Naruto 541 Discussion

[ShiroPhoenix]

I really didn't want the debate to be dragged out any longer then it has but I want to throw out a fact and hopefully leave it there. These "Naruto vs Jiraiya" debates have been going on for so long and most of the evidence has been provided through simple means, "Naruto beat Pain while Jiraiya lost". I don't disagree that Naruto is much stronger than before but it still doesn't mean that he has surpassed his master (not saying he won't but even with the Rikudo mode I think he has a little left to go while in comparison with Jiraiya).

Now as for the fact I mentioned it is nothing more then this. Here we clearly see Pain, despite his massive ego and god complex, praising Jiraiya and admitting that if Jiraiya had known his secret he would of lost. If this isn't substantial enough then we can move on to the battle aspects, and if we observe the battles closely there are many things to take into account, and firstly it would be battleground and scenario.

Naruto knew there were six pain's and fought all six from the beginning in a wide open area while in sage mode already (not to mention three gigantic toads along with ma and pa). Jiraiya on the other hand fought in a tight, enclosed space only believing there to be one Pain and holding his own with just one toad and unable to use most jutsu's at that time due to the summoning. Once he was in sage mode two more Pain's appeared further confusing Jiraiya yet he didn't let it phase him and as we all know after a while with a nice collaboration from ma and pa he defeated the three pain's while sustaining no/minor injuries. The part which really brought him to his defeat was him being unaware of Pain's resurrection ability which eventually led to him losing his arm and his life.

Just from these facts alone it's more than safe to say that if Naruto was in Jiraiya's situation then he would of lost while facing only the first Pain. Also if Jiraiya's information had never made it to konoha then, again, it would be safe to say Naruto would of lost due to lack of knowledge. There are much more aspects I would like to point out but I think this is more then enough to conclude that you can't judge Jiraiya's strength based on this battle. In real battle I believe Jiraiya would of beat Naruto in no time with his justu arsenal and experience, and I still believe him and Itachi were the two strongest characters ever shown

[Senju_WaRRioR]

I really didn't want the debate to be dragged out any longer then it has but I want to throw out a fact and hopefully leave it there. These "Naruto vs Jiraiya" debates have been going on for so long and most of the evidence has been provided through simple means, "Naruto beat Pain while Jiraiya lost". I don't disagree that Naruto is much stronger than before but it still doesn't mean that he has surpassed his master (not saying he won't but even with the Rikudo mode I think he has a little left to go while in comparison with Jiraiya).

Now as for the fact I mentioned it is nothing more then this. Here we clearly see Pain, despite his massive ego and god complex, praising Jiraiya and admitting that if Jiraiya had known his secret he would of lost. If this isn't substantial enough then we can move on to the battle aspects, and if we observe the battles closely there are many things to take into account, and firstly it would be battleground and scenario.

Naruto knew there were six pain's and fought all six from the beginning in a wide open area while in sage mode already (not to mention three gigantic toads along with ma and pa). Jiraiya on the other hand fought in a tight, enclosed space only believing there to be one Pain and holding his own with just one toad and unable to use most jutsu's at that time due to the summoning. Once he was in sage mode two more Pain's appeared further confusing Jiraiya yet he didn't let it phase him and as we all know after a while with a nice collaboration from ma and pa he defeated the three pain's while sustaining no/minor injuries. The part which really brought him to his defeat was him being unaware of Pain's resurrection ability which eventually led to him losing his arm and his life.

Just from these facts alone it's more than safe to say that if Naruto was in Jiraiya's situation then he would of lost while facing only the first Pain. Also if Jiraiya's information had never made it to konoha then, again, it would be safe to say Naruto would of lost due to lack of knowledge. There are much more aspects I would like to point out but I think this is more then enough to conclude that you can't judge Jiraiya's strength based on this battle. In real battle I believe Jiraiya would of beat Naruto in no time with his justu arsenal and experience, and I still believe him and Itachi were the two strongest characters ever shown

Hmm I know Jiraiya's strong and he took down 3 Pein bodies but comparing this to Naruto isn't the same, Naruto fought all 6 Paths at the same time (which means 6 Visions) and he had to fight GOD Realm (strongest body) so if Jiraiya was to fight GOD REALM it would have been so much difficult than those other 3 bodies, but ultimately I think it's kinda useless to compare Naruto vs Jiraiya we'll never see them fight, so there'll be too many "If this If that" and that can always be debated or viewed from different perspectives, however, there's one thing that I can agree on completely is the age difference between Jiraiya and Naruto which gives Jiraiya the advantage in terms of battle experience.

[Shinsatsu]

Hmm I know Jiraiya's strong and he took down 3 Pein bodies but comparing this to Naruto isn't the same, Naruto fought all 6 Paths at the same time (which means 6 Visions) and he had to fight GOD Realm (strongest body) so if Jiraiya was to fight GOD REALM it would have been so much difficult than those other 3 bodies, but ultimately I think it's kinda useless to compare Naruto vs Jiraiya we'll never see them fight, so there'll be too many "If this If that" and that can always be debated or viewed from different perspectives, however, there's one thing that I can agree on completely is the age difference between Jiraiya and Naruto which gives Jiraiya the advantage in terms of battle experience.

I didn't want to help continue this debate but,
It never was a Naruto vs pain fight. It was Konoha vs Pain. Naruto with an army of frogs and Tsunade's summon => info gathered during the battle from every ninja out there + even Jiraya's efforts and yet, he LOST the fight if you don't remember... The rest is plot stuff. The Kyuubi power wouldn't come out if it wasn't for hina-plot-move. Naruto lost physically and mentally at that point... It was over.

So, for someone who had all the help he can get, someone who prepared for the fight in every possible way and got beaten... Jiraya is far more stronger and respectable.

Let's say that Naruto had senju mode and wen't to fight Pain instead of Jiraya in his own country surrounded by his rain and guarded by Konan... With no knowledge about his abilities or his numbers... The result is obvious as the sun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abGVLvojwaw