Not a member? Register now!
Announcements
Manga returns! Catch up with the details. Enjoy downloading, translating, and scanlating manga HERE legally!
Like us on Facebook, follow us on Twitter! Celebrate another year with MH and read our yearbook.
Manga News: Check out this week's new manga (7/7/14 - 7/13/14).
Forum News: Visit new sections for Nisekoi and Kingdom!
Translations: Gintama 502 by kewl0210 , Bleach 588 (2)

View Poll Results: Who wins?

Voters
44. You may not vote on this poll
  • Aizen with ease

    8 18.18%
  • Aizen with difficulty

    7 15.91%
  • Yama with ease

    6 13.64%
  • Yama with difficulty

    22 50.00%
  • Draw

    1 2.27%
New Reply
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 89

Thread: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

  1. #61
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Kugo Ginjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Welcome to our Xcution
    Country
    Marshall Islands
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    His release alone is hot enough to burn the sky, said Ukitake. His reiatsu is legendary. NO Shinigami born in the last 1000 years is stronger. I think the words of others do enough justice to show that Yama is beyond anyone. Even after the war, Ukitake again says no BEING is of his caliber.
    That's nice and all, but that was all before we even spoke of transcendentals, and yes shinigami Aizen is inferior to Yamamoto.

    Ukitake says that there is no being capable of replacing him, as in becoming the new Captain commander.
    Aizen (after the fusion with the Hogyoku) becoming the new captain commander would be silly, he was the main villain after all.

  2. Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked this post
  3. #62
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cloudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    That's nice and all but you chose to see it in a different light.
    Last edited by cloudo; May 18, 2011 at 04:34 PM.

  4. #63
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Kugo Ginjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Welcome to our Xcution
    Country
    Marshall Islands
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    That's nice and all but you chose to see it in a different light.
    The different light that is called "facts"?

  5. Thanks 4 Member(s) thanked this post
  6. #64
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    311
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    This isn't you seeing it in a different light, this is you blatantly ignoring facts, which is something like...half-truths fallacy. Yeah, this is the first time I've used logical fallacies in a month. That's how bad it is.

    Your argument is essentially, "he's not replacing Yamamoto because one-armed Yamamoto is stronger." Unless you want to admit you didn't even read the very panel you were attempting to cite as evidence.

    Spoiler: Read only if you don't want to admit you misread the manga show
    Last edited by CeroOskuraz; May 22, 2011 at 08:34 AM.

  7. Thanks 6 Member(s) thanked this post
  8. #65
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member cloudo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    342
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    You chose 1 instance in the whole manga where Ukitake states not a being can replace him, you choose to view it as a statement only to signify no one can be CC, I argued theres more than that in his words. No one is of Yama's strength or caliber. No one can replace him. NO ONE being the key words. Only children find fault in how words are perceived. You're proving such by arguing a point that we all agree on. You're also telling us that those words only meant no one can be CC. I believe there's more to it than that. As has been brought up repeatedly in this very thread. Go on though, be argumentative on someone's POV- when all of us have one gotta love it when someone's take on things is 'blasted', but guys get away with the 'Urahara and Aizen are equals'- hypocrisy at it's finest.
    Last edited by cloudo; May 23, 2011 at 03:14 PM.

  9. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  10. #66
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Kugo Ginjo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Welcome to our Xcution
    Country
    Marshall Islands
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    177
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    You chose 1 instance in the whole manga where Ukitake states not a being can replace him,
    No, you chose that.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    you choose to view it as a statement only to signify no one can be CC, I argued theres more than that in his words.
    Then what?

    What major role does Yamamoto have in Bleach?

    Obviously captain commander,...

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    No one is of Yama's strength or caliber.
    Keep dreaming, the reiatsu of Aizen and Ichigo was so great that people couldn't feel it unless they lowered it.

    A mullet Aizen was able to destroy an object that was considered to be impossible to destroy by reiatsu being

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    Only children find fault in how words are perceived.
    If you are the definition of mature or a grown-up, then I'd rather stay a child

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    You're proving such by arguing a point that we all agree on.
    Appeal to popularity and wrong on top of that, basically you fail.


    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    You're also telling us that those words only meant no one can be CC.
    Why not?

    There's only one job/role that Yamamoto fullfills and that is being the Captain Commander, and no one can replace him for now.

    Or are you forgetting the fact that Ichigo lost his powers and Aizen was evil?

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    I believe there's more to it than that.
    You are trying too hard, Sherlock.

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    As has been brought up repeatedly in this very thread.
    By whom?


    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    Go on though, be argumentative on someone's POV- when all of us have one
    Gladly.


    Quote Originally Posted by cloudo View Post
    gotta love it when someone's take on things is 'blasted', but guys get away with the 'Urahara and Aizen are equals'- hypocrisy at it's finest.
    That however was stated and implied.

  11. Thanks 4 Member(s) thanked this post
  12. #67
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,704
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    The same culprits wherever you go. No one can disagree with someone, his take is WRONG, but the other is correct, that's why cloudo said POV- point of view. Why argue what you believe is true as gospel when the dude just said you look at it in a different light. In Japanese culture there is a reverence towards people and different opinions, even phrases have different meanings and can be interpreted in different light. Yet here in these forums, discussion on basically the same type of text is looked down upon because someone else has a different take on it besides you? This is why the Urahara statement was brought up. A few here couldn't be wrong about it, and tried to preach their opinion as fact. You're doing the same thing. IMPLIED right? Yama implied no captains have been Shunsui and Juushiro's equal. But that's up for debate, why? You can preach all you'd like, but the fact of the matter is Juushiro's words can be viewed as more than just 'no one can be captain commander'. If you don't agree that's fine, but to turn around and say things in the same light regarding other characters, and base your findings on your OPINION of the statement, while saying what cloudo said was wrong- is hypocrisy.

  13. #68
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Austin
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    There is a difference. The statement made about Urahara, and to an extent the statement made by Yama about Shunsui and Ukitake, are open to interpretation.

    However, to say that Ukitake's comment about Yama implies that Yama is more powerful than Aizen in any form is ludicrous. Aizen was the primary antagonist of the entire manga. CeroOskuraz gave 3 very good reasons why Aizen would in fact be essentially the worst possible candidate for CC, yet you still want to argue that his unsuitability for the position is based on Yama's superior strength? That's beyond clutching at straws... it's pure fabrication.

  14. Thanks 2 Member(s) thanked this post
  15. #69
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Quote Originally Posted by Takahashi View Post
    Name one automatic defense aside from the shields Aizen, and Aizen alone displayed. You can't blame Yama for not using some protective ___ that we've never seen before.



    Tousen has also failed at it. Komamura was able to completely hide his presence around him. Clearly even a decent level of control can throw off someone adept at it. And to feel JUST the Reiatsu while your eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and skin are telling you otherwise in a fight no less, isn't a fair expectation.

    Anyway, night Lulu
    SKY seem to be capable of auto defending though I guess this is not available to yama.

    Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy and kind of forgot.

    Anyway back then Tousen was a budding shinigami, if Koma really could still hide his presence from Tousen in his fight in FKT why didn't he try. I think it's fair to assume Tousen has improved his skills since. Also by the time Yama was facing Aizen, Aizen was the only person that was moving so it couldn't have been impossible to sense his reiatsu. Aizen realised Yama's zan could be a problem so he created wonderweiss, Yama could have at least consulted with the 12th division and prepared something(like for instance, remove your real organs like Mayuri did, though this might only be exclusive for Mayuri). In reality, Yama was probably too proud to ask for anyone's help.
    Last edited by HaouLelouch; May 27, 2011 at 10:14 AM.

  16. #70
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Takahashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Country
    Canada
    Age
    24
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,050
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Quote Originally Posted by HaouLelouch View Post
    SKY seem to be capable of auto defending though I guess this is not available to yama.
    Okay, that's an automatic defense, but it's a Zanpakuto ability. Still different from some random magic shield Aizen can create. We've never seen anything like it, because it's clearly something specific to him as far as we know.

    Quote Quote:
    Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy and kind of forgot.
    It's all good, I'd actually forgotten we were even talking before :P

    Quote Quote:
    Anyway back then Tousen was a budding shinigami, if Koma really could still hide his presence from Tousen in his fight in FKT why didn't he try. I think it's fair to assume Tousen has improved his skills since. Also by the time Yama was facing Aizen, Aizen was the only person that was moving so it couldn't have been impossible to sense his reiatsu. Aizen realised Yama's zan could be a problem so he created wonderweiss, Yama could have at least consulted with the 12th division and prepared something(like for instance, remove your real organs like Mayuri did, though this might only be exclusive for Mayuri). In reality, Yama was probably too proud to ask for anyone's help.
    I'd imagine it's exclusive to Mayuri, he's modified his body so much that such a switch would be relatively easy, I doubt it's the same for anyone else.

    All in all, I'm sure there's always MORE Yama could have done, but it all depends on what you're expectations are. My Tousen example was just to show that you can't always find someone with Reiatsu sensing, and clearly Yama, a guy adept in all areas of Shinigami combat would have tried that. After all, Reiatsu sensing is the one "sense" that is not fucked up by KS, but if Yama was unable to do so without provoking him and taking one for the team, I'd imagine it just wasn't possible.

  17. #71
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member cracker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    739
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Doesn't the jewel grant him immortality? Aizen wins on that technicality...

  18. #72
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Austin
    Country
    United States
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    464
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    Doesn't the jewel grant him immortality? Aizen wins on that technicality...
    Nah, in this battle treat Aizen's Chrysalis form as a separate being, and disregard the Hogyoku / further transformations.

  19. #73
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Lol thanks cero oskuras for making my day, your rebuttal to the no-one can replace yama 'argument' was truly hilarious.

  20. #74
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Country
    United States
    Age
    31
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    1,704
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Quote Originally Posted by ShootToKill View Post
    There is a difference. The statement made about Urahara, and to an extent the statement made by Yama about Shunsui and Ukitake, are open to interpretation.

    However, to say that Ukitake's comment about Yama implies that Yama is more powerful than Aizen in any form is ludicrous. Aizen was the primary antagonist of the entire manga. CeroOskuraz gave 3 very good reasons why Aizen would in fact be essentially the worst possible candidate for CC, yet you still want to argue that his unsuitability for the position is based on Yama's superior strength? That's beyond clutching at straws... it's pure fabrication.
    Fabricating what? Like I said, you see things as you want to see them. You chose one instance out of the whole manga to criticize. The whole argument was that Aizen had to use a Jewel to ascend to a level beyond just that of a Shinigami. But cloudo, and I, don't think that level was beyond what Yama is capable of. Not only did he have enough to injure Aizen with his bare hands by just grabbing his arm, I believe that his fire was hot enough to burn EVERYTHING. Hoguyoku included. Clutching at straws is reasonable to say if you had a point that he was using only that one statement. He just chose to point out that one statement, while he also said there were other times that not only did others state how powerful Yama was, but Yama himself, as well as Aizen. You try to argue with points that make little sense. Not only are you making up arguments, but you're misreading as well. The thing that was stated was that Ukitake's comments were more than just a base for Yama's position. He even said this. You misread it and think he's talking about Aizen couldn't be CC. Who brought that up? You. Aizen is your guy- that's great, but to criticize someone's thoughts on what a comment meant is a weak argument. There isn't anything in the argument that says things about Aizen being of lesser strength because of JUST Ukitake's comment. That's one of many. He just chose that comment, and you wanna refute it like that's the only instance in the manga that Yama has been labeled as the 'strongest'.
    Last edited by freshseth83; May 30, 2011 at 05:58 PM.

  21. #75
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Country
    United Kingdom
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    147
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Yamamoto vs Chrysalis Aizen

    Quote Originally Posted by freshseth83 View Post
    Fabricating what? Like I said, you see things as you want to see them. You chose one instance out of the whole manga to criticize. The whole argument was that Aizen had to use a Jewel to ascend to a level beyond just that of a Shinigami. But cloudo, and I, don't think that level was beyond what Yama is capable of. Not only did he have enough to injure Aizen with his bare hands by just grabbing his arm, I believe that his fire was hot enough to burn EVERYTHING. Hoguyoku included. Clutching at straws is reasonable to say if you had a point that he was using only that one statement. He just chose to point out that one statement, while he also said there were other times that not only did others state how powerful Yama was, but Yama himself, as well as Aizen. You try to argue with points that make little sense. Not only are you making up arguments, but you're misreading as well. The thing that was stated was that Ukitake's comments were more than just a base for Yama's position. He even said this. You misread it and think he's talking about Aizen couldn't be CC. Who brought that up? You. Aizen is your guy- that's great, but to criticize someone's thoughts on what a comment meant is a weak argument. There isn't anything in the argument that says things about Aizen being of lesser strength because of JUST Ukitake's comment. That's one of many. He just chose that comment, and you wanna refute it like that's the only instance in the manga that Yama has been labeled as the 'strongest'.
    what is this I don't even...

    we're arguing apples and you're talking oranges.

New Reply
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5 6 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts