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Translations: Bleach 600 by BadKarma
I'm going to argue/propose that Clare has always been powerful, even from ch 1 to before she becomes a HA (after she killed the SNY in the Rabona cathedral).
Clare the Superhuman Child:
Clare the Trainee Claymore:
Clare as a ranked Claymore:
(prior to becoming a HA, as we know Clare's extremely powerful as a HA already)
does anyone want to comment on this? agree/disagree? I'd love to hear what people think about whether Clare was truly far more powerful than a rank 47, prior to becoming a HA, or if she was in fact a true rank 47 prior to becoming a HA.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; May 25, 2011 at 09:04 PM.
I don't think Clare was always powerful prior of becoming a HA. The awaking itself proves that. Would a real powerful person even go over the limit or tap into her yoki to kill the same yoma that pushed her over the edge the first time?
Being powerful is subjected to the moment the event take place. Was Clare before her HA; strong, fast and skilled to be consider "powerful"... powerful like she is now? I think not, all she has was the "protential to be powerful" which is not the same as being "powerful". Being powerful means having the power at ones disposal already.
Power have to be compared apple to apple, and orange to orange in this case. Lets compare Clare to somone that we know is truely powerful, Teresa for example.
As a child can Clare beat up other Claymore kids same age as her? I think she'll do about just as well or badly as any other kid, she seems average. Teresa on other hand I think may acturly get beat up by other kids, she seems like a softy as a child IMO.
As a Trainee, can Clare beat other trainees? I think she can beat some, namely the one's that deemed failed. Teresa on other hand can beat all the trainees at the same time with one arm tied behind her back I think.
As a normal Claymore prior to HA, can Clare beat other Claymores? Well, I think there is proof enough that she can't. I'm sure they have to spar against each other more then a few times before given their ranks and she must of lost a lot of sparing matches. Teresa can of course take on the top four without even using 10% of her yoki.
I just don't see how Clare can be consider "Powerful" when she totally show such poor and desperate action each time she fight some yoma before her HA. I mean a claymore with real power like Teresa would just one shot everything if given the same situation as Clare has been up to her HA.
I do have to add that Clare have more determination on all accounts then most characters in the story so far. She is super stubborn. Also as a fan, sometimes we can overread the tea leaves when Yagi may have really just done some stuff to make things seem "more exciting" but shouldn't be taken too seriously. I think such is the case as when Clare was yelling at Teresa to "Look out!".
Last edited by Khorr; May 23, 2011 at 11:54 PM.
1. that's assuming that the cathedral Yoma, was jsut a "weak" albiet SNY... what if he was actually an AB... now Clare would be powerful, compared to being weak.
2. about Clare saying "look out":
rank 3 Sophia, rank 4 Noel, and rank 4 Ophelia, all could not even see Irene's Quick Sword, yet little human Clare was able to follow all of their movements and sword swings in battle, shouting warnings to Teresa in enough time for Teresa to hear/heed the warning a respond/react! that's not a literary "tea leaf" to make it more exciting... that's suggesting there's something very suspicious about our "human" child Clare... and to further this, again our little "human" child Clare was also able to sense Priscilla's yoki, its "signature/identity", and not just its immense strength. and then there's little "human" child Clare's INDESTRUCTABLE body (especially her head/face, lol, as seen when she's a Claymore), and than the fact that she was "targetted" by two NYs, and at least one of them, was interested in her for some other reason, besides food...
3. I'm not saying that Clare was as powerful as she is now. But I do feel that her "potential" was always there.
but, what my agument is, is that Clare was far more powerful than a rank 47, now what rank exactly I'm not sure, but I feel/argue that Clare was indeed powerful (not Teresa level, lol, no one is not even Priscilla, lol), even prior/before becoming a HA.
let me try to explain:
Clare HERSELF (it does NOT come from Teresa's flesh!) has a massive "pool of power", however she's unable to harness/access/activate this massive "pool of power" readily/easily (though she seemed to be able to easily/readily as a Trainee... lol), but upon becoming a HA, it opened up the "floodgates" of her massive "pool of power", which we've seen her excellerate at a phenomoninal rate (except we've seen otehrs improve vastly rapidly as well, lol, meh).
4. about Clare's "weakness and desperation"
I think we must remember something... Clare was PERSONALLY trained by Rubel himself, "I [Rubel] taught you [Clare] everything that which you [Clare] know". This means not only combat (as can be seen frightening with Rubel catching Trainee Clare's sword without any effort), but also "I can be a noble woman one moment and a flirtatious prostitute the next", (um... ewww... Rubel teaching her this... lol), and let's not forget Clare's stealth ability, her "assassin's creed" into Rabona (early manga when she became a HA).
Also, we got Priscilla too who was "tutiliged" (can't spell, lol) by Rubel as well, and look at how deceptive Priscilla LEARNED to be!
so, let's look at Clare, because Clare too is extremely deceptive, so I'd say obviously Clare and Priscilla have learned to be just as deceptive as their BC, Rubel, is, grins.
so, Clare's "weakness and desperation" could very well be deception to throw off her enemies and allies alike, as we actually do see her do quite a few times, remaining secret, keeping her real power and abilities hidden, just like her beloved TEresa had done as well, wisely, as she too is doing, wisely.
Last edited by HegemonKhan; May 24, 2011 at 01:44 AM.
To truely know how powerful Clare herself can be, we must use a clare that's infused with a normal yoma instead of Teresa parts. There is no way that will happen however. Also being 1/4 yoma instead of 1/2 yoma makes her even weaker in her early stage of being a Claymore.
I agree Clare should been higher rank then #47 but was deliberately kept low by Rubel's doing. What would her true rank be though? I think I'll use the example I will give to try to gage.
Well I think Rubel expained pretty well the yoma at the Cathedral was not an AB but just a yoma that lived longer then most and gotten big. However for argument sake lets just say the thing was a weak AB. How high would the rank of Claymore have to be without going awaking to take down that yoma?
I think we can safely eliminate all the single digits, any one of them won't even break a sweat in taking him down.
For rank 10-19 we have Raftela #10, Undine #11, Veronica #13, Cynthia #14, Nike #15 Deneve #15, Eliza #17, and Lily #18. I think Undine and Veronica can take down that yoma no problem. We can't use Deneve because she's an HA, making her a single digits. Eliza and Lily was very rarely scine. The best example in the group would then be Cynthia and Nike. We seen them both going up against some real ABs so that yoma should be no problem for them.
Let skip to rank 30's cause there's no one notable in the 20's except for Helen. We can't use Helen for the same reason we can't use Deneve. For 30's its silm pickings too but we have Tabitha #31 at least to compare, the rest are only seen very briefly and are all dead. I think Tabitha would do alright against that yoma, maybe getting kocked around a little but ultimately, once she tapped in to her yoki that yoma is as good as dead and she wouldn't have to go over the edge.
Rank 40's we have Yuma #40 and Clarice #47. Now this is when things start getting intresting. I think Yuma would have a difficult time with the yoma but still able to defeat it once she use her yoki at say 70%. Clarice however I think have a slim chance because even if she uses her yoki, there is not much there.
Now remember Clare was already very wounded before from trying to protect the two humen before her final confrontation with the yoma at the cathedral. So from that, we will have to give more credit to Clare. Have she not been wounded and had her sword with her to fight the same yoma again in a 1v1 fight. I think she could defeat him with some effort. She would take some lickin and have to tap in to her yoma power to defeat him though. Remember, she had to tapped a lot of yoma power to cut the thing in half. I think she would do better or just as well as Yuma #40, but not as well as Tabitha #31, so her real rank would be maybe mid 30's. Is it "powerful"? Well not really, but it's a lot better then #47 for sure.
I still think the case where child Clare yelling "Look out" was done to dramatized the fight and to show how much she really cared for Teresa. It was also done because.. well, Clare is the main character and often times the author do strange things to make the main character's background seem special or more important. Basicly, she get the special treatment reserved only for main characters of the story. To implied otherwise would mean she's not human at all but a super human with yoma like power but not an ounce of yoma in her and that would really throw a rench in to the story. We can also safely state she had no yoma power as a child. If she had, Teresa would of sense it. Instead, she just felt Clare was strange and stubborn.
I also think, being an energetic human doesn't mean it translate to being a powerful AB. I mean look at Riful, I bet she was kind of lazy as a child. She seems like the kind that like to sleep late or stay home and read instead of going outside and do crazy stuff like Regalado.
It's only natural that her childhood is strange for the story. That doesn't mean she's "gifted" in any sense however. I mean, would you rather Yagi make her childhood "Normal"? That would be a pretty pointless and boring story I think. Clare is pretty much like Luke Skywalker whom pretty much sucked in his early career as a jedi but had a lot of luck and favor stacked for him compare to his father Anakin Skywalker (Darth Vader) whom was truely gifted but got defeated by the plot.
Last edited by Khorr; May 24, 2011 at 10:34 AM.
1. I have a theory that explains how being 1/4 Yoma actually makes a Claymore more powerful than being 2/4 Yoma, hehe.
(if interested in it, let me know)
2. Clare as a human could sense Yoki, so at least Clare's Yoki Sensing as a Claymore isn't from Teresa's flesh, so we don't know how much or if at all is TEresa's power vs Clare's own power.
I personally REFUSE to believe that Clare is merely awesome because of Teresa, as that's just so lame, boring, and unspirational, sighs
3. Yes, Rubel said it was a SNY, but could he not be lying? I man seriously that Yoma is much more like an AB than a SNY! And come on, if it's a SNY just from eating many humans, than we should be seeing SNYs all over the place, so no, I really do believe that he was indeed a AB, and that cruel lying SOB Rubel lied to Clare that she had merely killed a SNY, when she actually had killed an AB, hehe
4. who's able to kill an AB sololy?
ranks 1-5 (for almost all ABs, except the most powerful ABs)
now if this is a really weak AB, than probably ranks 6-13, but if its not than ranks 6-13 can't kill it sololy.
-though Clare didn't kill it entirely sololy, she did have help/support from Galk+Cid too.
-also, do note, that Clare was NOT releasing near 80% yoki, for the entire fight, save for her fatal strike, killing it, where she did use 80% YR, and thus began to Awaken, but she became a HA instead, as we know.
-also, do note, that in the first battle against it, Clare was still on the pills, though they might have been wearing off, but still...
-note that, even with the 2nd battle, Clare was still slightly under the pills as she still didn't have her full sensing ability back to normal levels, despite having her eyes returned to silver, as she checked the clergymen, hehe.
-though it is possible that this Yoma had very good Yoki Suppression as well, which would support it more likely being an AB, instead of a SNY, hehe.
so, if this SNY, was in fact an AB, than that would make Clare at least rank 13 in power, *grins*
and actually that does seem to match up, with Clare being able to take on the male AB, who was likely near rank 10, maybe between rank 10 and rank 15 at most. As he was extremely powerful as not even HA rank 6 Miria could defeat him along with help from HA rank 15/19 Deneve, HA rank 22 Helen, and HA rank 47 Clare (well Clare's initial help anyways in the battle, hehe)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; May 24, 2011 at 06:53 PM.
If it really was an AB, the organization must of been really slacking to create a male AB that's so weak. It didn't have any cool or unique powers or features at all like all the other AB. The only thing it could do was shoot its claws out from its finger, but that is something most SNY can do anyway. I still stand by my case that even if it was an AB, somone of rank 30-40 can solo him because we can call him whatever we want but we can't change his power level.
Last edited by Khorr; May 24, 2011 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Most ABs, actually don't do anything special, most ABs only have tentacle attacks, just like NYs do. Only the significant/special ABs, are shown doing other cool or dangerous stuff.
It's canon in the databook that the org wanted Clare to become closer to Raki, and pretty obvious that Rubel interfered with the Org's relationship. You've collected a lot of evidence that Clare deserved to be more than number 47, HK, and I've also suspected that the monster in Rabona Cathedral was an AB (though maybe a weak one), that Rubel knew in advance and that he intended for it to be a suicide mission for Clare.
Even as a child, kawaii Clare showed recklessness and manipulativeness...
Last edited by faintsmile1992; October 31, 2011 at 06:19 AM.
I look at it (Rubel's motive) a bit differently:
Rubel wants Clare (or Clare+Priscilla+Destroyer, hehe) to be his own personal "Ultimate Weapon" or "One 'Woman' Army" of His. So, he sends her on "higher ranked" missions to push/force/accelerate her rise in power, and somehow he knows she'll not get killed, that she can handle the missions he gives her... or he can/might always be able to intervene in time to save Clare's life... like maybe telling Irene to go save Clare (and improve Clare) from Ophelia... and then Rubel, after Irene saves and enhances his precious Clare, he has Rafaela kill Irene, ... "Rubel's a very BAD man!"
So, Rubel dispises Raki initially, as he sees Raki doing the same thing to his precious Clare as he saw done to Teresa by Human Clare, WEAKENING, and he doesn't want his precious Clare to be weakened by this Raki kid-teen Human. However, obviously if this was the case, it didn't stay this way for very long, as Rubel could certainly have killed Raki at any time...
Last edited by HegemonKhan; October 31, 2011 at 04:59 PM.
The problem is that Raki's presence made Clare strnger, according the the databook, which is written from the Org's point of view by Yagi-sama, and is ergo canon. It has also crossed my mind that Rubel may object to Clare's attraction to Raki as a creepy stepfather sort of thing, as the author does like his wierd sexual themes.
Well, if once Rubel realized that Raki was actually (more) beneficial than detrimental, that helps my theory.
Initially, Rubel: "Ah, no! This Raki is going to turn my Ultimate Weapon into a mushy human-like mother of N kids"
later, Rubel: "wait... Raki is actually helping my ultimate weapon along, making her more powerful... also... I can use Raki to get Clare to go on this mission... possibly even intending for this mission to force Clare's Awakening, and with Raki there, she'll resist it, creating my HA Clare warrior, and moving her closer to being my ultimate weapon!"
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 01, 2011 at 04:38 AM.
And Raki-chan is indeed daddy material, he has the masculine alpha traits women go for but hes also good natured, witty, kind, polite and respectful... what female wouldn't want him to worship her like he does Clare? And the fact I'm so like Clare only helps in my case lol.