Madara and the Juubi bootleg

[Thekid90]

Mods please let me know if I'm discussin this too early or in the wrong section, or if I need spoiler tags.

In 537 we hear Raikage mention how Madara has about a tentacle worth of Hachibi chakra. Then Shika concludes Madara wants the Rikudou treasures and sent the Gold and Silver brothers to the frontline to harness their kyuubi chakra.

Madara responds with "Your a worthy enemy" confirming Shika's suspicions.

So...did Madara know Kabuto had access to these brothers? Did he ask Kabuto to send them out or knew he would? If he asked Kabuto, couldn't he have done it before the war? He probably needed them to go to war to be sucked into the pot...HOW DID HE KNOW THE ALLIANCE WOULD USE IT ON THEM?!?!

Or perhaps he made this plan on the spur of the moment. If he did, isn't that risky? He's making a bootleg Jyuubi, it doesn't have all the tailed beast's chakra. Granted he was gonna have a little off due to Minato sealing some of kyuubi's chakra before, but this is way less of kyuubbis chakra and even less of hachibi's.

It could be a bluff but he did do that villain crazy talk to himself about how his plan is about to commense.

I don't like how fast this is going either, middle of the war and Madara wants to start his moon operation.

[THM Nindo]

Maybe Madara need both the Kin/Gin and Naruto...

Remember that Naruto only have half of the Kyubbi.
So, technically, Madara would be missing half of it even if he manage to extract it from Naruto.

Maybe, he's just trying to compensate that missing half by extracting whatever Kyuubi chakra the two KinGin brother have.

[Thekid90]

That makes sense. I was under the impression that he was already about to start the ritual for the jyuubi already, but you maybe right.

He probably went for the brothers BEFORE he takes on Bee and Naruto, so he doesn't have to get them THEN kin/gin.

[Muka]

I he wanted to do that, he wouldn't have talked about a "substitute".
He seems in a hurry.
He wants something that can replace the Kyuubi.

[THM Nindo]

I he wanted to do that, he wouldn't have talked about a "substitute".
He seems in a hurry.
He wants something that can replace the Kyuubi.

Well, it's a "substitute" for the other half that is stuck inside the Reaper's belly.

I'm not saying this is what he meant, but it's a possibility.
And I like this idea better than the idea that he won't need Killerbee and Naruto anymore.

That would be very very sad IMO, and the manga will again lose a lot of potential...
Naruto being the last hope (because he's the last Jinchuriki) would have been so great, that the idea that Madara doesn't need him is just really really bad IMO.

[Suzaku]

I think he just changed his plans after the brothers appeared on the battlefield, and now he's trying to take advantage of this development while he has the chance. Otherwise he'd have just waited for the capture of Naruto and Bee.

It's also possible that Kabuto intentionally sent out Kinkaku and Ginkaku in hopes that Madara would tip his hand and make a mistake.

It seems like Madara is going to try and complete the chakra extraction ritual during the night so that he can put his plan into action on the next day. At least, that's how I see it.

[DementedKirby]

I see that more than likely Kabuto's smarter than Madara (at least I'd hope so), because if he's to be the next villain, he's gotta surpass Madara, right?

I think that Madara simply played into Kabuto's hand. Again, I still say that if Kabuto wants to throw a wrench in Madara's plans, he can simply unsummon the kyuubi brothers. I'd so lol.

---

Come to think of it, I think this was Madara's plan B all along. If you look at this page, he told Sasuke that he didn't need for him to go after Killer Bee anymore. I think that Madara took advantage of having Kinkaku and Ginkaku sealed in order to speed up his plan. Kabuto merely didn't think he'd be so desperate to do so. Madara's substitute were the brothers. I don't think he was just waiting for Naruto and Killer Bee to show up in order to go get the sealing pot. He was probably waiting for the alliance to defeat his army and go in while they were distracted with the celebration. Madara didn't attack anyone because he usually doesn't. Hm, who knew. 80-odd chapters ago. Oh, and after looking at Madara's comment on that last link, look at the last panel on this page. His desperation is more than evident. So he was more than likely sufficed with hachibii's tentacle. No, just the kyuubii remains.
Also, thinking back, if Minato sealed half of the kyuubii's chakra, it's kinda obvious that Madara didn't need all of their chakra to resurrect the juubi.

[Falstaf007]

The substitue for the Jubiee is actually quite obvious isn't it? Madara has stated he 'needed' Kabuto for the battle to come some chapters ago. It can't be that he needed leutenants to lead the army. Surely they made a difference but not a tide turning one. In fact, maybe just a stalemate with both sides having about 50% casualties. Madara had the statue equalizer though, which without Kabuto's undead army would have equalized/won the battle by itself.

The thread starter made some good points and clues about gin/kin being retrieved. I surmise that the coffin Madara is afraid of is the Fourth. He sealed half kyuubi's chakra is the death god's stomache right? Where he IS? And how did gin/kin get Kyuubi's chakra? By being consumed by it and residing in it's stomache for so long.

The coffin that Madara is afraid of is also his 'substitute' for Naruto.

Of course, the predicted climax of Naruto beating this amalgam of tailed beasts should end with a fight with his father, as by then Kabuto will have less 'leutenants' to focus on and the fourth will become Kabuto's last card.

Thats my take anyway.

Enjoy the future spoilers

[DementedKirby]

It's been known a million times that you can't Edo Tensei any of the previous Hokage.

[Thekid90]

@Muka - For some odd reason when Madara mentioned substitute I thought he meant as in someone to look after HQ, I wonder why I thought it in that context.

@THM - I can see and I agree in hoping that the bros 9b chakra will be added with naruto's 9b or at least that's Madara's intention, because it would be sad that after all this Madara didn't need the last 2 Jins...

But now that I really think of it from an author's pov. Madara's ultimate plan requires the beasts from 2 main characters, which SHOULD result in their death. What better way to put Madara at his peak and still have Naruto alive without creating some lame or lameR plot device.

@Suzaku - that's kinda how I saw it but I still feel like they're holes in Tobi's thought process.

@Kirby - I agree, except I think Madara still cared about 8b then, even if he was desperate since I feel Madara forced Sasuke against 8b not to capture him but to exercise Sasuke's Mangekyou, he was gonna put him through a series of fights someway or another.

@falstaf - I can't lie, it would be pretty epic to see Minato fight Naruto. I just don't want Kishi to copy the ending of Dragonball Z. I can see it now, Minato's spirit feeding Naruto's rasengan chakra so that he can finish off Madara. /facepalm

[Hyuuga_Mugen]

Some interesting thoughts floating around.

I agree with THM Nindo's contributions mostly. After all the meanings in tobi's wording of things isn't always so clear to read into early on, a substitue could well mean for the half residing within Minato.

It's been known a million times that you can't Edo Tensei any of the previous Hokage.

I was in that school of thought until very recently myself, but the mechanics of Minato's sealing techniques actually seem to leave room for there to be a soul out there for edo tensei rebirth. I mean he implanted Kushina's chakra as well as his own into the Hakke Fuin seal, allowing both to materialize within Naruto over a decade and a half after Minato himself was sealed within the shinigami.

With Kabuto having many chances close range to draw a sample of Minato's blood from Naruto's seal in Part I, the way things are going I can't see Kishi passing up the opportunity to exploit this loophole. IMO that means a fully intact Juubi is still possible.

Even if that is asking too much I think we are all rushing to assume that Tobi is taking any kind of risk in his actions, why couldn't the moon itself be harbouring half of the Jyuubi's entire chakra? that would make these fractions of Kyuubi and Hachibi much less of a concern.... Just trying to keep an open mind.

[Bleda]

While normal edo-tensei cannot summon any soul that is not in the Pure World, as Kabuto put it. Kabuto also said that he mastered the technique, beyond orochimaru. Granted, most people thinks (and Chiyo in the manga) that Kabuto said this because of the sheer amount of summons he has, and his ability to overwrite his own talismans. I think that it is partly because he can also summon souls that are not in Pure World, like all previous Hokage's (and half of Kyuubi) from Death God's belly.

[Hyuuga_Mugen]

OK, well honestly as shrewd as Kabuto is I doubt he would lie in such a blatant way. I'm not so sure he has found a way to resurrect souls from the impure world (unless he made a contract with the shinigami, which would shock everyone but IMO spoil the story). I'd rather believe he found a way to harness the soul Minato implanted within Naruto, the same soul that repaired the seal mid-pain fight.

If it was a case of being able to revive those beyond revival then Kabuto would just revive Rikudou and end everyone.

[DementedKirby]

Minato won't be resurrected. He doesn't have to. Naruto has already surpassed him and Minato himself has placed his trust in Naruto (as did Jiraiya). As for getting Minato's half of the kyuubi, that is also unnecessary. Naruto won't have the kyuubi extracted. I think that it will severely harm the plot. I don't see Naruto becoming the juubi jinchuuriki, either. However, what will happen to the sealed bijuu when Madara's defeated? Therein lies another question.

[jaymizzo]

Maybe someone has already said this, but i dont think Madara knows that Naruto only has Half of the kyuubi in him