Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (9/8/14 - 9/14/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Bleach 595 (2)

View Poll Results: Who wins?

Voters
25. You may not vote on this poll
  • Gin and Urahara with ease

    6 24.00%
  • Gin and Urahara with difficulty

    10 40.00%
  • Shunsui and Ukitake with ease

    2 8.00%
  • Shunsui and Ukitake with difficulty

    5 20.00%
  • Draw

    2 8.00%
New Reply
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 39

Thread: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Austin
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    I think he viewed Hiyori as collateral damage, seriously, its hard to take someone lopping someone in two as not trying to kill them.
    I guess you're right - he seemed prepared to kill Rukia and Momo in the SS arc as well.

  2. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #17
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,704
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    So he failed, like I said? Urahara has a kido based zanpakuto, cero are basically the same type of attack. YOU admit that Ukitake should do well against Urahara, but then say Urahara has more than benihime? KIDO? The same type of attack that Ukitake should do well against? LOL- there's nothing that Urahara and Gin have that magically gives them the win. Urahara took on careless Aizen with 2 others and got one hit KO'ed after a slash. Ukitake took a hand through the back out the gut. Shunsui took 4 shots from CERO Espada and Aizen. And Ukitake has shown no speed feats? OK- then what was the shunpo away from Yama? Or how he embarrassed Byakuya on the bridge, grabbing his hand out of nowhere? Or how he stopped Starrk's cero metralleta? Speed my friend.

  4. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  5. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Country
    Riverrun
    Posts
    2,156
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Urahara's kido would work on Ukitake. Take Sajyou Sabaku for instance, Ukitake wouldn't be able to absorb it if he got hit by it, because the bakudo would stop him from moving. The same principle applies Urahara's other bakudo.
    Last edited by En Yang Ji; May 10, 2011 at 04:43 PM.

  6. #19
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,704
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    So now Juushiro is immobile as well? He can't dodge kido that Urahara has shown to have to chant? That's your reasoning? I guess you forget that Juushiro knows kido as well? Why give credit to only one side? These arguments aren't even fun with that being the case.

  7. #20
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    I don't see either shunsui or ukitake dodging Gin's bankai if Gin's serious. If Gin is as 'genius' as hitsu then he already had those 100 years shunsui said hitsu needs to surpass him. Aizen also respected Gin enough to think he had the capabilities to kill him.
    Last edited by HaouLelouch; May 11, 2011 at 03:43 PM.

  8. #21
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cloudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    I'm going to say that's pretty pathetic. Ichigo had no trouble adjusting to the speed, why would 2 of the best captains? Gin is outclassed here. Urahara has little to get through past soguyo no kotowari, Shunsui's games make you follow the rules so Gin is SOL until he figures how to play. Shunsui and Juushiro win this one.

  9. #22
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Austin
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    I'm going to say that's pretty pathetic. Ichigo had no trouble adjusting to the speed, why would 2 of the best captains? Gin is outclassed here. Urahara has little to get through past soguyo no kotowari, Shunsui's games make you follow the rules so Gin is SOL until he figures how to play. Shunsui and Juushiro win this one.
    1) Gin wasn't trying to kill Ichigo.
    2) Gin's initial attack was a sideways slash which is far easier to block/avoid than just extending the blade towards him from the get go. This allowed Ichigo to understand his Bankai prior to being attacked by the blade extension itself.
    3) Gin did hit Ichigo - if he wanted, he could have used his poison to destroy his arm.
    4) Whatever we say about Ichigo, his Bankai is the only Bankai around which drastically increases the speed of the user.
    5) You say "two best Captains". I say you have no proof that Shunsui or Ukitake are superior to Gin or Urahara in base.
    Last edited by ShootToKill; May 12, 2011 at 02:45 PM.

  10. Thanks 3 Member(s) thanked this post
  11. #23
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cloudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Gin also LIED about the speed of his bankai. Ichigo STILL hit him with a GT even with his weak resolve.
    I said 2 OF the best captains. YOU have no proof otherwise .
    Whatever you say about Ichigo in bankai's speed its still not being displayed to be equal to Shunsui- He couldn't even follow Starrk, yet Shunsui kept up with him without problem.
    Gin CAN'T HIT someone in Irooni without calling a color. So how is he going to win? he'll get one shot by Shunsui calling WHITE- which is the ONLY color 'late Gin' wore.

  12. #24
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Austin
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    Gin CAN'T HIT someone in Irooni without calling a color. So how is he going to win? he'll get one shot by Shunsui calling WHITE- which is the ONLY color 'late Gin' wore.
    As a matter of fact, you're completely wrong. Once a color is called, both combatants are able to attack one another - if this wasn't the case, then why would Shunsui say this? I mean, the game is based on two premises. One is that the color called is the only color which can be hit in order for any damage to be caused. The second is that the more of a particular color is covering a character's body, the greater danger his opponent is in. This would make no sense whatsoever if the only person capable of attacking was the person who called the color, it would completely contradict what Shunsui says in the link, since the attacker would be in no danger.

    So quite to the contrary, Gin CAN hit Shunsui without calling a color himself, as long as Shunsui calls a color, and if Shunsui calls white after having removed his Kimono, he will have a good deal of white on his own body, and since Gin's clothing is completely white, a hit from Gin on a "white" part of Shunsui is guaranteed to one shot him.

  13. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  14. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Yoruichi
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    As a matter of fact, you're completely wrong. Once a color is called, both combatants are able to attack one another - if this wasn't the case, then why would Shunsui say this? I mean, the game is based on two premises. One is that the color called is the only color which can be hit in order for any damage to be caused. The second is that the more of a particular color is covering a character's body, the greater danger his opponent is in. This would make no sense whatsoever if the only person capable of attacking was the person who called the color, it would completely contradict what Shunsui says in the link, since the attacker would be in no danger.

    So quite to the contrary, Gin CAN hit Shunsui without calling a color himself, as long as Shunsui calls a color, and if Shunsui calls white after having removed his Kimono, he will have a good deal of white on his own body, and since Gin's clothing is completely white, a hit from Gin on a "white" part of Shunsui is guaranteed to one shot him.
    Exactly.

    The other misconception that some people seem to have is of Shunsui having the ability to hide in any shadow he wants. But based on the rule of Kageoni and based on what we've seen, Shunsui can only get inside the shadow of his opponent.

    The the rule for Kage Oni is the following: the one whose shadow gets stepped on loses http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch374-06.png ...which highly implies that Shunsui can only get inside his opponent's shadow. We do know that Shunsui actually came out of Stark's shadow in FKT.

    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...87-page-4.html
    http://manga.bleachexile.com/bleach-...87-page-5.html

    Further, when Shunsui came out of the shadow that was in Hitsugaya's ice pillar right before stabbing Aizen in FKT...shunsui didn't actually come out of the ice's shadow; he actually came directly out of Aizen's shadow, which was cast on the ice without Aizen noticing apparently.

    http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch391-16.png
    http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch391-17.png
    http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/19694

    Also, since Shunsui's opponent has to step on or be touching his own shadow, Kageoni is pretty much useless if Shunsui and his opponent are fighting in the air. Not to mention that there's also the possibility of Shunsui's zanpakutou not being in the mood for certain games while in combat--which can be rather troublesome for Shunsui...
    Last edited by Jackk; May 13, 2011 at 09:23 PM.


  15. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  16. #26
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    Gin also LIED about the speed of his bankai. Ichigo STILL hit him with a GT even with his weak resolve.
    I said 2 OF the best captains. YOU have no proof otherwise .
    Whatever you say about Ichigo in bankai's speed its still not being displayed to be equal to Shunsui- He couldn't even follow Starrk, yet Shunsui kept up with him without problem.
    Gin CAN'T HIT someone in Irooni without calling a color. So how is he going to win? he'll get one shot by Shunsui calling WHITE- which is the ONLY color 'late Gin' wore.
    I am gettin sick and tired of people adjusting Ichigo's resolve and power level to whatever level they desire to fit in with their arguments. Ichigo at that point was clearly NOT having resolve issues since his dad beat some sense out of him just before. He started having doubts again when Aizen entered chrysalis stage with his transcendental reiatsu.

    I don't see anyone dodging Gin's bankai if Gin is serious enough(ie use maximum extension speed, not to point the blade at their opponent and saying buto before firing it or extend it fully then using a slash attack with it. In the case when gin used buto ichigo could react to the extension(with warning) but not the contraction which suggest Gin wasn't extending kamishini no yari as fast as he could). If Aizen's reiatsu could not nullify Gin's poison I don't see irooni doing it either. Gin and Urahara can win this with absurd ease if Urahara acts as distraction (something he'd be quite good at), while Gin snipes.
    Last edited by HaouLelouch; May 14, 2011 at 05:02 PM.

  17. #27
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cloudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Deal with it, he was ready to give up, he even said this to his dad.

    And as for you jackk, you're talking about something that's wrong just as shoottokill. Where does Gin get the rules from? You didn't even lay that out, just assumed he'd know right? Tell me the color Gin wears, then tell me who initiates irooni. Simple facts are simple keys to a victory by Shunsui. Gin wears white making for quite an easy target, especially seeing as how Shunsui was wearing white himself. So he calls irooni, throws his Pink kimono, calls white, which he has an abundance of giving him plenty of power, then cuts Gin. You're trying to tell me that Gin will automatically know right then and there to cut white? If that's the case Gin is the smartest character in terms of fighting prowess there is. But, that's NOT the case, sadly. There was nothing stated that Gin is any more analytical than any normal captain. And considering Starrk was more so than most other characters, yet still couldn't figure out what the game entailed until AFTER the first hit, I'd say Gin stands little chance. Kageoni is useless in the air, but what about takaoni? And what about bushogoma? Useless? I'd say no.
    Last edited by cloudo; May 17, 2011 at 04:27 PM.

  18. #28
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jackk's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Yoruichi
    Country
    United States
    Age
    25
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    791
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    And as for you jackk, you're talking about something that's wrong just as shoottokill.
    I'm talking about something that's wrong? How? Did you even read my post? ...

    And ShootToKill wasn't wrong either.

    You said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    Gin CAN'T HIT someone in Irooni without calling a color. So how is he going to win? he'll get one shot by Shunsui calling WHITE- which is the ONLY color 'late Gin' wore.
    Which isn't exactly true. Yeah, that's right. ShootToKill already explained why.

    And I'll show even better translations of chapter 374, just to make this even clearer.

    Cnet's translation-

    Shunsui: "...Dear me. // Well done. // In "Irooni", it's entirely possible for the opponent to strike back at you, as long as it's on the colour you chose. / And what's more... // The greater the risk you take upon yourself, the greater the damage your successful strikes deal to the opponent. //" http://mangahelpers.com/t/cnet128/releases/16217

    And Ju-Ni's scanlation-

    Shunsui: "With Iro oni, if your opponent cuts you on the color you call out, you'll take damage. Also the higher the risk the color is to you, the greater the injuries you'll inflict." http://ju-ni.net/gallery/index.php?d...h-ch374-14.png

    Sorry, but you're the one who was wrong Cloudo.


  19. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  20. #29
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member El Samurai Guapo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    San Diego
    Country
    United States
    Age
    26
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    I like how Jackk always does his homework and pulls up the translated lines and/or scans right away. If it was me the argument would go back and forth for like a page before I would be bothered enough to look shit up.

    In any case, iro oni, as I've said a million times, is a double-edged sword regardless of whether or not you know the rules. Gin being ignorant of the rules here does not mean he's going to refrain from parrying attacks or striking back. When Shunsui calls a color, if he doesn't land the hit first he's screwed. He tries to compensate for this drawback of his zanpakutou by using distractions like the haori to ensure he'll land the hit. In a straight sword fight though I think Gin is in a better position to nick Shunsui than vice versa. Basically it comes down to two swords vs. one that can change to virtually any length and extend/retract virtually instantaneously. I'd give the edge to the latter.
    Last edited by blai; May 19, 2011 at 06:02 AM.

  21. Thanks 3 Member(s) thanked this post
  22. #30
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cloudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Gin and Urahara vs Shunsui and Ukitake

    Not owned. LIKE I SAID- Gin doesn't know the rules. PULLED A PALIN- again. Where does Gin get the rules? Shunsui doesn't HAVE to tell him. You're still avoiding the question. How is Gin going to know what Irooni does? Let alone how to play it? I LOVE how the two of you failed to answer ONE question. Owned? lol@the internet warrior mentality. That's pretty rude, don't ya think? It's just a manga, budd. You're diving so deep into the rules without even sharing how he'll even know them! I call that a failure.
    Last edited by cloudo; May 18, 2011 at 04:27 PM.

New Reply
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts