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View Poll Results: Who wins ?

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  • Shikamaru

    108 90.00%
  • Shizune

    12 10.00%
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Thread: Shikamaru vs Shizune

  1. #16
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    The Shikamaru Factor in the forum. The concept that plagues many, many VS threads.

    "He's a genius, he'll find a way to win." <--- LOL

    Also, I'm not picking Shizune but I do find it funny that there were posters saying things like "well, she was chosen to be Tsunade's right-hand so she has to be pretty strong" when they want her to win to...

    "she hasn't shown anything so she gets curbstomped [by the guy who isn't good at one-on-one fights]*" when they want the other person to win. LOL how did Shizune go from being strong because she's Tsunade's right-hand to be garbage? Flip-flopping at it's best.

    *Btw, just because he beat Hidan doesn't mean he's good at one-on-one. I've yet to see him go one-on-one against someone and win without some sort of elaborate pre-planning or some sort of ambush. He's either beaten someone because of his teamwork with his TEAM, made some elaborate preparation with FULL knowledge of his opponent's abilities, or made a ambush

    Make it so Shikamaru faces Hidan again with no prior knowledge or preparation and let's see who'd get curbstomped lol
    You have said everything,this is what I always say.here shikamaru is alone,and his opponents' abilities are unknown,he is just able to think a good plan when he has got his comrades,but in a situation as these fights he is nothing,this is why he shouldn't have defeated kankuro.

  2. #17
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Josear XIII's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Even though i will not go with Shizune, but Finally i heard some sense coming from wise Plyr88 Thanks man, not everyone think they are actually shinobi fighting here

  3. #18
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Shaunlim's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    *Btw, just because he beat Hidan doesn't mean he's good at one-on-one. I've yet to see him go one-on-one against someone and win without some sort of elaborate pre-planning or some sort of ambush. He's either beaten someone because of his teamwork with his TEAM, made some elaborate preparation with FULL knowledge of his opponent's abilities, or made a ambush

    Make it so Shikamaru faces Hidan again with no prior knowledge or preparation and let's see who'd get curbstomped lol
    Winning without pre-planning, no teamwork and no full knowledge. Also for the ambush part, what are you expecting from him? They are ninjas, they are suppose to ambush their opponents and exploit any possible weakness.

    ---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    You have said everything,this is what I always say.here shikamaru is alone,and his opponents' abilities are unknown,he is just able to think a good plan when he has got his comrades,but in a situation as these fights he is nothing,this is why he shouldn't have defeated kankuro.
    Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 and this is not even considering how many times he tricked Tayuya. So yeah, I don't know what's your definition of a good plan but I would consider those 3 to be great plans.

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  5. #19
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Quote Originally Posted by THM Nindo View Post
    Are you being sarcastic?
    Because, he fought Temari and Tayuya and lost to both of them...
    No, I wasn't be sarcastic. Forfeiting against Temari is not the same as actually losing and Tayuya was more of a stalemate. And don't forget Kin.

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  7. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jessie's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Nothing to see here. Just move on to the next round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    The Shikamaru Factor in the forum. The concept that plagues many, many VS threads.
    Actually I find the DBZ Factor far worse The concept that only superpowered characters with lots of cool attacks can win fights.

    Quote Quote:
    "He's a genius, he'll find a way to win." <--- LOL
    Well duh. That is what he is better than anyone at. That is how he wins his fights. No different than Batman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    "she hasn't shown anything so she gets curbstomped [by the guy who isn't good at one-on-one fights]*" when they want the other person to win. LOL how did Shizune go from being strong because she's Tsunade's right-hand to be garbage? Flip-flopping at it's best.

    *Btw, just because he beat Hidan doesn't mean he's good at one-on-one. I've yet to see him go one-on-one against someone and win without some sort of elaborate pre-planning or some sort of ambush. He's either beaten someone because of his teamwork with his TEAM, made some elaborate preparation with FULL knowledge of his opponent's abilities, or made a ambush
    I am not sure where you keep getting this idea Shikamaru is no good in one-on-one fights? The second fight we saw him in he beat Kin. And as much as I love Temari, he raked her over the coals and left her mind bleeped. You are confusing not liking to fight with being poor at it.

    I don't think Asuma would of ever mentioned Shikamaru as a Hokage candidate if he couldn't fight one-on-one at a high level.

    Quote Quote:
    Make it so Shikamaru faces Hidan again with no prior knowledge or preparation and let's see who'd get curbstomped lol
    Someone needs to read that fight again. The first one. Shikamaru figured out Hidan's justu the first time he faced him without any preptime. Someone who can think 10 moves ahead and go through over 200 scenarios in a second doesn't exactly rely on preparation. Hidan was BEAT and his head would have been used as a paperweight on Tsunade's desk. It was Kakuzu that saved Hidan.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    You have said everything,this is what I always say.here shikamaru is alone,and his opponents' abilities are unknown,he is just able to think a good plan when he has got his comrades,but in a situation as these fights he is nothing,this is why he shouldn't have defeated kankuro.
    No offense. But my head just hurt from reading this. It's just... Anyway, Shaunlim already tore this apart.

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  9. #21
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Deepak5191's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Even if Shizune's attacks are unknown and Shikamaru fights alone, Shikamaru takes this. Mainly for the fact that Shikamaru is a genius but also because Shizune has failed to show anything remarkable. Her ranged attacks aren't all that special, a poison gas cloud and senbon attacks. Nothing that requires a genius intellect to avoid if they've seen it once.

    Taijutsu is also unlikely to work since getting that close is a sure way to get yourself caught by Kagemane.

    Shizune is an excellent medical ninja but none of those skills her in this fight. Shikamaru is smart enough to maneuver her into his attacks and once that happens its over for her.

  10. #22
    Registered User 下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member MONKEYS's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Sigh, if I had one wish, it would be to erase the word "Genius" from Kishi's memory.

    Anywho, while Shizune isn't anywhere near my favourite character list, I still think she's got this.
    1. Shikamaru doesn't know she's a poisons expert (sure, I'll give it to him that he'll figure it out pretty early on)
    2. Shikamaru is pretty weak overall, physically speaking (his chakra doesn't work for long)
    3. Shizune is a medical ninja, and Tsunade herself states that requires a large amount of knowledge http://www.mangareader.net/93-241-3/...apter-236.html (don't know if this equates to intelligence, but generally speaking, absorbing large amounts of knowledge needs intelligence)

    I'm not going to bring the rank difference into this (I don't think it holds any value), btw Shizune is a full Jonin.

    Okay, so here's how they'd both fight:

    Shizune, being perceptive, would fight from long range, and probably open with a nice poison mist.

    Assuming Shikamaru gets out of that (I'd say 50/50 chance, it's a pretty big cloud), he'd keep his distance. However, that also weakens his jutsu
    If he's hit by poison cloud, he's screwed.

    Anyways, assuming he's not, he'd probably keep his distance and use the shadow binding shuriken technique, and associated trick that he used on Hidan/Kakuzu.

    Okay, sure, if you saw my Shino vs Anko debate, you know I'm not a great fan of the databook stats. However, Shizune has a speed of 4/5, and she was able to keep Kabuto on edge in their first encounter, also, her intelligence is 4.5/5, and she is a Jonin (my point there is she has battle experience) so she'd probably be wary of Shikamarus' shadow techniques by that point in the battle (she'd probably try to bait the ability out of Shikamaru at the beginning of the battle, assuming she has no knowledge of his abilities).
    After that, it would probably be a shuriken throwing match, but Shikamaru would run out after using the two chakra knives (we've never seen him imbue his chakra into normal shuriken), and Shizune would most likely hit him, since she's not using chakra when throwing knives, and he is (ie this would tire him out).

    Even a true genius can't do anything against insurmountable odds.
    I'll wait to see if there are any good counter points before I vote (not that my vote will really change much, just saying)
    Since I'm not godlike with flash or anything, I'm going to dedicate my signature space to the people who make our weekly manga viewing possible.

    I don't know their names, but really, anyone who works to bring manga to my eyes weekly, you have my thanks.

  11. #23
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    Well duh. That is what he is better than anyone at. That is how he wins his fights. No different than Batman.
    Are you serious? Just because he can figure things out doesn't mean he has to means to deal with it ¬_¬

    Quote Quote:
    I am not sure where you keep getting this idea Shikamaru is no good in one-on-one fights? The second fight we saw him in he beat Kin. And as much as I love Temari, he raked her over the coals and left her mind bleeped. You are confusing not liking to fight with being poor at it.

    I don't think Asuma would of ever mentioned Shikamaru as a Hokage candidate if he couldn't fight one-on-one at a high level.
    What? Don't make things up. He didn't beat Kin one-on-one. LOL wow. Did you even read what happened?

    Also, what are you talking about? Shikamaru never beat Temari. Are you referring to some random fan-fiction?


    Quote Quote:
    Someone needs to read that fight again. The first one. Shikamaru figured out Hidan's justu the first time he faced him without any preptime. Someone who can think 10 moves ahead and go through over 200 scenarios in a second doesn't exactly rely on preparation. Hidan was BEAT and his head would have been used as a paperweight on Tsunade's desk. It was Kakuzu that saved Hidan.
    I agree, you need to go back and read. Shikamaru figured it out...AS A SPECTATOR. Plus, even as the spectator, by the time Shikamaru figured it out, Asuma was already in too deep. The ritual started and he was f**ked. If you replace Asuma with Shikamaru, yea Shikamaru would figure it out...after Hidan gets his blood. You can't know Hidan needs blood UNTIL he gets your blood and uses it and if Shikamaru is one-on-one against him, he'd be going after Shikamaru, not Asuma.

    Hidan was beat by a tag-team, not by Shikamaru. You seriously need to read again.

  12. #24
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Shaunlim's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post

    What? Don't make things up. He didn't beat Kin one-on-one. LOL wow. Did you even read what happened?

    Also, what are you talking about? Shikamaru never beat Temari. Are you referring to some random fan-fiction?
    I don't see anyone helping Shikamaru winning against Kin. Unless a wall is too unfair of an advantage. Temari clearly lost although Shikamaru decided to give up. won the battle but lost the match as stated by Kurenai.

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  14. #25
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    That is the person that's Kin? lol I assume they were talking about Kingaku. Regardless, he's still terrible in one-on-one.

    Temari didn't lose. You capture your opponent temporarily...you can't finish them off...and they will escape within 10 seconds...how is that a win now? LOL

  15. #26
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Jessie's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    What? Don't make things up. He didn't beat Kin one-on-one. LOL wow. Did you even read what happened?
    Did you? He fought Kin Tsuchi in the chuunin exams and beat her by himself. I would recommend you go back and read those chapters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    Also, what are you talking about? Shikamaru never beat Temari. Are you referring to some random fan-fiction?
    He beat Temari. He then forfeited which shocked everyone including Temari. That was the whole point of the fight. How talented Shikamaru can be when he puts his mind to it. But ultimately he finds fighting troublesome and just doesn't care. Based on that fight he was still promoted to chuunin because Hiruzen understood what he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    I agree, you need to go back and read. Shikamaru figured it out...AS A SPECTATOR. Plus, even as the spectator, by the time Shikamaru figured it out, Asuma was already in too deep. The ritual started and he was f**ked. If you replace Asuma with Shikamaru, yea Shikamaru would figure it out...after Hidan gets his blood. You can't know Hidan needs blood UNTIL he gets your blood and uses it and if Shikamaru is one-on-one against him, he'd be going after Shikamaru, not Asuma.

    Hidan was beat by a tag-team, not by Shikamaru. You seriously need to read again.
    I never said Shikamaru beat Hidan one-on-one in the first fight. He later beat Hidan by himself. I said Shikamaru's invlovemnt led to Hidan's defeat in the first fight. Without Shikamaru, Asuma would have been quickly killed.

    Asuma was not in too deep since Shikamaru figured out how to counter Hidan's jutsu. Shikamaru maneuvered Hidan out of his circle with shadow sewing and Asuma cut his head off. At that point hidan was beaten and Asuma would of been fine. Shika had saved Asuma. Hidan can't do anything to you when he is just a head. But Kakuzu placed Hidan's head back on his body and he returned to the circle. Then Asuma was screwed.

    Again, it is you that have to read those chapters. But I am sure you'll come back and tell me I am wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    That is the person that's Kin? lol I assume they were talking about Kingaku. Regardless, he's still terrible in one-on-one.
    You confused Kin Tsuchi with Kinkaku of the Gold and Silver Brothers? Yikes! I just can't take you seriously when you keep saying Shikamaru is "terrible" one-on-one. You've provided nothing that would make anyone believe that. I have to question your knowledge of the material.

    And stop with the "LOL". It doesn't help your argument.
    Last edited by Jessie; June 14, 2011 at 02:37 PM.

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  17. #27
    Intl Translator MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted juUnior's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    I would like to add to what Jessie and Shaunlim said concentrating on "winning" over Temari and current fight: remember, at that time Shikamaru hadn't got Kagenui - and from what we know, it works pretty well against weaklings <wow, even Hidan was pierced, but for the sake of this argument lets assume that chakra monsters cannot be affected by this>. Shizune isn't chakra monster, once Shika caughts her with his shadow, its the end for her. Why make it more complicated.
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  19. #28
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Shaunlim's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Quote Originally Posted by Plyr88 View Post
    That is the person that's Kin? lol I assume they were talking about Kingaku. Regardless, he's still terrible in one-on-one.

    Temari didn't lose. You capture your opponent temporarily...you can't finish them off...and they will escape within 10 seconds...how is that a win now? LOL
    He can't finish Temari off? How so? Because he said he had too little chakra? But let's not forget about half a fight later, he was able to fight against 8 sound ninjas and hold them with his shadow for a period of time. So yeah, I find it hard to believe that Shikamaru was actually that tired that he can't finish Temari off. It's like he said, one match is troublesome enough for him. Also, I'm pretty sure I have already linked you to where Kurenai said that Shikamaru won the battle but lost the match.

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  21. #29
    MangaHelper 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member kkck's Avatar
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    I have to go with shizune here. She has at her disposal experience, a number of weapons and medical ninjutsu. She is a jonnin for crying out loud. If shikamaru had a teammate he would have a chance but that is not the case. If shikamaru was an RPG character he would be a support caster. He could stun, provide distraction and an overall strategic advantage but if he were to meet face to face with an actual combat character he would get destroyed. Shikamaru is outclassed.

  22. #30
    MH Senpai MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
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    Re: Shikamaru vs Shizune

    Quote Originally Posted by kkck View Post
    I have to go with shizune here. She has at her disposal experience, a number of weapons and medical ninjutsu. She is a jonnin for crying out loud. If shikamaru had a teammate he would have a chance but that is not the case. If shikamaru was an RPG character he would be a support caster. He could stun, provide distraction and an overall strategic advantage but if he were to meet face to face with an actual combat character he would get destroyed. Shikamaru is outclassed.
    I thought similarly when I cast my vote.

    Shikamaru is one of my favorite characters, and he is an impressive ninja, but he has not really done much in the way of engaging in direct combat on his own that would make me think that he could take out a jounin-level ninja for whom he has had no prep time to plan out a strategy with no assistance.

    Shizune from what little we have seen of her in combat seems to possess enough skills to beat Shikamaru. Besides medical ninjutsu, she is also skilled with poison. Given that in this tournament she is allowed common knowledge and thus would have some general idea of Shikamaru's shadow techniques given her knowledge of the Nara clan, she would be wary of this and account for his shadow techniques. (The common knowledge allowance does not really benefit Shikamaru in this fight since Shizune is not a famous ninja, but even if we were to assume he knew of her as Tsunade's apprentice and that she knew medical ninjutsu, there is no reason he should know anything about her poison techniques.)

    It would take some effort on her part, but I think Shizune would end up winning.

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