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Thread: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

  1. #106
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Where does it say Kirihara ever used Yanagi's data? The only emphasis that was ever explained when it came to the Yanagi/Kirihara pair was the fact Devil mode could be controlled. Nowhere does it say Kirihara ever used Yanagi's data. I don't even remember a single time when Yanaga even spoke to Kirihara aside from the whole "racquet to the back of the knees" thing.
    Fine, do you believe Kirihara > Inui? Since Yanagi and Inui share data, I don't see Devil Mode working on Inui again.
    And Angel Mode so far is exclusive to pairing with Shiraishi.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Let me clarify, I do not know what Kaoz beleives, but I do not believe (nor have I ever) that Inui and Renji are equal. They are equal when it comes to playing "eachother" specifically, but not when it comes to playing other people who are not Data players. Those two views are not the same thing.
    Do you then believe Yanagi > Inui?
    Which there is nothing to really support on anymore.

  2. #107
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Where does it say Kirihara ever used Yanagi's data? The only emphasis that was ever explained when it came to the Yanagi/Kirihara pair was the fact Devil mode could be controlled. Nowhere does it say Kirihara ever used Yanagi's data. I don't even remember a single time when Yanaga even spoke to Kirihara aside from the whole "racquet to the back of the knees" thing.
    It's very much highly suggest that Yanagi gave data of Waterfall to Kirihara here;

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c356/7.html

    So even if you don't remember it, obviously doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  3. #108
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    It's very much highly suggest that Yanagi gave data of Waterfall to Kirihara here;

    http://www.mangahere.com/manga/princ...is/c356/7.html

    So even if you don't remember it, obviously doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
    Okay, so you have an argument for Kirihara knowing where Waterfall was going to land. Fantastic. That still doesn't mean:

    A) Kirihara would not be able to return waterfall without the data.
    B) Kirihara is worse than Inui.
    C) Inui would have beat Kirihara if he had the data.

    Why? Because,

    A) Inui himself said he gathered enough data after three games.
    B) Renji acknowledges the fact specifically "Kirihara's" skill is just on another level.
    C) Data means nothing when you don't have the ability use it.

    Conclusion?
    Bloodshot mode Kirihara vs Inui = Kirihara
    Devil mode Kirihara vs Inui = LOL
    Last edited by Fayte; July 22, 2012 at 10:14 PM.

  4. #109
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Well, for number A B and C. You can't prove the opposite is true either. Because in that match, Kirihara DO got Inui data, so ANYTHING in that match in pretty much void for arguing the case of no data. Care to prove otherwise?

    Oh, and that Kirihara page? That's just tornado snake. For all I remember, Kirihara get completely own by gyro+tornado. And devil mode kirihara never go head to head with Kaidoh even then, and because he's pretty much "escaping" in that form, similar to Third court against Shiraishi, I'll assume Kaidoh is stronger then. In fact, if anything, Kirihara LOVE payback. But he choose not to do payback even if he get hit in his freakin face.

    And EVEN if Kirihara devil manage to beat Kaidoh, Kaidoh still get his own Devil mode, so Kaidoh would own Kirihara again, unless Kirihara devil mode is stronger, but there's nothing to prove that.
    Last edited by -Ken-; July 23, 2012 at 09:19 AM.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  5. #110
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Quote:
    You can't prove the opposite is true either. Because in that match, Kirihara DO got Inui data, so ANYTHING in that match in pretty much void for arguing the case of no data. Care to prove otherwise?
    It is circular reasoning, because you can't prove I'm wrong. Also, my argument is not that Kirihara had no use of Data. My argument is Data is not the reason Kirihara is better than Inui. Data is only knowledge. Knowledge is useless if you do not have the skill to use it. The only thing Data did for Kirihara was tell him where Waterfall would land. That's all we have. That says NOTHING as to why Kirihara was able to go devil mode and send Inui off to the hospital. That has nothing to do with Data, that is just overall skill. Saying otherwise is a baseless argument and highly illogical.

    Quote Quote:
    And EVEN if Kirihara devil manage to beat Kaidoh, Kaidoh still get his own Devil mode, so Kaidoh would own Kirihara again, unless Kirihara devil mode is stronger, but there's nothing to prove that.
    Kaidoh does not have devil mode, I'm sorry. That match was at the end of the Prince of Tennis series, and Konomi had no intention of developing that. It was simply fanservice. Now that the series has come back from retirement, we will most likely never see Kaidoh do that again.

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  7. #111
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Kaidoh does not have devil mode, I'm sorry. That match was at the end of the Prince of Tennis series, and Konomi had no intention of developing that. It was simply fanservice. Now that the series has come back from retirement, we will most likely never see Kaidoh do that again.
    Simply put, on Kaidoh > Kirihara, Kirihara cannot handle the concept of Gyro Laser, Tornado Snake and other Snakes Kaidoh hits all coming from the same stance. He is helpless as f*ck against the concept. Did you see his face? He couldnt do a thing.


    Which is why nothing suggests how Kirihara could actually defeat Yagyuu since he hits Curving Laser and Laserbeam from the same stance. Unless Kirihara can move at Rai speed for a long period of time, Kirihara cannot overcome that threat.
    (Kirihara's stats do not show him having amazing stamina)

    For Kirihara VS Inui, I said before, Yanagi and Inui are shown on various occasions in New Prince of Tennis sharing data.
    If Yanagi can walk over Devil Kirihara, why shouldnt Inui? its strongly hinted their data is equal.
    I believe Yanagi > Kaidoh as Inui probably gave Yanagi all of his data too.

    Kirihara in the National Finals was handed Yanagi's data for the match.

    Yanagi clearly states that HE HIMSELF read the course.

    I believe only a tiny tiny difference separates Inui from Yanagi due to Inui being from Seigaku so Konomi feels obliged to giving him the edge.

  8. #112
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    Simply put, on Kaidoh > Kirihara, Kirihara cannot handle the concept of Gyro Laser, Tornado Snake and other Snakes Kaidoh hits all coming from the same stance. He is helpless as f*ck against the concept. Did you see his face? He couldnt do a thing.
    What are you talking about? Kaidoh gets one game, hits Kirihara in the face (making him go devil mode), and then gets raped. How on earth does this mean Kaidoh is somehow better now?


    Quote Quote:
    For Kirihara VS Inui, I said before, Yanagi and Inui are shown on various occasions in New Prince of Tennis sharing data.
    If Yanagi can walk over Devil Kirihara, why shouldnt Inui? its strongly hinted their data is equal.
    And it is strongly hinted that data has nothing to do with physical abilities. Data means nothing if your body can't keep up. Equal data does not mean equal abilities. Inui HAD DATA to the point of himself saying he gathered it all (two different times), and STILL got dominated. It isn't "just" about data, and that's what this forum needs to understand.

  9. #113
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    What are you talking about? Kaidoh gets one game, hits Kirihara in the face (making him go devil mode), and then gets raped. How on earth does this mean Kaidoh is somehow better now?
    He rape Kirihara. Then Kirihara turn devil mode and refuse to confront him. How does that mean he get rape? If anything, refusing to confront enemy should be the sign that the enemy is stronger, such as what 3rd court do when they try to target Kirihara, because they believe Shiraishi is stronger then them now. Kirihara, the payback lover, get hit in the face, and didn't try to hit a shot against Kaidoh. So how does Kaidoh get rape? Kirihara devil mode against Kaidoh is NOT show at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    And it is strongly hinted that data has nothing to do with physical abilities. Data means nothing if your body can't keep up. Equal data does not mean equal abilities. Inui HAD DATA to the point of himself saying he gathered it all (two different times), and STILL got dominated. It isn't "just" about data, and that's what this forum needs to understand.
    Didn't Renji say that he didn't show data that easily, meaning Inui get the fake data. And by the time he IS assume to get the real data, he faint, so we don't know anything regarding that now.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  10. #114
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ken- View Post
    He rape Kirihara. Then Kirihara turn devil mode and refuse to confront him. How does that mean he get rape? If anything, refusing to confront enemy should be the sign that the enemy is stronger, such as what 3rd court do when they try to target Kirihara, because they believe Shiraishi is stronger then them now. Kirihara, the payback lover, get hit in the face, and didn't try to hit a shot against Kaidoh. So how does Kaidoh get rape? Kirihara devil mode against Kaidoh is NOT show at all.
    Just because Kirihara aimed for Inui doesn't mean he was intimidated by Kaidoh. Kirihara is known for tormenting his opponents, and in this case to torment Kaidoh would be making him watch his partner and friend get knocked out and sent to the hospital to be mummified. It was the psychological route instead of the direct physical route. If Kirihara wanted to beat the crap out of Kaidoh, he would have. There is not one panel showing Kirihara ever being intimidated in any way by Kaidoh while in devil mode. Kirihara doesn't get "scared" when he gets made a fool of, he just gets more angry.

    Quote Quote:
    Didn't Renji say that he didn't show data that easily, meaning Inui get the fake data. And by the time he IS assume to get the real data, he faint, so we don't know anything regarding that now.
    Please, that last line was for dramatic effect. Besides, who's to say Inui has real data even then? He thought he had real data before, just the same.

  11. #115
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    @Fayte
    Inui purposely gave Inui false data. Which means Kirihara's domination doesnt necessarily prove he is better than anyone in that match. Konomi has Yanagi state so.

    And Yanagi DID hand Kirihara data like the proof I just showed. physically, I believe Inui > Yanagi.
    Which is why Inui > Mitsuya. Inui's training regime is 2.25 times harder than Kaidoh's remember?

    And did you see the terror in Kirihara's face when Kirihara realized Kaidoh hit his senpai's shot?
    Both he and Yanagi were scared shitless. They know that if a player can hit Laser + other shots from the same stance that they are likely screwed.
    Kirihara is helpless against it.

  12. #116
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Fayte's Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Airgrimes View Post
    @Fayte
    And did you see the terror in Kirihara's face when Kirihara realized Kaidoh hit his senpai's shot?
    Both he and Yanagi were scared shitless. They know that if a player can hit Laser + other shots from the same stance that they are likely screwed.
    Kirihara is helpless against it.
    That was red eyed Kirihara. Not devil mode. Context is important. Also, they were not "scared." They were surprised that he hit Yagyuu's technique.

  13. #117
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member -Ken-'s Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Just because Kirihara aimed for Inui doesn't mean he was intimidated by Kaidoh. Kirihara is known for tormenting his opponents, and in this case to torment Kaidoh would be making him watch his partner and friend get knocked out and sent to the hospital to be mummified. It was the psychological route instead of the direct physical route. If Kirihara wanted to beat the crap out of Kaidoh, he would have. There is not one panel showing Kirihara ever being intimidated in any way by Kaidoh while in devil mode. Kirihara doesn't get "scared" when he gets made a fool of, he just gets more angry.
    It's also happen to by the ONLY match Kirihara go for psychological instead of physical, coincidence, huh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    Please, that last line was for dramatic effect. Besides, who's to say Inui has real data even then? He thought he had real data before, just the same.
    Who's to say he doesn't have true data then?

    As you can see, this argument is full of assumption. Assumption's not gonna prove anyone right.

    What we know;

    Kaidoh> Red eye Kirihara
    Devil mode Kirihara> Red eye Kirihara
    Devil mode Kirihara> Inui without correct data

    That's it. You can't compare Kaidoh to Devil Mode Kirihara.
    Most of the thing I post is probably assumption if it's not a fact that I support using some evidence from the manga.

    If you knows you're on my ignore list and you quote my post, there's high chance I would ignore you. Or answer you and not look at your response.

  14. #118
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Originally Posted by Fayte View Post
    That was red eyed Kirihara. Not devil mode. Context is important. Also, they were not "scared." They were surprised that he hit Yagyuu's technique.
    Yeah you're right, its only BloodshotMode!Kirihara.
    But nothing suggests he can hit it back. He has no idea if its a Tornado Snake or a Gyro Laser. What can Kirihara do?

  15. #119
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Brandnewkid's Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    "THE TORNADO SNAKE WON'T BEAT A PLAYER WITH RED EYES."

    Just felt the need to quote that amazingly retarded piece of dialogue from the Viz English translation of the manga. Hope that helps.

  16. #120
    MangaHelper 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Kaoz's Avatar
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    Re: Stat Sheet Discussion/Prediction

    Quote Quote:
    [2012-10-07 00:15:55] <Kaoz> btw something about Krauser
    [2012-10-07 00:16:19] <Zi> hmm?
    [2012-10-07 00:16:34] <Kaoz> I think we might undervalue his power a bit... Gin does compare him to Kintarou before the team shuffle, strength wise... obviously he isn't quite as strong, but that's still saying something
    [2012-10-07 00:18:14] <Kaoz> like I wouldn't exactly bet on any MSers breaking the charts at that point
    [2012-10-07 00:23:31] <Kaoz> Zi what do you think?
    [2012-10-07 00:23:37] <Zi> About what?
    [2012-10-07 00:23:55] <Zi> Oh, whether the MSers were above 5 in any stats at the Team Shuffle?
    [2012-10-07 00:23:59] <Kaoz> yeah
    [2012-10-07 00:24:11] <Zi> Well, Tezuka didn't have a 5.5 or 6 in tech
    [2012-10-07 00:24:26] <Zi> Gin may have had a 5.5 in power
    [2012-10-07 00:24:29] <Kaoz> Tezuka and Atobe only had a 3 in speed and Shiraishi a 3.5
    [2012-10-07 00:24:35] <Kaoz> so I could see Kenya with a 5
    Some food for thought maybe.

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