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Translations: Bleach 595 (2)
I'm not going into this argument a sixth time, please reread my last post.Quote:
There's one really funny logical gap in all the 'prep' time arguments.
In the Konan vs Madara case, the situation was quite different -- Madara HAD to go to Konan. He needed something Konan had (information, in this case), and there was no way that Konan was going to go to Madara's stomping grounds. Now, that Kakashi guy... he is kind of smart. Even if Konan does prep some large amount of explosive tags and a trap for them, who is to say Kakashi goes to wherever Konan placed her traps? Or moreso, based on the rules of the tournament -- "8. All fights will happen in a neutral place, no contestant has any advantage or disadvantage over his/her opponent". I would take that to mean that Konan doesn't get to arrive a day early to lace the 'neutral place' with traps. The logistics of Konan's trap tags for Madara was just a completely different scenario.
I doubt Konan would be able to use her famed funijutsu on kakashi Rikudou king.That tec needs preparation
time if i'm not mistaken.And there's noway in hell that she would be given the time or space to prepare it...
just saying like.If i'm wrong,let me know?I'm gonna give this to kakashi.He has 1000 copied technique we've
not seen.But we know he has them.If we were to look at the shinobi that we've seen him fight and train with...
or just been in their company.It's safe to say that he'd have picked up a thing or two from Minato,Sarutobi, Danzo
hell even Orochimaru...Itachi the list is nearly endless.
The only concern would be his suspect stamina issue.But it seems he's able to manage his fatigue quite well
these days.Anyways,,he's grown a hell of alot better with his doujutsuAnd his intelligence is close to shikamaru
so i think he'd know what to do.With any ''paper attacks be it.Clones or whatnot...in all honsety.KAKASHI WIN.
@ White Silver King
I read your argument about Kakashi not having enough stamina to do what i just mentioned but like I said Kakashi can still suck up all her paper with Kamui. The only time he failed to hit his target was the first time we saw him use the technique on Deidara when he aimed for his heart but that was on high speed moving target while he was in motion. He had no problem warping Deidara's whole body later on when he blew his whole explosion into another dimension and he has shown precise control recently to use Kamui in instant to warp Sasuke's arrows. In a fight of this magnitude he will be at least able to use Kamui 2 times and that's all he needs in my opinion. Say in this scenario Konan goes to wrap Kakashi in her paper like she did to that foddler ninja during the pain asault. Even though Kakashi could genjutsu her from that close of a range say the Kakashi she rapped up is a raiton Kage bunshin and the hiding Kakashi comes out the ground and finishes her with Kamui right then and there. Even if she doesn't get slowed down by the raiton she will still be in one spot for Kakashi's counter.
Kakashi's Kamui works in a confined area, and Konan can spread herself into a wide area, so she would be able to avoid Kamui IMO.
Kamui would only work if Raitonbushin manages to stun her, but I doubt Konan would let the bushin get near her thanks to her long ranged attacks.
Also @DaHerio1: In your scenario, say that the raiton bunshin is wrapped by a paper clone, what happens then? Kakashi blows half of his chakra and is weakened while Konan wastes a measly clone.
IMO it's just as likely that Kakashi can pull a Raiton bunshin without Konan noticing as is Konan pulling a paper clone without Kakashi noticing.
All her paper being in one location is not common though. In order to fully neutralize Konan with Kamui he has to absorb all her paper at once, and with her body being all spilt up and used for attacks and defense all over the field the likelihood of that is very low. And as others are saying, she can merely move some paper in front of her and he'll Kamui that instead.Quote:
Last edited by White Silver King; June 23, 2011 at 10:59 AM.
Well, I waited and read other post, but I'm really not convinced that Kakashi can pull this out.
His Kamui is not going to work against her, since she can simply put stuff in front of her and Kakashi would suck those things instead of her.
She's flying, so she's going to be out of reach for a Raikiri, and Kakashi will be very busy trying to avoid all those paper bomb flying towards him.
I just can't see him win.
It's too bad, but the paper angel win this round.
Theirs a simple solution to your argument. Kakashi and Konan will start the fight standing face to face of course and right off the bat konan will reveal the style of her jutsu which is of course paper. Kakashi will know Kamui will be risky if he cant get most her at once so all Kakashi has to do is cut himself and get a some of his blood on konan's paper. Their r no wasted moves from Kakashi as he's always analyzing his advesaries. Kakashi nose has been stated to be as good as a part one kiba or Kakashi can summon his ninja dogs to keep tract of the Konan he marked jus like when he got zabuza through a thick fog of mist with his lightning blade. Even if its jus one piece thats all Kakashi needs as Konan will reform atleast a couple times in the fight. Also Kakashi has gotten clones off on the likes of pain and Itachi without them even noticing while we've only seen konan make a paper clone off panel but i all ready gave u my blood argument for kakashi to keep track of her. All kakashi needs is one opening for a clone or he could throw a smoke bomb to give him time.
@White Silver King
Konan would have to know what kamui is to put paper in front of herself to defend herself. She has never seen the jutsu and I may be wrong so correct me if theirs proof but when has she ever fought with a wall of paper in front of herself. Analyzing her style wont be the problem for Kakashi but waiting for the right opportunity to defeat it is the issue for Kakashi but he has shown to be a very patient and cunning shinobi. Also Kakashi can last a good while against some paper bombs which r also a risk for konan as in the madara fight he saved them both in the beginning as she has to mix them in with her own paper. Kakashi is also very durable and took a wind and fire combination from kakuzo on the chin and could still fight and many shinra tenseis from pain.
I would tend to believe that Kakashi would notice, after all he has Sharingan - Konan doesn't have it. There's always a difference when the fighter has or not has those special eyes xdOriginally Posted by hakuthehedgehog
I must give this to Kakashi.
His wide range of techniques give him the edge, IMO. Konan is primarily a raged fighter, but kakashi has shown good abilities dealing with ranged attacks. Konan also doesn't seem to have much stamina so a good attack ought to finish the job, and without the jutsu she pulled against Madara, I'm not sure she can finish him quickly enough.
If a piece of paper gets Kakashi's blood, it doesn't mean it's part of her real body, she can discard it.
And Konan can fully flod herself into paper, reaper as a paper clone, and Kakashi wouldn't notice because he would think it's the real one, or make one while the real one if behind a wall of paper.
About Kamui I don't see how Konan is supposed to know when to dodge it or protect herself against it at the right time. Since it's instant. Besides does she have to know about Kakashi's jutsu ? I know that Sharingan and Mangekyou Sharingan are part of widely known facts for the tournament, but Kakashi's MS power is really unique.
The rain hasn't been shown to harm...anyone. I find it hard to believe that Suiryuudan or Suijinheki would have no effect on her paper at all.Quote:
Already agreed on the point that he wouldn't do it until he feels it's necessary...but we've already seen that he can take a bit of punishment, and his chakra isn't really as bad as it was early on. He went from...4 Raikiri being the end of his chakra to being able to perform 4 Raikiri, still fighting, and being able to use Kamui as a last resort. Even looking at just Kamui...he went from one use of it taking him out for weeks to being able to use it after being in a pretty intense battle with Pain. He really doesn't have to use it more than once, and he doesn't have to get all of her paper in one shot. He essentially only has to get her head.Quote:
Again though, Shikamaru has tags and other tools on him at all times, to supplement his lack of actual combat ability. Kakashi has all sorts of tools as well, because it adds to his best assets; his versatility and strategic mind. I see your basic point, which is that using explosive tags doesn't require prep time in and of itself; my counterpoint is that it didn't seem like she just walked around with them with her, or else what is the reason for not using them on Jiraiya?Quote:
Agreed that it could be difficult to use genjutsu on a ranged combatant, but...that's sorta the point of kawarimi, raiton/suiton/kage bunshin, etc., and Kakashi, with the Sharingan, can read your seals and read ahead of your moves to a certain extent as well...it's pretty difficult to catch Kakashi with a bunshin without him also having a bunshin ready. Even Itachi didn't really catch him with a bunshin, it was more that he had to protect Kurenai.Quote:
It was bubbles...meant to get rid of the oil. It didn't seem to be a damaging attack in the first place, and I already said the rain hasn't been shown to damage anyone. I concede that it doesn't really matter where the attack is from though; it's hard to imagine a friendly Raikiri not resulting in an accidental kill, hahahaQuote:
Agreed that it's irrelevant, just stating it was a generic C-rank Katon. And it affected her paper.Quote:
He hit her with a generic Katon...she didn't take massive damage, but it served its purpose. And with water, the Raiton techs have a greater chance of harming her. He's also got defensive Earth techs to use when attacked, so even her sitting back and spamming her paper isn't really going to be effective, IMO.Quote:
She actually was harmed during the fight with Madara by her own explosions, and got stabbed with a rod or something after she couldn't maintain her paper tech. She seemed to have the chakra to do some other paper tech, but not enough to turn herself into paper again and get away from his grasp, so if she spends too much time attacking Kakashi (and really, the fact that it's difficult for Kakashi to attack her directly works to his advantage here, since she sorta has to press the issue if she wants to take him out, and he has ranged/defensive techs to use), and that runs out...it's pretty much GG there.Quote:
It's just really hard for me to see her outsmarting Kakashi to the point that he resorts to spamming Kamui and running out of chakra, lol
I could just be biased, since her paper never impressed me at all, and using explosive tags always seems lame, hahaha...it's like...if Lee can use explosive tags, then he basically can negate his lack of ninjutsu, since explosive tags seem broken in terms of damage. Even immortals like Hidan and Kakuzu were wary of getting hit by them, hahaha
Konan has plenty of explosive tags inside of her real body. There is no preparation needed for this. And you can't apply techniques that he hasn't shown. The only ones that are allowed are the ones that he has actually shown in the manga. besides, what defense is there against an explosion?
Other than Kakashi hiding in the dirt I completely forgot about his Suiryudan. That's powerful enough to knock Konan down and soak Konan enough that his raiton wolf would do significantly more damage. And while I can't prove it, the electric charge might make the bombs hidden amongst her explode.
Even if it doesn't, the combined force of a strong raiton and suiton should definately stun her enough that Kamui won't be avoided. And, once again, simply hiding in the dirt and digging deep enough down should keep him defended against her bombs. Stamina is Kakashi's biggest weakness, but he doesn't waste stamina if he's not using jutsu, but hiding.