attack when he was relatively close to a stationary Deidara.

Long range? They were closer then Sasuke was to the Hachibi, who he was able to use both the Chidori Spear and Amaterasu on. Sasuke doesn't need to know Hiruko's attack patterns since he can strike from wherever he wishes. And even if he needed to get close, all he would have to do is activate Susanoo and he would be able to get as close as he wants with absolutely no worry. Sasuke defeated a thousand ninjas without getting a drop of blood on him or killing any of them, which we have been told is much harder to do then fighting to kill. Unlike Sasori's puppets, which Sakura was able to fight on her own with little trouble, the Edo army is actually made up of powerful ninjas that can fight on their own. Um, Susanoo's defense is a separate thing from Yata Mirror. Sasuke's Susanoo doesn't have Yata Mirror, yet we have directly seen it protect him against multiple attacks. The only thing Yata Mirror did was give Itachi even more power. If Mei's lava couldn't go through the riblets, a needle isn't gonna get through the full version. Neither the puppets nor sand would prevent Sasuke from seeing the chakra of Sasori's core. Not to mention Sasori would fist have to summon said puppets before Sasuke strikes and that's would be a very hard task when Sasuke can simply blitz him the moment the battle starts.

Chiyo said you need to know Hiruko's attack patterns to be able to avoid it and you're saying you don't. I'll take the manga's word for it.

Sasuke is going to strike from long distance even when Hiruko's exploding arm sends out hundreds of needles?

Yata's Mirror was Susanoo's defense. That's why he obtained it. It doesn't add to Itachi's power (since it's a defense weapon =\). Why would he use it against Sasuke's kunais if the ribs were going to block them anyway? Fo the LULZ?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v50/c466/8.html

Mei's mist got in the ribs and started burning Sasuke's skin so there is no magical forcefield all around him =\

You keep saying "Sasori has to summon" as if it takes long to summon. He doesn't even do hand seals. They simply appear when he wants them to.

No, Sasori can't simply jump out of Hiruko. Sasori would first have to open Hiruko up, considering it's an puppet itself that he's in. And Sasuke wouldn't have to deal with Hiruko's traps. simply using Chidori Spear to stab at the glowing spot or shooting Amaterasu to burn the entire puppet would finish the whole battle right then. Sasuke wouldn't even have to move from the spot he's standing at.

Yawn, explained many times. Sasuke would be under constant attack. First off Sasuke would never fire off Amaterasu when he's under attack.

Go back and look at all the times Amaterasu was fired off. The opponent was not attacking at the time.

Itachi vs Sasuke - Sasuke was standing back waiting to defend
Sasuke vs Hachibi - Hachibi was standing there rapping
Sasuke vs Ae - Ae was standing there waiting to dodge
Sasuke vs Danzou - Danzou was in mid-air

It's retarded to fire off Amaterasu when you're dodging the barrage of poisonous attacks because more than likely you'll miss and waste chakra. The moment he stops to get a look at Sasori, he'll be hit. He'll be hit anyway since THE MANGA SAYS:

You have to have instant reaction AND know Hiruko's attack patterns.

Manga -1, Sasuke fans - 0

Sasori's body isn't full of chakra, otherwise he wouldn't be able to switch puppets like he did, and we know that the Sharingan can see chakra through other objects like dirt so it wouldn't have a problem seeing through wood.

Why wouldn't he be able to switch? The heart is supplying chakra to the body in order for it to move. Just like the chakra strings force the puppets to move, Sasori's heart supplies chakra to move the bodies so there is chakra throughout. By switching, the chakra source simply supplies another empty vessel with chakra.

[ninjabot]

Long-range makes up for so-called inferior speed which is why Sasuke had so much trouble with Deidara despite him having an elemental advantage.

What I was referring to is this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v31/c272/7.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v31/c272/8.html

Sasori's body can reform at will even if the heart isn't touching the actual puppet body. I'm assuming that's a part of his ability as a human puppet. The only reason he needed to drop his heart directly into another puppet was because his chakra was being suppressed by Chiyo.

Long range also limits Sasori's reaction time because it's stacked on top of the already noticeable lag from using kugutsu in the first place. Then, there's the whole "am I too far away to attack his blind spot when he presents it" problem. And I'd like to see a puppet regenerate while being burned to cinders.

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v30/c265/10.html

Chiyo said you need to have instant reaction to avoid AND knowledge of his attack patterns. Sakura admitted she had neither and you think she was the one dodging?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v30/c266/5.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v30/c266/6.html

Sasori pointed it out here that Chiyo was controlling Sakura in order to avoid the traps (this is at the beginning when he was in Hiruko btw) and Sakura admitted that Sasori figured it out.

Congrats! You proved someone who pales in speed to Sasuke exponentially couldn't dodge attacks from Hiruko. Good luck proving the same about Sasuke. Likewise she wasn't being controlled by Chiyo when making short work of the hundred puppets Sasori summoned, making this feat even less impressive.

Obviously, what I said in that quote went straight over your head. I didn't say Sasuke couldn't cut the strings. I said Sasori can use whatever is around to misdirect the strike.

If you know basics of fighting, you know someone attacking with a knife, punch, etc...you don't have to be physically stronger to misdirect the strike. Pushing something slightly to the side when it's coming straight will misdirect it no matter how strong the straight pushing force.[/quote]


You shouldn't harp about knowing the ins and outs of combat if you're gonna say something so nonsensical right after. If you knew half of the jutsu in Sasuke's repertoire you'd realize the futility in such a strategy. For one, you don't need greater strength to misdirect attacks? Fine, explain exactly how Sasori misdirects a swinging Raiton charged sword. Anything thrown in it's path is bisected, including surrounding debris or chakra strings. Susanoo's arrows are too fast, Sasuke's Susanoo arms are too powerful, and his katon would incinerate anything thrown at them.

He didn't speedblitz Deidara. Deidara said he was fast, but Deidara comfortably dodged him. Tobi was the one who said Sasuke's shunshin was too fast, although he may just have been joking around because Deidara didn't seem to have too big of a problem. I'm talking about this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v39/c357/9.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v39/c357/10.html

You're talking about this:

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v39/c357/14.html
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v39/c357/15.html

That's not a speedblitz. It's just a sneak attack.

No, it's a speedblitz by every definition of the term. He went from looking directly at him, to getting out of his line of sight, getting behind him, then performing an attack SO FAST that he couldn't escape without the aid of an explosion.

You said Sasori didn't speedblitz Sakura/Chiyo. Maybe you don't understand what a long-range fighter is at all. Long-range fighters have no reason to speedblitz BECAUSE THEY ARE LONG-RANGE FIGHTERS. It's not in his fighting style to speedblitz because that goes against his battle plan.

I understand what a long range fighter is. I brought up Sasori's speed incase you still had delusions of him being capable of escaping or overwhelming Sasuke with greater speed, because Sasuke is superior at any range. Staying at range only guarantees the puppets can't hit him thanks to the occasional katon or Chidori Eisou. And at any time that Sasori attempts to press the assault Sasuke can pause and drop an Amaterasu on him.

The time he takes to swipe at a few of the puppets, he isn't going to be able to defend the attacks of the other puppets coming. Yes, even that one second means something because Sasori has traps. They are meant to surprise you.

Sasuke does not have the Byakugan. He cannot see behind him. He cannot read the movements of 100 puppets coming at him at once. They do not even have to stab him. They can just launch needles from his blindspot. Hell, Sasuke can't even do anything from a poisonous Iron Sand barrage.

You're not taking into consideration Susanoo in any of these situations, nor the fact that he can still fire jutsu while protected from these surprise attacks. And I can't figure out why you think these puppets are fast enough to get into Sasuke's blindspot when they couldn't do so to Sakura. That was the whole point of the speed argument. Keeping a weakling and an old woman on their toes (barely, lmao) is not good enough.

I already gave proof that Chiyo was controlling Sakura from the Hiruko portion of the fight. Clearly, you didn't even understand what was happening in this fight. One-shotting puppets left and right?

Out of the 100 puppets summoned. There was no sneak attacks managing to take anyone out, just dozens of puppets being shredded and pounded by ninja with less than half the destructive force or, stamina, or speed of Sasuke. I don't get the appeal. I've never seen a character do so well against fodder and have people rave about it.

It takes about a second for him to look and use Amaterasu on Sasori. When you're being attacked by swarm of poisonous puppets and Iron Sand, that one second is death.

At several times in Sasori's fight he sat perfectly (PERFECTLY) still to read his opponent. Yet Sasuke's gonna be oneshotted in the instant it takes to blink his eye. Nothing biased about that at all, lol.

First off, Sasori can block those fireballs with the Iron Sand. LOL if you think that Iron Sand will be incinerated. Second, Sasori again is a LONG-RANGE fighter. He uses the Kazekage doll from long-range. WTF is Amaterasu going to do when you have a barrage of Iron Sand coming your way? Amaterasu the sand? LOL, fine. GG Sasuke.
<hr noshade size="1">

Only as long as the Kazekage puppet remains on the battlefield. Susanoo tanks while Amaterasu takes out the puppet. Done deal.

[Plyr88]

Long range also limits Sasori's reaction time because it's stacked on top of the already noticeable lag from using kugutsu in the first place. Then, there's the whole "am I too far away to attack his blind spot when he presents it" problem. And I'd like to see a puppet regenerate while being burned to cinders.

I stopped reading this paragraph after the first line. LOL

Congrats! You proved someone who pales in speed to Sasuke exponentially couldn't dodge attacks from Hiruko. Good luck proving the same about Sasuke. Likewise she wasn't being controlled by Chiyo when making short work of the hundred puppets Sasori summoned, making this feat even less impressive.

Short work? She punched down 1 of those 100 puppets. LOL why am I arguing someone who couldn't even understand the fight?

You shouldn't harp about knowing the ins and outs of combat if you're gonna say something so nonsensical right after. If you knew half of the jutsu in Sasuke's repertoire you'd realize the futility in such a strategy. For one, you don't need greater strength to misdirect attacks? Fine, explain exactly how Sasori misdirects a swinging Raiton charged sword. Anything thrown in it's path is bisected, including surrounding debris or chakra strings. Susanoo's arrows are too fast, Sasuke's Susanoo arms are too powerful, and his katon would incinerate anything thrown at them.

Are you able to understand the concepts I talked about? It's not about getting in the way of the blade. It's about pushing it to the side.

If a punch is headed toward the center of your chest, if you are fast enough to nudge the fist/arm from the side, it will not hit the center of your chest but instead go to the side. That's fact and a basic concept of Kung Fu. Replace fist with sword and the nudge being from something Sasori has on his chakra strings.

No, it's a speedblitz by every definition of the term. He went from looking directly at him, to getting out of his line of sight, getting behind him, then performing an attack SO FAST that he couldn't escape without the aid of an explosion.

Seriously, do you even read the manga?

Deidara got distracted by Tobi talking. That's how Sasuke got behind him. It wasn't a speedblitz. He capitalized on Deidara showing disgust for Tobi and then used a sneak attack.

I understand what a long range fighter is. I brought up Sasori's speed incase you still had delusions of him being capable of escaping or overwhelming Sasuke with greater speed, because Sasuke is superior at any range. Staying at range only guarantees the puppets can't hit him thanks to the occasional katon or Chidori Eisou. And at any time that Sasori attempts to press the assault Sasuke can pause and drop an Amaterasu on him.

It would be silly to burn the puppets because now you have flaming puppets coming at you. Nevertheless, I'm not going to argue that Sasuke would have to constantly be defending against a puppet barrage of poisonous weapons including ones from his blindspot.

If all you have to show is Sasuke beat some random nobodies, you can just stop. Comparing random nobodies to the 100 puppets Sasori used to take down a country. Sigh.

You're not taking into consideration Susanoo in any of these situations, nor the fact that he can still fire jutsu while protected from these surprise attacks. And I can't figure out why you think these puppets are fast enough to get into Sasuke's blindspot when they couldn't do so to Sakura. That was the whole point of the speed argument. Keeping a weakling and an old woman on their toes (barely, lmao) is not good enough.

Again, you show you do not read this manga. There were puppets in Sakura's blindspot aka behind her. They surrounded Chiyo and Sakura. Plus if you look back at the fight, Sasori focused on Chiyo more than Sakura.

Out of the 100 puppets summoned. There was no sneak attacks managing to take anyone out, just dozens of puppets being shredded and pounded by ninja with less than half the destructive force or, stamina, or speed of Sasuke. I don't get the appeal. I've never seen a character do so well against fodder and have people rave about it.

Now, I'm convinced you don't read the manga. Dozens of them got shredded? Go back and look at the panels. Sakura and Chiyo couldn't handle the puppet barrage (Chiyo was poisoned in that barrage) so Sakura threw the chakra-sealing device and Sasori countered by entering another body.

At several times in Sasori's fight he sat perfectly (PERFECTLY) still to read his opponent. Yet Sasuke's gonna be oneshotted in the instant it takes to blink his eye. Nothing biased about that at all, lol.

He stood there while his puppets fought. You're assuming the puppets will be idle and it will just be Sasuke standing face-to-face with Sasori.

Wow, you call me biased? The guy who is fighting hard to say Sasuke would win when you fabricate manga facts. LOL!!!!

Only as long as the Kazekage puppet remains on the battlefield. Susanoo tanks while Amaterasu takes out the puppet. Done deal.

Without Yata's Mirror, I fail to see how he's going to deal with the fact that the sand can float and reform at will. It will go instead Susanoo like a cloud and shape into a spire there.

---

Btw, why are people even arguing in these topics. Certain posters have their clear favorites and will never stop arguing about it. Several times, ninjabot has shown he doesn't even know the manga details yet he tries hard to prove his point. Just wait until the poll comes in.

This is more of a popularity contest than anything lol

[Rikudou King]

No.. his body is full of chakra.. Look where the chakra string was coming from to control those 100 puppets.. His heart was the source of his chakra.. So if it was on his puppet's body, it was the one who release the chakra to enable him to use his hand to use his jutsu, body, his eyes to see , his ears to hear, and his legs to walk/run..

Don't tell me it was his heart who control the chakra string to makes him to move and to attack..?

Does sasori's body is made up of wood.?

And even if the sharingan can see the chakra through sasori's body, but it doesn't mean that it was only the hearts of sasori who has a chakra..

No, his body isn't full of chakra. It's just a normal puppet. His core was the thing that was controlling it. None of his puppets have chakra inside them. Sasori was controlling himself the same way as he controlled the other puppets.

Chiyo didn't know Sasori was a human puppet. It doesn't mean he was hiding the fact. She hadn't seen him in years.

She didn't know about the core until the end of the fight? The core was there in plain sight when he took his robe off to summon the 100 puppets. Plus, she knows what it takes to make a human puppet so she knows there would be a a chakra source around.

Orochimaru and Kabuto even joked about how Sasori put his weak spot out in the open. He wasn't hiding anything.

Sasori was hiding the fact. Thus the whole reason he stayed in Hiruko the majority of time. She didn't know Sasori was a human puppet until he revealed that fact and she didn't figure out about the core until he switched to another puppet that the end of the fight. Once she figured that out, she attacked it directly.

Chiyo controlled 10 puppets with 10 fingers. Obviously she doesn't have strings attached to every joint of each puppet so it's ONE PUPPET, ONE STRING yet she's still controlling them. =\

Controlling humans =/= controlling lifeless puppets. You can put chakra into lifeless things. It's more difficult to do that with a living human. Plus, whenever these puppeteers deal with 1 or 2 puppets/humans, THEN they'll attach the strings to their limbs for better control. Nevertheless, we have seen that ONE PUPPET, ONE STRING is possible and they still control the puppet's every movements.

Except there's no sign that she's putting chakra into anything. She wouldn't have to put a string at every joint to control the whole puppet. Controlling humans and puppets are using the same technique, meaning that if it's done with one it would be done with the other.

Thank you for giving his resume. Just having certain techniques doesn't ensure victory. You have to hit the person first.

Sasuke would have effectively died 3 times vs Bee, yet you want to mention that?

1) Bee cut his ass up (Saved by all of Taka)
2) Bee ripped his chest apart (Saved by Juugo)
3) Bijuu blast (Saved by Suigetsu)

Sasuke depended on MS to simply survive Ae's attacks and he still was going to die in the end. Albeit, Ae was probably going to burn up soon after, but Sasuke would still have his skull cracked before Ae succumbed to the flames.

Now if we're done discussing Sasuke's track record. Let's get back to the topic.

And why would Sasuke have trouble hitting Sasori? And Sasuke saved himself against Kirabi's swordsmanship. Kirabi specifically mentioned how Sasuke used his own lightning nature to avoid a fatal hit. Nor would he have died against Ee, since Susanoo would have prevented him from being hit. Regardless, none of that changes the fact that Sasuke has everything he needs to instantly murder Sasori.

I already explained why it wasn't Sakura's speed. Puppeteers FORCE the movements of the puppets. It depends on how fast the puppeteer moves the fingers. Sasori already explained Chiyo was the reason Sakura dodged and moved the way she did. LOL the two biggest Sasuke supporters not even understanding what happened in this fight.

So Sasuke is going to defend against 100 puppets, attack Sasori and then stop Sasori's attempt at redirection all at the same time? LOL why do I even bother.

Some ninjas said he was fast yet he never speedblitz anyone. Sasuke didn't want to kill Deidara but that doesn't mean he didn't want to attack him. He couldn't even land his attack when he was relatively close to a stationary Deidara.

And yet you continue to skip over the later part of the battle, when Sakura was fully able to fight against Sasori's puppets on her own without being controlled by Chiyo. So what's the explanation for that? If Sakura with her skills can avoid being killed by any of Sasori's puppets alone, why would Sasuke have trouble when he has far greater skills, especially when he has Susanoo which would allow him to defend and attack all with little effort.

What about against Team Seven, the Itachi clone, and Madara? All were speedblitzed. And wanting to question Deidara does mean that Sasuke didn't want to attack him. The whole point was to question him.

Chiyo said you need to know Hiruko's attack patterns to be able to avoid it and you're saying you don't. I'll take the manga's word for it.

Sasuke is going to strike from long distance even when Hiruko's exploding arm sends out hundreds of needles?

Yata's Mirror was Susanoo's defense. That's why he obtained it. It doesn't add to Itachi's power (since it's a defense weapon =\). Why would he use it against Sasuke's kunais if the ribs were going to block them anyway? Fo the LULZ?

http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v50/c466/8.html

Mei's mist got in the ribs and started burning Sasuke's skin so there is no magical forcefield all around him =\

You keep saying "Sasori has to summon" as if it takes long to summon. He doesn't even do hand seals. They simply appear when he wants them to.

Chiyo and Sakura were attempting to get close to Hiruko. Sasuke doesn't have to do that. He can attack from afar. And no, Susanoo's defense is not the Yata Mirror. The only reason Susanoo began to fail against Mei's mist was because Sasuke was getting low on chakra and even then it was still protecting him from the majority of the mist. The moment he got more from Zetsu, he was able to completely overcome the mist. Taking the scroll out and releasing the strings would take time, compared to the instant action of shooting Amaterasu.

Yawn, explained many times. Sasuke would be under constant attack. First off Sasuke would never fire off Amaterasu when he's under attack.

Go back and look at all the times Amaterasu was fired off. The opponent was not attacking at the time.

Itachi vs Sasuke - Sasuke was standing back waiting to defend
Sasuke vs Hachibi - Hachibi was standing there rapping
Sasuke vs Ae - Ae was standing there waiting to dodge
Sasuke vs Danzou - Danzou was in mid-air

It's retarded to fire off Amaterasu when you're dodging the barrage of poisonous attacks because more than likely you'll miss and waste chakra. The moment he stops to get a look at Sasori, he'll be hit. He'll be hit anyway since THE MANGA SAYS:

You have to have instant reaction AND know Hiruko's attack patterns.

Manga -1, Sasuke fans - 0

Aside from the point about Hiruko already being answered, what exactly stopping Sasuke from using Amaterasu while he's in Susanoo? That would prevent him from being attack while he fires Amaterasu.

Why wouldn't he be able to switch? The heart is supplying chakra to the body in order for it to move. Just like the chakra strings force the puppets to move, Sasori's heart supplies chakra to move the bodies so there is chakra throughout. By switching, the chakra source simply supplies another empty vessel with chakra.

Because that's not how it works. For chakra to be spread through the puppet, that would mean it's insides are connected and we saw that such a thing was not the case. The puppets are made up of parts.

[Dapreachor]

Ridikou Senin you really miss points, like seriously are you really bringing up the chidori spear against danzou ? someone who was standing still, flat footed and sasuke even said 'Karin don't move' just to get one hit of on danzou.

For the last time Amaretsu is not instant, instant means speed is infinite.
speed = distance / time where time is 0 so if this were the case sasuke can amaretsu anyone at any time, but thats not the case.

Assuming speed speed is even instant - amaretsu doesn't penetrate, its fire. Do you know what fire does? it consumes fuel spreading by things in physical contact with each other. If theres 100 puppets flying around is it really going to touch EVERY single puppet in a globe of 3 dimensional space around a single cone of vision. No, there are plenty of puppets behind and to the sides, just like your own eyesight you have to focus your vision on a point, the human eye can only focus at one point at a time. No moving target has ever been hit by amaretsu except for Danzou in mid air with no way to create a force to propel him in another direction.

Sasori is seen flying around in the anime and manga, understand the principle of tension in the wire reacts opposite to the gravity pulling him down, as long as he has that poison soaked mechanism he can move freely in the X Y Z axis within the radius of length of the wire in his belly.

Furthermore sasuke got totally owned by the karabi 3 times in a row, are you really using that in his defence?

The fact of the matter is that a 5metre spear, and the ability to focus and predict the movement of one target doesn't mean you have a byukagan defence able to negate all incomming attacks. The only way he could do that is susanso and then the fight only boils down to whether poison gas gets him or if its a battle of susano arrows against saosri projectiles and iron sand justsu, and water pressure cannon

The fights Sasuke have won in shippuden
vs Diedera - he used genjutsu
Itachi - he was being manipulated the whole time to gain MS
Dazou - genjutsu again
Kirabi - after being mortally wounded 3 times and defeated - he was plain used as a means to escape.

Sasuke has only ever won battles where he can genjutsu someone into falling for an opening. I hate to break it to you but Sasori has no eyes for him to do that. For all his supposed triumphs without genjutsu who has he honestly defeated?

[Raizen]

Susanoo may... MAY block most of sasori's attacks, but his poison would still be able to get sasuke

---

Furthermore, just having sharingan does not mean that he would be able to spot sasori's heart easily. He needs to focus and know what he is looking for.
Similar to human vision. We see many things, but we miss out on a lot if we don't know what to look for or if we are focused on something else.

Another note: the greatest advantage against a sharingan user is numbers: that is what sasori has

[kakashidad]

Sasuke wins with little trouble. The Sharingan would allow him to see the "real" Sasori and using his ranged techniques can get Sasori before Sasori can poison him or trap him.

you are so predictable .Sasuke itachi or madar will always win with you.And the leaf people win lose lmao...It's all good though.In this case i voted for sasuke...it was a no brainer as they say.I doubt that sasori would or could atempt to hide.But i thing his eyes would locate where the real weakness of sasori,his puppet body and so that canster that house what's left of his heart and soul.A Chidori spear should be
all that's needed to end this.No long thing...treat it as a beat em game
lol.

[Rikudou King]

Ridikou Senin you really miss points, like seriously are you really bringing up the chidori spear against danzou ? someone who was standing still, flat footed and sasuke even said 'Karin don't move' just to get one hit of on danzou.

How is Sasuke creating and piercing in a single moment "missing the point"? You kept harping on Sasuke not stabbing anyone with his Chidori Spear and Danzo is direct proof otherwise.

For the last time Amaretsu is not instant, instant means speed is infinite.
speed = distance / time where time is 0 so if this were the case sasuke can amaretsu anyone at any time, but thats not the case.

Fine, Amaterasu is not actually instant by technical definition. It's still basically undodgable unless you possess excellent reflexes.

Assuming speed speed is even instant - amaretsu doesn't penetrate, its fire. Do you know what fire does? it consumes fuel spreading by things in physical contact with each other. If theres 100 puppets flying around is it really going to touch EVERY single puppet in a globe of 3 dimensional space around a single cone of vision. No, there are plenty of puppets behind and to the sides, just like your own eyesight you have to focus your vision on a point, the human eye can only focus at one point at a time. No moving target has ever been hit by amaretsu except for Danzou in mid air with no way to create a force to propel him in another direction.

If Sasuke shot off Amaterasu, it would cover an huge area. It would be able to it all the puppets and Sasori at the same time. And since there's nothing Sasori can do to cancel the flames, he would be burnt alive along with all his puppets.

Sasori is seen flying around in the anime and manga, understand the principle of tension in the wire reacts opposite to the gravity pulling him down, as long as he has that poison soaked mechanism he can move freely in the X Y Z axis within the radius of length of the wire in his belly.

Sasori was never shown flying in the manga. the closest it came to anything like that was him jumping at Chiyo, which still wasn't actual flying.

Furthermore sasuke got totally owned by the karabi 3 times in a row, are you really using that in his defence?

Kirabi is one of the fastest characters and a prefect Jinchuuriki, and he couldn't land a direct hit on Sasuke. It was only when he could catch Sasuke off guard was he able to land a hit.

The fact of the matter is that a 5metre spear, and the ability to focus and predict the movement of one target doesn't mean you have a byukagan defence able to negate all incomming attacks. The only way he could do that is susanso and then the fight only boils down to whether poison gas gets him or if its a battle of susano arrows against saosri projectiles and iron sand justsu, and water pressure cannon

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that Sasori will start out in Hiruko. It would not be hard for Sasuke to finish him off before he can get out and summon more puppets. And once he activates Susanoo, all it would take is a single arrow to Sasori's core to finish the entire fight.

The fights Sasuke have won in shippuden
vs Diedera - he used genjutsu
Itachi - he was being manipulated the whole time to gain MS
Dazou - genjutsu again
Kirabi - after being mortally wounded 3 times and defeated - he was plain used as a means to escape.

Sasuke has only ever won battles where he can genjutsu someone into falling for an opening. I hate to break it to you but Sasori has no eyes for him to do that. For all his supposed triumphs without genjutsu who has he honestly defeated?

You're completely understating things. Genjutsu had nothing to do with his win against Deidara or Kirabi, who it didn't even work against. Danzo is a whole nother issue, considering Sasuke was able to kill Danzou multiple times. So in no way does Sasuke require genjutsu to win.

Susanoo may... MAY block most of sasori's attacks, but his poison would still be able to get sasuke
<hr noshade size="1">
Furthermore, just having sharingan does not mean that he would be able to spot sasori's heart easily. He needs to focus and know what he is looking for.
Similar to human vision. We see many things, but we miss out on a lot if we don't know what to look for or if we are focused on something else.

Another note: the greatest advantage against a sharingan user is numbers: that is what sasori has

The poison wouldn't get to Sasuke. A weaken Susanoo was still able to protect Sasuke from the majority of Mei's mist. The full version would be able to block everything out. The Sharingan enhances what's the user takes in and sees, thus the whole reason it fixes the flaw in Chidori. There's no reason Sasuke would miss the glowing chuck of chakra that makes up Sasori.

We have pretty much seen the numbers don't matter against Sasuke, considering Sasuke was able to fight a thousand sound ninjas, a huge group of cursed sealed ninjas, and a group of samurai.

you are so predictable .Sasuke itachi or madar will always win with you.And the leaf people win lose lmao...It's all good though.In this case i voted for sasuke...it was a no brainer as they say.I doubt that sasori would or could atempt to hide.But i thing his eyes would locate where the real weakness of sasori,his puppet body and so that canster that house what's left of his heart and soul.A Chidori spear should be
all that's needed to end this.No long thing...treat it as a beat em game
lol.

For the record, I do not think they will always win. Well, perhaps Madara due to Izanagi. But Deidara, Ee, Kirabi, Onoki, and Hashirama most of the time and some others depending on the situation have the means to be a real challenge to them.

[bhasty]

If Sasuke shot off Amaterasu, it would cover an huge area. It would be able to it all the puppets and Sasori at the same time. And since there's nothing Sasori can do to cancel the flames, he would be burnt alive along with all his puppets...

No. it'll depend if sasori's puppets are close to each other.. But the thing is, sasori isn't an idiot either.. And even if sasori's puppets was burn by amaterasu, then just like someone said that sasori can still used it and throw his puppet's with amaterasu on sasuke..

You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that Sasori will start out in Hiruko. It would not be hard for Sasuke to finish him off before he can get out and summon more puppets. And once he activates Susanoo, all it would take is a single arrow to Sasori's core to finish the entire fight...

I think you're the one who seem to be completely ignoring the fact that sasori inside of hiruko is much more deadlier.. and i think it was sasori who can finish sasuke off before he can use his MS..

You're completely understating things. Genjutsu had nothing to do with his win against Deidara or Kirabi, who it didn't even work against. Danzo is a whole nother issue, considering Sasuke was able to kill Danzou multiple times. So in no way does Sasuke require genjutsu to win...

Maybe your forgetting something that danzo was able to kill sasuke twice.. and did sasuke was able to kill danzo multiple times.?

[Rikudou King]

No. it'll depend if sasori's puppets are close to each other.. But the thing is, sasori isn't an idiot either.. And even if sasori's puppets was burn by amaterasu, then just like someone said that sasori can still used it and throw his puppet's with amaterasu on sasuke..

They wouldn't have to be that close. We seen that Sasuke can fire a shot of Amaterasu that is nearly as wide as the Hachibi. And since Amaterasu will be burning everything, Sasori won't be able to throw the puppets because the chakra strings themselves will have burnt up.

I think you're the one who seem to be completely ignoring the fact that sasori inside of hiruko is much more deadlier.. and i think it was sasori who can finish sasuke off before he can use his MS..

How is he "much deadlier" and how would he get Sasuke before he can attack when it wouldn't take Sasuke a second to activate MS and fire off Amaterasu?

Maybe your forgetting something that danzo was able to kill sasuke twice.. and did sasuke was able to kill danzo multiple times.?

Um, Danzo never killed Sasuke. I presume you mean that Danzo can close to it, which is a different issue. And Sasuke killed Danzo about 11 times, in order to force him to use up Izanagi.

[ninjabot]

I stopped reading this paragraph after the first line. LOL

Why? Dodging a question you can't prove wrong is the same as trying to answer and being proven wrong. Either way you're put in your place.

Short work? She punched down 1 of those 100 puppets. LOL why am I arguing someone who couldn't even understand the fight?

You can't be serious that for 8 pages the two of them were surrounded by a hundred puppets and they just decided to leave Sakura alone. The only reason she wasn't dead is because she was contending with the puppets that were approaching. All of her own speed and reaction time mind you, especially when they all converged at once and a simple hop defended her from their attack.

Are you able to understand the concepts I talked about? It's not about getting in the way of the blade. It's about pushing it to the side.

That's what I said: you CAN NOT push aside an attack that is too large or too powerful. Or too fast for that matter. You're trying to use concepts you can't comprehend to defend your logic, without even seriously stopping to realize what Sasori is dealing with. I mean, stop and listen to yourself: You just said that Sasori's going to nudge a raiton charged sword aside. With what? What's gonna touch a Chidorigatana and NOT get shredded as it touches it? The same goes with Susanoo fists, arrows, and Gouryuuka. There's no misdirecting, that's a horrible excuse to not accept the difference in both their power.

This is why no one here's arguing in Sasori's favor except for you. It's embarrassing.

Deidara got distracted by Tobi talking. That's how Sasuke got behind him. It wasn't a speedblitz. He capitalized on Deidara showing disgust for Tobi and then used a sneak attack.

Makes no difference whatsoever. He was still in Deidara's line of sight, left it, and overwhelmed him with speed AFTER he was well aware of the speed he was contending with. Speedblitz. You're not getting any points across with semantics.

It would be silly to burn the puppets because now you have flaming puppets coming at you. Nevertheless, I'm not going to argue that Sasuke would have to constantly be defending against a puppet barrage of poisonous weapons including ones from his blindspot.

Sasuke's Gouryuuka can punch through concrete ceilings, yet I'm supposed to believe these puppets can retain their form after being hit with one? See? If I have to break down everything you're mistakenly thinking you refuted so that you can actually understand what's happening then I agree, this is certainly a waste of time.


If all you have to show is Sasuke beat some random nobodies, you can just stop. Comparing random nobodies to the 100 puppets Sasori used to take down a country. Sigh.


All you have to show is Sasori FAILING to beat some random nobodies. We however have feats that represent Sasuke reaction time (reacting to Raikage and Killerbee's assaults, two ninja EXPONENTIALLY faster than those puppets), a plethore of super destructing jutsu, a mass of ranged options, and a perfect defense. You however, have fandom.

Not alot to go on, and even less for us to take you seriously about.


[quote=Plyr88]Again, you show you do not read this manga. There were puppets in Sakura's blindspot aka behind her. They surrounded Chiyo and Sakura. Plus if you look back at the fight, Sasori focused on Chiyo more than Sakura.

And not a single one managed to hit her. matter of factly:http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v31/c273/10.html THIS is what happens when Sasori's puppets reach someone's blind spot. Now, multiply Sakura's movement speed to atleast double and ask yourself, seriously this time: what chance at all does Sasori have at taking advantage of Sasuke's blindspots when he can't even hit Sakura?

Dozens of them got shredded? Go back and look at the panels. Sakura and Chiyo couldn't handle the puppet barrage (Chiyo was poisoned in that barrage) so Sakura threw the chakra-sealing device and Sasori countered by entering another body.

Chiyo cut down multiple. Sakura was offpanel defending for 8 pages straight. Puppets were being taken down, you can't deny that. I expect you to try though.

He stood there while his puppets fought. You're assuming the puppets will be idle and it will just be Sasuke standing face-to-face with Sasori.

No I'm not. I'm assuming Sasori will be idle while his puppets are attempting to hit Sasuke. And Sasuke will be shredding them like paper dolls until he decides to drop an Amaterasu on Sasori.


Wow, you call me biased? The guy who is fighting hard to say Sasuke would win when you fabricate manga facts. LOL!!!!


I wouldn't have if your replies weren't so obnoxious. And I didn't fabricate anything. Sasuke DID speedblitz Deidara. Sakura DID dodge multiple puppets on her own. She DID destroy puppets on her own. And Kugutsu no Jutsu DOES have a natural lag time. Everything I said is considered fabricated by you because you want Sasuke to win. Badly. It's sad, really.

Without Yata's Mirror, I fail to see how he's going to deal with the fact that the sand can float and reform at will. It will go instead Susanoo like a cloud and shape into a spire there.

While the sand begins forming from inside of Sasori's Kazekage puppet, Sasuke is perfectly capable of pressing the attack before any jutsu manifest. Sakura and Chiyo just watched as the iron sand seeped from it's mouth. Another perfect chance to just drop an Amaterasu since it takes far longer than it takes to just blink his eye for that sand to be used.

Btw, why are people even arguing in these topics. Certain posters have their clear favorites and will never stop arguing about it. Several times, ninjabot has shown he doesn't even know the manga details yet he tries hard to prove his point. Just wait until the poll comes in.

This is more of a popularity contest than anything lol

Because not everyone votes right from the beginning. Some posters wait to see who can come up with a better argument if they can't decide for themselves, and it originated from the arena's basic fights that don't rely on polls, so those of us who are used to coming here and posting to debate and refute others get something new to keep us busy.

But, every once in a while, someone comes along unwilling to listen to reason, and an example is made. That's where you come in.

[bhasty]

They wouldn't have to be that close. We seen that Sasuke can fire a shot of Amaterasu that is nearly as wide as the Hachibi. And since Amaterasu will be burning everything, Sasori won't be able to throw the puppets because the chakra strings themselves will have burnt up..

Nah.. 'twas depend on the size of the target.. Hachibi is a giant so the amaterasu spread rapidly.. And look the amaterasu that sasuke use on raikage that goes directly to the samurai.. 'Twas almost the same as the size of the samurai..

How is he "much deadlier" and how would he get Sasuke before he can attack when it wouldn't take Sasuke a second to activate MS and fire off Amaterasu?.

Does sasuke knows sasori use a poison.? What i mean about "much deadlier" is that hiruko has so much needles poison.. His "hand and head weapon" alone can poison sasuke..

And what the used of hiruko's tail.? a puppet accesories.?

Um, Danzo never killed Sasuke. I presume you mean that Danzo can close to it, which is a different issue. And Sasuke killed Danzo about 11 times, in order to force him to use up Izanagi.

When both of them stabbed together, sasuke will be dead without karin.. And if wasn't for madara, sasuke will be dead with danzo's suicidal seal..

The thing is, danzo can avoid those attack.. but he was so sure of his izanagi.. and avoiding sasuke's attack is useless because of his izanagi..

So going by your logic, kimimaro, gaara, haku killed naruto a hundred/thousand times because they killed his taju kage bunshin.?

[Dapreachor]

really its like the same argument with you people whatever anyone else says.

For the last time. When danzou was hit by chidori spear -

He He Hitting
was Was Stationairy
standing Not Objects
still moving ! is, EASY



The only reason sasuke survived was because he used genjutsu against danzou so he stabbed him with the sword when danzou thought izanagi was on - genjutsu. Otherwise he would have been pierced by a wind sword -- wind is supposed to be > lightning. but whatever... sasuke hacks.

Deidera was hit of guard because sasuke genjutsu'd him into believing he already died.

I really can't argue with you if you don't want to see the turning points of the fights. Or simple things like when has sasuke ever fired of amaretsu while dodging an attack, never.

Sasuke's style is lightning attacks / taijutsu / sword - to assess
MS -
Genjutsu
Win.

Karabi kicked his ass because he couldn't genjutsu him then after being saved 3 times from death he was USED to escape the Raikage. He clearly lost that fight, despite the back up from his 3 goons.

[ninjabot]

^You do know that Sasuke's used the Chidori Eisou against more than just Danzou, right? And not against immobile opponents. When he cut down the tails from Killerbee's bijuu form he swung at it before it could crush Karin.

I hope you're not implying that Sasuke can't hit a moving target with it.

[xXan]

Sasuke can use this move to cut him down in half from a distance. The blasted thing was able to cut a biju tentacle in half with no dificulty. I also find it weird that people belive he can't hit a moving target lol. Even the stationary one Sasuke was able to hit Danzo in the hearth and avoid any major organs from Karin. The sharingan would tell Sasuke where his target is going to be before it get's there so this is actualy very easy to do(if its not someone with insane speed Raikage/Bee/etc).

Then again i don't even understand why we are debating Chidori Eisou when Sasuke would mop the floor with Sasori with Susano/amaterasu combo alone.

The fight would start with Sasori in his main body and Sasuke going Susano, he uses his sharingan to detect where the core is and launch 1 arrow at that big slow puppets and probably 1 shoting him... He is not even going to have multiple puppets running around to jump to a diferent one ...