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Thread: Berserk 321 Discussion

  1. #16
    Scanlator 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member M-Hario's Avatar
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    Re: Berserk 321 Discussion

    Scan is out, enjoy it.

    Sorry for the lateness, I've been a bit busy with college stuff.

    As always, thanks to mote for his great translation.

    http://mangatopia.net/manga/berserk-en/chapter/321
    Recruiting Translators for seinen manga!

    Utopia v3.0 scantrad

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  3. #17
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity llamapie's Avatar
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    Re: Berserk 321 Discussion

    So Isidro is finally getting his rematch against this pirate d bag. It should show us really how far he has come as well as serve as amusement for the next chapter. So what Guts is doing has to end with some sort of boss fight. I can't see him just tearing his way through this monster until its dead without some sort of challenge.. You know the challenge that doesn't involve killing fodder but something that can take him 1 on 1.
    Last edited by llamapie; May 30, 2011 at 08:09 PM.
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    # of "Miura will die before Berserk is finished" comments(since Nov. 1st 2008): 100

  4. #18
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    Re: Berserk 321 Discussion

    Ok, please read these chapters before:

    http://arcticnightfall.com/boards/in...p?topic=4369.0 (for "lost" chpater 83, "The God in the Abyss (2)")
    http://somemanga.com/manga/Berserk/201/
    http://somemanga.com/alt/Berserk/233/om/
    http://somemanga.com/alt/Berserk/292/om/
    http://somemanga.com/manga/Berserk/304/

    The big question is: What do you think that we'll see when Guts cuts the heart of the Sea God?

    Add it to the mysteries of the history:

    -About the tool that kills gods-


    The emperor's body was inside all "astral" as we saw in the cut while here (Sea God) we are seeing a "normal" living body. Also remembering Guts fighting apostles we saw blood and body parts... Mmm... Is the sword then? Whith the sword of the Skull Knight (an astral sword?) we can lower one level more and mix the idea world with other two? Or are the three ones already mixed? So, how near to "astral" is the sword of Guts? Actually, the sword of Skeleton Knight didn't work because is made of behelits, and behelits are the tools of the Idea of Evil (see espiode 83, the "lost" one) for its power in the world, so it's like to rewrite history using god's pencil while god didn't left it alone. So if Guts by killing the Sea God makes a totally free astral sword... It can kill... Anything in the astral world? Open astral bodies and use them as a door to something unknown?

    -About the hero that kills gods-

    The emperor god was formed using a "fake" behelit but made of "true" apostles (then, controlled by Idea of Evil). This is what allowed Idea of Evil show the profecy to the people of Midland? So, idea of Evil knows the past, the present and the future of what it controls? What is the position of the sacrifice mark in all this? We saw earlier that they are "owned" by the dark (Idea of Evil), but what if they are only "prosecuted by"? All the time we see that the fact that Guts and Caska are still living is a miracle. But Sonia saw the collaboration of Guts and Zodd, so if Sonia is connected to Idea of Evil (most probably, even probably she is the TRUE FORM of Idea of Evil! Just check her "godly" attitude!) then Guts is "owned" by the dark? looks like Shierke is a "free" person (Sonia tempts her) and now guts is going to make the tool. Will be she the one that kills all? Or having the brand is not a truly limitation but a prerequisite? Caska? The possessed child forces Griffith body to be killed in a "harakiri-like" scene? Finally, if Idea of Evil controls Guts destiny, why it allows the astral-sword to be created? Or Shierke freedom will change at last moment what was expected to happen? Or another external force (Guts's son, mermaids...)? For what wants Idea of Evil a free astral sword?

    -About the gods to be killed-


    The final part is... Was Emperor's god in the same level as Idea of Evil? Idea was seen only in the idea world, while Emperor in the real world. But also we can recall that EVERYBODY (but not everything?) exists in three layers, but in different bodies. Has idea of Evil a body in the real world? What is it? Could be a fragmented à-la-horcrux (sorry mixing Harry Potter here), and they are the behelits? Also, we saw Guts' ego the first time he wore the berserk armor, protected by a seal inside the armor (just in front of the abyss maelstrom in the eclipse "nightmare"). His ego was reinforced by Shierke's help by remembering his love of Caska. So, if all was INSIDE guts body, then when Griffith descended to see Idea of Evil was using the same path, so what we see was only the entrance of the ideal world, NOT th real place where Idea of Evil body is... So, is Idea of Evil true body at the bottom of "that" tower in Midland capital? Or is Sonia? Where is "that" tower now in astral Falconia? Whas the imprisoned mage in the condemnation tower the previous and first body of Idea of Evil, or just the previous fifth angel? What is the position of Skull Knight with Idea of Evil? Was he the previous Griffith, or the previous Guts, or none?

    Questions, questions...
    Last edited by bcnmanga; May 31, 2011 at 11:58 AM.

  5. #19
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted THM Nindo's Avatar
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    Re: Berserk 321 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by bcnmanga View Post
    -About the gods to be killed-[/U][/B]

    The final part is... Was Emperor's god in the same level as Idea of Evil? Idea was seen only in the idea world, while Emperor in the real world. But also we can recall that EVERYBODY (but not everything?) exists in three layers, but in different bodies. Has idea of Evil a body in the real world? What is it?
    I'm pretty sure that the author said stated himself that the chapter with the Idea of Evil was not cannon.
    He basically changed his mind, and decided that the Idea of Evil was not part of his story anymore.

    "Chapter 83, in which Griffith meets The Idea Of Evil, has been removed from all printings by request of the author on the basis that it gave away too much of the plot too soon. In this case, it might be only temporary."

    http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Idea_of_Evil

    So, technically, right now, it doesn't exist, so there's really no reason to speculate about it.
    It's unclear if the Idea of Evil was scrapped or if it was just pushed back.


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  6. #20
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    Re: Berserk 321 Discussion

    Well, as you say "it gave away too much of the plot too soon". It justs confirms the information included, just removes the event that it shows and the moment where the information is given. I suspect that we will have another presentation of the true overlord soon, if one of the three final elements is revealed in the hypotetical kill of the Sea God (and if my thoughts are true, of course!).

    One thing that I want to know is, if Guts' son (if it is) body is possessed by Griffith, has his son access to Griffith memories? Can he recall the 83 episode and explain it? With this extra point of view will be revealed to Griffith that he was cheated to become the 5th angel (remember Ubik dressed as an old woman in the castle dream?).

    ---------- Post added at 07:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 PM ----------

    I forgot something REALLY important: Vargas!

    http://berserk.wikia.com/wiki/Vargas

    If Vargas was NOT an apostle and NOT a branded, then WHY he was in the Abyss Vortex? And, the behelit is conserved after the transformation into an apostle? Why? What happaned to the crimson behelit of Griffith?
    Last edited by bcnmanga; May 31, 2011 at 12:33 PM.

  7. #21
    MH Senpai 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member DrPepperPro's Avatar
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    Re: Berserk 321 Discussion

    There are still things remaining of the IoE.

    -The lost chapter is "God of the Abyss 2", and chapter 82 right before it being "God of the Abyss" is still in v13. It has Griffith sinking downward and thinking about all the people he sacrificed. He sinks into a vortex and sees a dark shape of the IoE and thinks "God...?".

    -v24 when Flora is explaining stuff to Guts, she says in regard to the God Hand: "...they are the executors of the will of something lurking in the distant abyss of the astral world."

    So while it may not exist as explained in c83, there are hints of some god-like thing in the vortex/abyss.

    Quote Originally Posted by bcnmanga View Post
    If Vargas was NOT an apostle and NOT a branded, then WHY he was in the Abyss Vortex? And, the behelit is conserved after the transformation into an apostle? Why? What happaned to the crimson behelit of Griffith?
    I don't remember where exactly it's said, but all people involved with apostles and such go to the vortex, or something like that.

  8. #22
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
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    Re: Berserk 321 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by DrPepperPro View Post
    There are still things remaining of the IoE.

    -The lost chapter is "God of the Abyss 2", and chapter 82 right before it being "God of the Abyss" is still in v13. It has Griffith sinking downward and thinking about all the people he sacrificed. He sinks into a vortex and sees a dark shape of the IoE and thinks "God...?".

    -v24 when Flora is explaining stuff to Guts, she says in regard to the God Hand: "...they are the executors of the will of something lurking in the distant abyss of the astral world."

    So while it may not exist as explained in c83, there are hints of some god-like thing in the vortex/abyss.

    I don't remember where exactly it's said, but all people involved with apostles and such go to the vortex, or something like that.
    Thank you for the Vargas Mystery explanation! One less in my list.

    Yes! Also we can see the dark sea with behelit tears in Flora's explanation. Indeed Idea of Evil is still very present in all the history, well far from the original 83th chapter, but without this chapter it is simply not presented in the story, yet!

    Now that I check the history I found that i missed a few points. The first is that in Shierke's explanation bodies cannot be in the three layers but 2 at the same time. So I see that the astral layer is the meeting point of all the existing creatures (well, probably there are some that doesn't have an astral body). The second one is that in Flora's explanation is said that the abyss is the part of the astral world nearest to the idea world, but not in the idea world. This is very important, means that an astral weapon can kill really anything. Astral attacks exist, as are seen in Guts injuries in his astral body after the encounter with Slain in Qliphoth.

    So, the mixing of the world that the 5 angels have done are probably to allow a direct contact between human (unaware of the astral beings) and the Idea of Evil "comrades". As is explained too, the belief in astral beings reinforce them (as Isidro say that all being can be killed if nobody believe in them). And well, as is seen in two beautiful chapters after the kill of Emperor's God cleary now beliefs are NOT needed.

    Just probaly now Idea of Evil buried herself in the future, allowing to someone to kill her. Or, well, also they can do a great BBQ with Sea God body and simply nothing happens except for a nice swordfighting action .
    Last edited by bcnmanga; June 01, 2011 at 03:29 AM.

  9. #23
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    Re: Berserk 321 Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by DrPepperPro View Post
    I don't remember where exactly it's said, but all people involved with apostles and such go to the vortex, or something like that.
    When an apostle dies, he gets consumed by the souls of the people he killed and is pulled into the vortex, which seems to be the resting place of all the people who can't find peace in death. For Vargas, it probably was his desire for revenge on the count that brought him there. Ironically, he ends up in a state not much better than that of his tormenter. This seems to go along with the Hellraiser principle that anyone who feels desire for anything may call the Xenobites and be condemned to eternal suffering.

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