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Translations: Gintama 510 (2)
Even though i will not go with Shizune, but Finally i heard some sense coming from wise Plyr88 Thanks man, not everyone think they are actually shinobi fighting here
Winning without pre-planning, no teamwork and no full knowledge. Also for the ambush part, what are you expecting from him? They are ninjas, they are suppose to ambush their opponents and exploit any possible weakness.
---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------
Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 and this is not even considering how many times he tricked Tayuya. So yeah, I don't know what's your definition of a good plan but I would consider those 3 to be great plans.
Nothing to see here. Just move on to the next round.
Well duh. That is what he is better than anyone at. That is how he wins his fights. No different than Batman.Quote:
I don't think Asuma would of ever mentioned Shikamaru as a Hokage candidate if he couldn't fight one-on-one at a high level.
Someone needs to read that fight again. The first one. Shikamaru figured out Hidan's justu the first time he faced him without any preptime. Someone who can think 10 moves ahead and go through over 200 scenarios in a second doesn't exactly rely on preparation. Hidan was BEAT and his head would have been used as a paperweight on Tsunade's desk. It was Kakuzu that saved Hidan.Quote:
Even if Shizune's attacks are unknown and Shikamaru fights alone, Shikamaru takes this. Mainly for the fact that Shikamaru is a genius but also because Shizune has failed to show anything remarkable. Her ranged attacks aren't all that special, a poison gas cloud and senbon attacks. Nothing that requires a genius intellect to avoid if they've seen it once.
Taijutsu is also unlikely to work since getting that close is a sure way to get yourself caught by Kagemane.
Shizune is an excellent medical ninja but none of those skills her in this fight. Shikamaru is smart enough to maneuver her into his attacks and once that happens its over for her.
Sigh, if I had one wish, it would be to erase the word "Genius" from Kishi's memory.
Anywho, while Shizune isn't anywhere near my favourite character list, I still think she's got this.
1. Shikamaru doesn't know she's a poisons expert (sure, I'll give it to him that he'll figure it out pretty early on)
2. Shikamaru is pretty weak overall, physically speaking (his chakra doesn't work for long)
3. Shizune is a medical ninja, and Tsunade herself states that requires a large amount of knowledge http://www.mangareader.net/93-241-3/...apter-236.html (don't know if this equates to intelligence, but generally speaking, absorbing large amounts of knowledge needs intelligence)
I'm not going to bring the rank difference into this (I don't think it holds any value), btw Shizune is a full Jonin.
Okay, so here's how they'd both fight:
Shizune, being perceptive, would fight from long range, and probably open with a nice poison mist.
Assuming Shikamaru gets out of that (I'd say 50/50 chance, it's a pretty big cloud), he'd keep his distance. However, that also weakens his jutsu
If he's hit by poison cloud, he's screwed.
Anyways, assuming he's not, he'd probably keep his distance and use the shadow binding shuriken technique, and associated trick that he used on Hidan/Kakuzu.
Okay, sure, if you saw my Shino vs Anko debate, you know I'm not a great fan of the databook stats. However, Shizune has a speed of 4/5, and she was able to keep Kabuto on edge in their first encounter, also, her intelligence is 4.5/5, and she is a Jonin (my point there is she has battle experience) so she'd probably be wary of Shikamarus' shadow techniques by that point in the battle (she'd probably try to bait the ability out of Shikamaru at the beginning of the battle, assuming she has no knowledge of his abilities).
After that, it would probably be a shuriken throwing match, but Shikamaru would run out after using the two chakra knives (we've never seen him imbue his chakra into normal shuriken), and Shizune would most likely hit him, since she's not using chakra when throwing knives, and he is (ie this would tire him out).
Even a true genius can't do anything against insurmountable odds.
I'll wait to see if there are any good counter points before I vote (not that my vote will really change much, just saying)
What? Don't make things up. He didn't beat Kin one-on-one. LOL wow. Did you even read what happened?Quote:
Also, what are you talking about? Shikamaru never beat Temari. Are you referring to some random fan-fiction?
I agree, you need to go back and read. Shikamaru figured it out...AS A SPECTATOR. Plus, even as the spectator, by the time Shikamaru figured it out, Asuma was already in too deep. The ritual started and he was f**ked. If you replace Asuma with Shikamaru, yea Shikamaru would figure it out...after Hidan gets his blood. You can't know Hidan needs blood UNTIL he gets your blood and uses it and if Shikamaru is one-on-one against him, he'd be going after Shikamaru, not Asuma.Quote:
Hidan was beat by a tag-team, not by Shikamaru. You seriously need to read again.
Temari didn't lose. You capture your opponent temporarily...you can't finish them off...and they will escape within 10 seconds...how is that a win now? LOL
Asuma was not in too deep since Shikamaru figured out how to counter Hidan's jutsu. Shikamaru maneuvered Hidan out of his circle with shadow sewing and Asuma cut his head off. At that point hidan was beaten and Asuma would of been fine. Shika had saved Asuma. Hidan can't do anything to you when he is just a head. But Kakuzu placed Hidan's head back on his body and he returned to the circle. Then Asuma was screwed.
Again, it is you that have to read those chapters. But I am sure you'll come back and tell me I am wrong.
And stop with the "LOL". It doesn't help your argument.
Last edited by Jessie; June 14, 2011 at 02:37 PM.
I would like to add to what Jessie and Shaunlim said concentrating on "winning" over Temari and current fight: remember, at that time Shikamaru hadn't got Kagenui - and from what we know, it works pretty well against weaklings <wow, even Hidan was pierced, but for the sake of this argument lets assume that chakra monsters cannot be affected by this>. Shizune isn't chakra monster, once Shika caughts her with his shadow, its the end for her. Why make it more complicated.
I have to go with shizune here. She has at her disposal experience, a number of weapons and medical ninjutsu. She is a jonnin for crying out loud. If shikamaru had a teammate he would have a chance but that is not the case. If shikamaru was an RPG character he would be a support caster. He could stun, provide distraction and an overall strategic advantage but if he were to meet face to face with an actual combat character he would get destroyed. Shikamaru is outclassed.
Shikamaru is one of my favorite characters, and he is an impressive ninja, but he has not really done much in the way of engaging in direct combat on his own that would make me think that he could take out a jounin-level ninja for whom he has had no prep time to plan out a strategy with no assistance.
Shizune from what little we have seen of her in combat seems to possess enough skills to beat Shikamaru. Besides medical ninjutsu, she is also skilled with poison. Given that in this tournament she is allowed common knowledge and thus would have some general idea of Shikamaru's shadow techniques given her knowledge of the Nara clan, she would be wary of this and account for his shadow techniques. (The common knowledge allowance does not really benefit Shikamaru in this fight since Shizune is not a famous ninja, but even if we were to assume he knew of her as Tsunade's apprentice and that she knew medical ninjutsu, there is no reason he should know anything about her poison techniques.)
It would take some effort on her part, but I think Shizune would end up winning.