Claymore 116 Discussion

[wickedsmile]

HK:

You had to make me re-read that most depressing of chapters, where my Lady of Illusions met her "end." I would disagree with your assesment in regards to the Twins. Miria stated that the Alicia and Beth's fighting abilities exceed those of the twins. Miria remarked that she could easily lop off their heads. Miria had difficulty dealing the twins an "incapacitating blow."

I think Yagi is going to focus primarily on one of the former number one warriors. It should be Miria since she has fully released her youki and is about to go full bore against Hysteria. I recall in the last moments of the Pieta conflict where Clare and Helen assist their captain to her feet. I think we'll be witnessing a re-occuring event. The story has splintered in so many directions and there is so much material to cover. Is it August yet?

[HegemonKhan]

Miria does state that the TAITs are powerful and I think says they are more powerful than her (though I need to check up on this, as it might be quite wrong).

Also, Miria needed to YR and use her Phantom Step just to try to get over to the TAIT in her Claymore state and to run away from the TAIT in her Dragon form, as Miria couldn't defeat the TAITs while they were in their Awakened forms, they were too dangerous and she was too weak.

------

seriously though, the TAITs are NOT very impressive... which makes Miria not that impressive...

do you seriously think the TAITs are more powerful and/or a more deadly/dangerous opponent than Rigardo ???

I sure don't.

How about Dauf ?

I sure don't.

How about (Awakened) Ophelia ?

I sure don't

so nah, I think the TAITs are actually quite "weak", like maybe at the level of that female single digit/ranked AB Ophelia killed.

which would make Miria even weaker than that if she died admit she's weaker than the TAITs, hehe

---

as, let's go back to Rigardo and Miria:

Miria was just able to survive for a small amount of time against Rigardo at HIS WEAKEST PL.

Miria never even faced off against Rigardo's actual PL, only Partially Awakened Clare did.

So, Miria was actually far weaker than Rigardo's PL, as he wasn't even using any YR on Miria.

and because of that, I seriously doubt that current Miria has even improved to Rigardo's PL, and hence why she was weaker than the TAITs, and obviously inferior to Hysteria.

I just can't see even teh current Miria being able to take on Rigardo, Duaf, and heck even Awakened Ophelia... my opinion only though, hehe

[Khorr]

Miria does state that the TAITs are powerful and I think says they are more powerful than her (though I need to check up on this, as it might be quite wrong).

Also, Miria needed to YR and use her Phantom Step just to try to get over to the TAIT in her Claymore state and to run away from the TAIT in her Dragon form, as Miria couldn't defeat the TAITs while they were in their Awakened forms, they were too dangerous and she was too weak.

Ahh... I re-read the chapters for the fight and I don't think that was the case. I think her problem wasn't that she couldn't defeat them as in killing them. The problem was she didn't know if she should kill them or let them live. Wickedsmile was right, Miria could of kill the TAITs easily but trying to KO them without killing them was the problem. Also, the fight wasn't between her and the TAITs alone, it was Miria vs TAITs + Rafetla (#10) screwing with her mind the entire fight.

I just can't see even teh current Miria being able to take on Rigardo, Duaf, and heck even Awakened Ophelia... my opinion only though, hehe

Honestly, I don't see any of the current claymores or ghosts that are still alive able to take on the likes of Rigardo really, with the exception of Partially Awakened Clare still. I think Rigardo was an exceptionally powerful AB. I even think Rigardo had the protentinal to be #1 like Ilena but fate put them in the same era as people with excpetional skill and power (hince, Teresa and Isley). Even with Dauf (he was #3), it's hard to picture any of the current people left that can defeat him. Maybe Miata can, but it's still 50/50 at best. I think an absolute 100% victory against the likes of Rigardo would take a real #1 or an excpetionally strong #2, because we seen what a #3 (Galatea) can do already and thats not going to be nearly enough.

The new resurrected three formal #1s will be very useful to gauges how strong #1 Claymore are suppose to be because. All we had now to go on was an uber #1 Teresa that can't be compared to anyone but Priscilla the insane yoki monster, Rafaela whom we never seen her fight and Alicia/Beth whom are really just "controlled ABs" and not "Claymores" in a traditional sense.

[White Silver King]

I don't see today's Miria having any trouble with Dauf. He's a stationary opponent so he's pretty useless against her. As soon as she discovers his soft spots, he's done for.

[Khorr]

I don't see today's Miria having any trouble with Dauf. He's a stationary opponent so he's pretty useless against her. As soon as she discovers his soft spots, he's done for.

I totally disagree. Dauf may be stationary but it doesn't mean he's a statue and won't go to block at an attack. The only reason Galatea was able to hit Dauf in his soft was because she can use her yoki to "hold" him. Even the "soft" spots arn't really that soft, they're just "softer" as Galatea implies. It would still take a good, solid strike. It's not going to be the same for Miria when Dauf is flailing his arms about. If Dauf moves just a little, the person would of missed the weak spot. Dauf can swing his arms plenty fast and can shoot the rods out pretty accurately too. We seen Galatea getting hit by Dauf even after her near 80% YR, and Galatea is by no means slow. Is Miria precise enough in her strikes to counter that? Also, Dauf may be stupid but sometimes he can be rather tricky throwing curveballs at people when it comes to fighting. We also seen YR Clare using the Quicksword up against Dauf with little effect, sure Clare wasn't very good with the QS back then but it's was still plenty fast and she knew about the soft spots since Galatea told everyone. I think Dauf will defeat Miria for the same reason he can defeat most claymores, it takes tons and tons of hit in his soft spot to take him down but he only need one hit to take out his enemy.

[~.~]

Yay, another awesome chapter. Just as expected, the 3 resurrected were able to taken care of most warriors in a flash. Though Yagi-sensei only gave little info about Hysteria. That's a bit disappointed

IMO, about the fights:

Roxanne vs The Twins: pretty easy for Roxanne, no surprise, though Miria had troubles in wounding them, the way Rox was toying with them is really impressive. I've no more comments on this =='. But if reinforcements come, it's most likely that Deneve/Helen/Dietrich would join this one

Hysteria vs Miria: the most important fight, might be able to control the outcome, and it seemes quite bad now that Miria realeased her Yoki massively. By doing that, it's true that she might have a chance to nullify the differences in their techs, but it might cause Hysteria to release her Yoki also, and judging the situation, where she still confused about herself, and that means no guarantee on her knowing about her limits, might result in an awakening, just like Prissy back then. It's like Miria was battling a second Rigardo =='. However, we still have Anastasia, maybe she can help Miria with her floating tech, I pray that Hysteria wont be able to perform her step on thin air/far distances =='. That's a shame since Miria can only fight on a number-one level in a group.

Cassandra vs Aundrey/Ray/Nina: can't judge now, Cassandra seemed to have some troubles, but it's not sure that she was either confusing about herself and distracted from the fight, or was struggling under the 3's attack. Even if she was struggling, it meant nothing, as we can see Teresa struggled alot fighting with Prissy at first, and I cant say that she wasnt serious that time, but after a short while, she recollected herself and caught up to the battle. This might happen to Cassandra, too. And chances to win? ==', Aundrey's Swift Blade is likely a defensive tech, in complement to that, Ray's drag strike is strongly offensive, but it is too slow and inappropriate to fight a small yet moving target (IMO), and Nina's Shadow Chaser, completely lock on the target and let herself wide open, that's such a risky tech. So, uhh...=='

The way Yagi-sensei distributed the warriors to into fights made me feel that Hysteria was strongest among the 3. As for Cassandra and Roxanne, they maybe on par, but Roxanne's statement hinted that Cassandra might be superior to her...

Cant wait to see what this "Dust Eater" is about!!

Also, Hysteria seemed to be very annoyed about the fact that she didnt remember anything, though she acted so calm, the way she talked showed she was very mentally unstable, I wonder what she would do if she finds out about that!! And about Miria, I too wonder if she would kill Hysteria if she has a chance, now that she had a superior opponent (though she did say that she would have Hysteria return to her grave one more time)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, I don't see any of the current claymores or ghosts that are still alive able to take on the likes of Rigardo really, with the exception of Partially Awakened Clare still. I think Rigardo was an exceptionally powerful AB. I even think Rigardo had the protentinal to be #1 like Ilena but fate put them in the same era as people with excpetional skill and power (hince, Teresa and Isley). Even with Dauf (he was #3), it's hard to picture any of the current people left that can defeat him. Maybe Miata can, but it's still 50/50 at best. I think an absolute 100% victory against the likes of Rigardo would take a real #1 or an excpetionally strong #2, because we seen what a #3 (Galatea) can do already and thats not going to be nearly enough.

Yeah, Rigardo and Dauf were former No.2 and 3, there's no doubt they were exceptionally strong, might even be compared to an AO. Awakened No.2 Agatha, without the ghosts' teamwork, taking her down was nearly impossible for any single warrior.

However, I think that Miata 90% is sure to win against Dauf. She has so many potential in her that no warriors have ever had: high speed atack, strength to tear up Yoma by bare hands (was Prissy able to do that?? ^^!), highly developed senses that can predict attacks even without Yoki, and a ridiculous regeneration that was only seen on Prissy/AFs/Deneve. In Rigardo's case, I dont know, aside from Clare (in her partially awakened form), it is impossible for any alive warrior to dodge his speed attack, let alone keep up with it (or maybe an 80% Miria could )

So the final ultimatum is Miria is NOT weak, hehehe

[HegemonKhan]

Is Miria:

1. high YR'ing (near 80%, or 90%, hehe) ??

2. Partially Awakening ??

3. Fully Awakening ??

(I want to see Partial/Full Awakens of the HAs, dammit!!!! We've seen Clare's, it's time we see the other HAs' too now, hehe)

[Goral]

After seeing raw I can finally roughly tell what symbols CRH have. The versions of the chapter I've seen have improved it too much and Cassandra's symbol is so blurry that you can't even begin to guess what it looks like. Thanks to the raw I see that it resembles Greek psi letter. See for yourselves (click the image to zoom):

[kakavodka]

I just had Prk surgery on Friday, my eyesight may now be permanently damaged from re-recessing the chapter but w.e. Here are my few thoughts

1. Miria is not gonna awaken lol. If you guys remember she has only used her advanced phantom technique once in the entire series and that was either against Riful when she helped to save Audrey and Rachel or when fighting Agatha. At that point she was vibrating and flickering and Miria has never been shown with that illustration twice. Now that she's facing Hysteria, she's not holding back and is going to use her full power. Remember that Miria has never truly been cornered down since the time gap, not by the Twins nor by any claymores except for Raftela which was a sneaky attack. Think back to the awakened hunt with Clare, deneve, and Helen, Miria saved her best moves until the last possible moment. Her way of fighting hasn't changed and shes gonna use her new mirage.

2. I wanna see Priscilla explode from the ball thingy and fight the number 1s....

3. Why is Cassandra looking ok? I thought she was all cut up and disfigured according to Rubel. Could it be Priscillas arm is like a red bull and only giving the warriors temporary wings?

4. Someone hit tabitha for going the wrong way.

5. Hysterias attack doesn't hit twice, she runs up in front of her target then strikes in super speed. It's something Miria is too clumsy to do, she probably would just run into her opponent rather than landing a strike that's where the big difference between Hysteria and Miria.

[Fê - forever alone]

Interesting chapter, I fell in love with Hysteria, and don't much about the others, but they are also good characters to work with.

Roxanne, for now, is the only one who has consciousness of all, memories etc. It seemed to be the most sarcastic and wicked of them, also seemed - like her nickname suggests - she has two personalities.

Not that she suffers from bipolar disorder or the same "condition" that I believe Priscilla suffers. Roxanne seemed very san, gentle and changing an image another cynical consciously in order to manipulate the people around you. The bye-bye after the innocent and wicked smile give me that impression.

Not that she suffers from bipolar disorder or the same "condition" that I believe Priscilla suffers. Roxanne seemed to me very sane, changing between a gentle image and another cynical consciously in order to manipulate the people around her. That "innocent bye-bye" followed by a wicked smile gave me that impression.

I think the difficulty in controlling her comes because of her manipulative personality and conviction. I imagine that her death was ordered by the org. so she wouldn't cause any more problems, at least, i guess that was the main reason for it.
-
Cassandra, in my view, seemed too innocent. By Dae's words, she is strong, at least has a monstrous youki, capable to strike fear in the warriors around her, though perhaps she haven't countered the attacks that caused her death.

The difficulty to control her, I imagine, that is due to her temperament and the lack of control of her own power. With that nickname, it's just what I can think about. The moment the fight becomes harder, she should go berserk, and as we know, the bigger and stronger the Youki is, the closer a claymore is in becoming a awakened, and the closer it gets of awakening, the harder it gets to control itself, as so as to maintain the human mind.

So I believe that her death was ordered because of these reasons.
-
And on another level, lies Hysteria. Beautiful, elegant and [b]I like to think [/ b] that she is the strongest of them. From what Miria said, it is possible to conclude that she may be a potential rebel, enjoying life and the simple things like feeling the breeze of the wind on her cheeks.


So, I believe she disrespected some rules, kept secrets from the org. and shouldn't strictly follow certain orders/instructions. She died for being "close" to awakening - I also like to think she might be like Miria and Clare, as well as some of the ghosts - and so her death have been ordered.

Funny to think about it, because if she did not send her black letter to anyone, how did they knew she was at her limit? For me, Rubel's fingers are in this cake, because he also pitched the death of Clare, Miria and company, but wasn't successful.

We saw that in the end, she rebelled against the org. similarly to Teresa, taking out the Clare factor. At her execution, she fought for life, which resulted in a massacre. I guess among the three of them, she is the one that most likely will to turn against the org. and teaming up with Miria.

I'm very curious to know more about her, more details of her death and her personality, hitherto serene and confident.
-
Now, talk about why Teresa would not be among them, to me, is easy:

Teresa hid her true powers from the org. They knew she was strong, but not how much she really was. They had no idea of her true strength, then there isn't much more reason to imagine that they would consider her to be strongest then those chosen three.

We don't know the conditions of Teresa's body, nor if Dae preserved it. It was used in Clare, and we still don't know how this is done. All we know is that the bodies of claymores that go through this process are, somehow, twisted to the point of causing disgust in some men, and cause some kind of repulsiveness in some warriors, like Miria once told that she would never forgive the org for doing what they did to her/their body/bodies.

Teresa was the strongest of her era, but "recently", we saw a member of the org. say that Alicia was the strongest of all time, then the org.'s concept of force isn't very "reliable", because Alicia was easily killed seven years after that comment.

And, in my personal view, I don't want Yagi to bring back Teresa, since that would defame and remove all poetry and impact of her death, and would spoil one of the best embodiments of the ideal woman I've ever seen.

Teresa lives in Clare, and in her memories, and also in ours, and for me, it is good enough.

Of course, no one would want to see Teresa revived and fueled with Priscilla's flesh and blood, that, to me, would be the end, lol.

To conclude, where's Deneve with her group to give a help? Some warriors have already gone, but will any of those who stand with Miria, die?

My guess: Rachel, Nina and the twins die. At least that's what I'd like to see, lol.

Ps.: my English sucks right now, I know. I'm sorry brave ones who had the guts to read all of this, lol.

[HegemonKhan]

5. Hysterias attack doesn't hit twice, she runs up in front of her target then strikes in super speed. It's something Miria is too clumsy to do, she probably would just run into her opponent rather than landing a strike that's where the big difference between Hysteria and Miria.

the manga through Miria and Hysteria, directly says, that there were two strikes by Hysteria, the first one (presumably performed/struck as Hysteria ran by Miria) cut Miria (her shoulder or side of body if my memory is good, lol), and the second strike was going to be fatal (aimed at one of Miria's vital points/organs), but because Miria knew what Hysteria was doing, Miria was just able to turn around and parry the 2nd attack by Hysteria coming from behind Miria.

[TheCatintheHat]

I do not know, the chapter is exciting, but regarding the plot, I think that the fact that Roxanne had killed Cassandra, plus their emotional uncertainty, it could turn the actions against the three former number ones, and even the way that they died. Now I believe everything could happen since there is a human-everybody supports each others environment

And yes, it is time to see the others at least half awakened.

[Saint Markus]

okay, for the last like ten chapters, they've been introducing too many new characters and not moving the story forward. i thought, once the Miria's group learned the truth about the organization, they were going to take them down?.

more #1's...?. seriously, where's Claire?. i almost forgot she was even in the manga.

[~.~]

Is Miria:

1. high YR'ing (near 80%, or 90%, hehe) ??

2. Partially Awakening ??

3. Fully Awakening ??

(I want to see Partial/Full Awakens of the HAs, dammit!!!! We've seen Clare's, it's time we see the other HAs' too now, hehe)

Me too me too, I want to see a partially awaken Miria, maybe she would gain super speed like Clare and Rigardo . However, I dont think she would go all out now, maybe she needs more speculation on Hysteria's tech, or maybe Deneve's group is coming close and Miria should be able to catch their Yoki and aware that regrouping will bring more winning chances... Just guessing.

I wonder why she didnt try to confront Hysteria's step with hers. So far, she only stated that Hysteria's step has more accuracy than hers, but she still can keep up with speed (like the Windcutter and the Quicksword). Up to this time, she had spent 7 years to develope a Phantom step without Yoki releasing. As it is now, will releasing Yoki make any difference? Yoki could help gain speed and strength, what about accuracy?? What if she gains more speed yet unable to control it (like Clare in Pieta), would her accuracy drop and the gap between techs is even wider??... confusing

Or was she really using her step, yet all she could do was avoiding being wounded fatally??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Funny to think about it, because if she did not send her black letter to anyone, how did they knew she was at her limit? For me, Rubel's fingers are in this cake, because he also pitched the death of Clare, Miria and company, but wasn't successful.

We saw that in the end, she rebelled against the org. similarly to Teresa, taking out the Clare factor. At her execution, she fought for life, which resulted in a massacre. I guess among the three of them, she is the one that most likely will to turn against the org. and teaming up with Miria.

Wow, great theory . The Black Coats, as far as I know, had kept a constant watch on their warriors in charge. Think back in Teresa's case, Orsay was even able to know she was scaring the villagers, he knew of her massacre of the bandits. So I think that when a warrior exceeds her limits, they would know right away.

If she was a hidden rebellious one (like Miria), I think the org would send her to an impossible mission, like exterminating an AO , that way the org would be benefited regardless the result. If she showed her rebellious actions, they could only take care of her (with No.10, for example)

So I think that she either deserted, or really exceeded her limit back then that the org pronounced her death. She was No.1, she was not expendable =='
----------------------------------------------------------------

Teresa hid her true powers from the org. They knew she was strong, but not how much she really was. They had no idea of her true strength, then there isn't much more reason to imagine that they would consider her to be strongest then those chosen three.

.
T.T the BCs might not judge exactly her power, but they were aware that (according to Orsay) she was the strongest creature back then, not only from her era, but up to that time, that means they knew that she surpassed all the previous No.1s, then whyy?? (

[TheCatintheHat]

Mmm ... thinking better, I see Miria overrated by the rest of the claymores, yeah she is good but I would like to see how good she really is now, but until now the story has show the fights of Clare with really difficult strong levels, and Miria what??? I do not think that Miria could have fought enemies at the level of Dauf, maybe now she can confront someone of that level, but Clare has not shown her actual strength, both have increased their power but I think that clare has shortened the gap between her and Miria considerably.