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Hueco Mundo King vs Gotei13 Captain Commander
Eroding Time vs Disintegrating Flames
Decaying Bones vs Flexing Muscles
Evil Bling vs Epic Beard
Senior Citizen vs Senior Citizen
Starting State: Sealed
Starting Distance: 50 meters
SOM: In character
Moderator message by: tocAwesome opening post
Last edited by Waking_Dreamer; April 25, 2011 at 07:24 AM.
First of all, thanks for this. I really wanted to see this in the tourny, but sadly....Tessai.....Dammit.
Anyway, I'm very torn on this, Yama would undoubtedly have the advantage when they're both sealed, but once released, it's hard to say.
As powerful as Yama is, and particularly Ryujin Jaka, Barragan's Respira was insane to say the least.
Soi Fon's Bankai, whatever you think of it, was the only explosion that caused enough of a shockwave to throw a captain and VC around. This was stressed even more so by the fact that Soi Fon was tied down with some special steel sash. IMO easily one of the most powerful explosions in Bleach.
Yet when fired point blank in Barragan's face, and also enclosed in a small area, he was able to age it almost instantaneously. Not only that, but the guy had half his face blown off and all it did was piss him off. The guy can tank, I'm not even sure how you kill him short of disintegrating him completely.
Respira is also faster than Soi Fon. I would bet that Yama is also faster than Soi Fon, but enough to dodge something that flies out in a wide angle, can be directed, and even a single touch can get a kill, I don't know how well Yama can handle it.
Yama's best bet is if Barragan gets cocky and decides to let Yama go all out in an attempt to kill him.
Not sure who I'd vote for at the moment though.
Barragan is imo the only opponent who is a threat to Yama other than Aizen, so I'm glad to see them up againt each other. I'll play devil's advocate and say Barragan. He won't be able to do anything to Yama unreleased, but conversely, his time slowing ability will prevent Yama from double boning him, which I believe would destroy him as it did WW, and prevent Yama's fire attacks from reaching him initially.
If he decides to release quickly, which he probably will, he didn't even consider Soifon a remote threat yet decided to release reasonably early anyway, he has a good chance. Respira is without a doubt one hell of an attack - it's fast, can barely be blocked by even Hachi's defensive Kido, and can age ANYTHING it touches. We know Yama is a tank, but he's not immune to aging (as we can clearly see ), so if he gets hit, he dies. Barragan on the other hand, had to be defeated by his own ability - even Soifon's Bankai in a contained area did very little to him.
Respira was fast enough to catch Soifon, so I believe it would catch Yama as well - I feel they're about the same level as far as speed is concerned. I believe Yama's best chance is to keep trying to dodge Respira and bombarding Barragan with high level binding Kido followed by offensive Kido / Fire attacks, although I'm not sure this will work. I certainly don't think Ennetsu Jigoku would work, he can't hold Barragan in place as he did Aizen - he would just get Respira in the face so even if he had time to prepare EJ, it wouldn't do any good, and I'm not sure that any weaker Shikai attacks would be enough to destroy Barragan.
Barragan's attack is fast, an immediate kill, and impossible to counter. His durability is also incredible, which is a plus against someone with immense power such as Yama. So for this fight, I'm siding with Barragan - I'll be interested to hear other arguments, hopefully not too many which say things like "Aizen said he was more powerful than all of the Espada and he also said that Yama was more powerful than him, so Yama beats Barragan"
I think that Yama could probably have a lot of good arguments provided for him, but I feel he doesn't have what it takes to overcome Respira from what we have seen thus far.
Well this thread will be a great discussion area and quite active I foresee, dont have much time now, but I just want to ask:
Respira is said to be able to age anything...while Ryujin Jaka's flames is said to be able burn away anything and everything in Soul Society so...Would Respira age away Ryujin Jaka's flames? Or would the flames burn away Respira into nothing?
They're both powered by rieatsu and Ryujin Jaka's command itself is"Reduce All Creation to Ash", so it seems their powers sort of parallel each other and both leave a "ashes to ashes, dust to dust" result.
Last edited by Waking_Dreamer; April 16, 2011 at 11:56 PM.
Barragan's reiatsu levels are not great enough to counter Yamamoto's flames. I'd even say If Yamamoto was hit by Respira, due to his reiatsu, it'll take quite a long time to deteriorate whatever it hits due to the reiatsu embedded in Yamamoto's body
There's a reason Barragan didn't just go releasing respira around Aizen despite desperately wanting to kill him and reclaim his home, and it's because he could not defeat him
Yamamoto could destroy Barragan barefisted much like he did Wonderweiss, because I doubt Barry could react to his speed enough to form a defense and even if he did it wouldn't be enough.
Or, he could roast him with Ryujin Jakka's flames, or techniques like Nadegiri
Either way you slice it, he takes this fight with ease. Typical case of being severely outclassed
If Barragan could truly defeat Yamamoto, then Aizen wouldn't have created WW at all. So Ryujin Jakka would probably overwhelm Respira based on Reiatsu. However, I do believe Barragan has a chance against bare handed Yamamoto. After all, once Yamamoto is tagged with Respira, he won't have any means of cutting his limbs off. Well, maybe he could use his hands to do so, but I doubt it.
Last edited by Omiem; April 17, 2011 at 09:47 AM.
Firstly natural aging and respira based aging are two entirely different things, one is induced but reiatsu (is super fast and has a result deadly) and it as been noted in the manga, that basically anything spiritual based can be resisted, negated etc. if the opposing spiritual pressure is strong enough, usually its best if there is an overwhelming difference. For e.g Yama vs Barragan lol
With that said, I basically agree with Buzz Killington (lol horrible name btw).
Yama takes this with ease. Barragan tanked the second explosion of Soifon's bankai, a bankai she can normally use only once every 3 days. Meaning that she pushed herself way beyond her limit to do twice in less than 24 hours, hell an hour lol. So I think its pretty safe to assume most of the bite of that attack was gone and all that left was mostly bark. Its like a dude trying to have sex in his refractory period (excuse the analogy lol) but you get the point. Its a decent tanking feat but not nearly as great as people make it out to be. He won't be tanking Yama's attacks like that, the difference between Yama and Soifon is night and day.
This is Yama when he's fresh, when he's in character and Barragan is also in character (arrogant much?). Pffft the dude is dead before he releases. And even factoring the chance he gets to release (Barragan), he still dies. Yama just too destructive.
And just to be a little difficult, how exactly do you age a fire, flame etc? Conceivably (based on real world mechanics) if the source generating the fire, flame (Yama) is continually producing it, how do you age it away...you age the oxygen? (a gas that has been around since forever (not literal) and worse its being continually produce by plants and bacteria around you.
Last edited by cracker; April 17, 2011 at 11:11 AM.
I figure the difference in spirit power would at the very least offer some resistance to Reiastu based aging since Yama is obviously so much stronger. *I'll add though, to be honest I wouldn't be surprise if they fought and Barragan couldn't do Yama a damn thing even with Respira but thats entirely opinion based.*
Its speculation obviously so don't hold me to that.
I'd imagine Barragan could even die like how Allon should have if he wasn't such a damn tank...either the blow to the chest or the vertical bisection. Take your pick.
IMHO Yama's flames ARE reiatsu based since they're produced by a shikai release,but Baragan's Respira IS also reiatsu based since it (how otherwise it would be possible,duh!)is an ability "produced"by Baragan.Of course it's reiatsu based,it's not something natural.And as long as the difference in reiatsu is big enough an ability CAN be ignored(or minimalized...eg : Aizen 3.0 Black Coffin,despite being a supernatural kido,was easily shattered by Ichigo,his reiatsu was big enough to destroy that kido).Someone already said this ( if I remember correctly Gran Maestro said this,thanks for him making this special sentence): Battles in Bleach are battles of reiatsu.Kenpachi didn't have hierro or any other crazy shit,yet Ichigo couldn't scratch him.Why?Because of the difference in reiatsu.So,IMHO Respira won't affect Yamamoto as it affected Soifon,granted Yama's reiatsu is (irrefutable) much higher than Baragan's.It would,inquestionably,affect him to a certain degree,but it will not affect him in the same way it affected Soifon(basically respira would work "hard" on Yama,aging him much,much slower).Nadegiri should do the job(if not kidou #96 or EJ,though the latter is questionable).
First I have to say: Thanks for such an awesome visual design of the thread Waking_Dreamer Oh and this:
"Evil Bling vs Epic Beard"
Sadly, Epic Beard takes this. Not easily mind you. He'll have to break a sweat, but in the end he would overpowered the bone guy with his insane reiatsu. Even without going into Bankai, I think Yamamoto has what it takes to take down Espada whose reiatsu is fourth in strength when released (After WW, Yammy and Stark).
In bleach we have to judge the fights taking into account Ability and Reiatsu, with those geezeres it's like this:
Barragan Ability > Yamamoto Ability
Yamamoto reiatsu >>>> Barragan Reiatsu
It took unreleased Wondy a scream to shatter captain's strongest attack in Bankai. True, it was WW's ability, but it was his ability in unreleased, roughly 50% power, state whereas Hitsu's was Bankai - 100%. And I believe that gap in reiatsu between Yamamoto and Barragan may be even greater than that of WW (at 50%) and Hitsugaya (at 100%).
Huh? Barragan would get his ass kicked
Yama wins this..You cant age fire. Its impossible. Starrk would stand a better chance vs Yama...Barragan isnt fast enough or strong enough to seriously damage Yama. Granted Respira is arguably the most powerful technique in all of Bleach probably even more so than Yama's fire but Yama is just so overwhelming that his flames would drive Respira back until Bara is burnt to a crisp. Yama wins this. No one besides Aizen is a serious threat to Yama
I don't really get the "Barragan has way lower Reiatsu" argument - he's one of the most powerful hollows that Aizen could find in the whole of Hueco Mundo. It is highly probable that he is a Vasto Lorde, which already I believe qualifies him to be a lot stronger than the average Captain. I would not expect Barragan or Starrk to be too far removed from Aizen in terms of Reiatsu, and Aizen not to be too far removed from Yama, so I think it's an exaggeration to say there's a huge Reiatsu difference. I think Yama is being somewhat overhyped as some invincible godlike being... he isnt - he's just extremely powerful. I believe the following to be true:
Reiatsu: Yama > Barragan
Durability: Yama = Barragan
Speed: Yama > Barragan BUT the time dilation ability means Yama will find it practically impossible to land a blow in CQC
Abilities: Barragan >> Yama.
Yama has proven himself capable of destroying multiple weaker enemies with ease with large radius attacks, and has the potential with EJ to destroy the most resilient of enemies. However, he won't be able to use EJ against Barragan - he would have to hold him in place, yet would be incapable of getting near Barragan in the first place. Are his other Shikai attacks capable of destroying Barragan? Possibly, but possibly not - Barragan has displayed immense durability feats, and he would be able to slow time and prevent the attack in its entirity from reaching him under normal circumstances.
Barragan on the other hand, has the single deadliest attack in Bleach. It's incredibly fast, doesn't require preparation time, and is a guaranteed kill when it hits, regardless of the opponent's durability.
I believe Barragan takes this, with difficulty of course.