Hmm, can Sharingan even see Sage Mode chakra? It can't see natural energy, most likely, but if it can't see the chakra then Sasuke may not be able to counter Frog Song.
He also never got into a life-or-death fight with Itachi...I'm actually wondering who in the world he fought, other than Hanzou. He's been traveling the world writing books and bullshitting for a while, lol. I don't think anyone thinks that Jiraiya is a chump that can't counter genjutsu, but...Tsukuyomi is pretty hard to counter without a Sharingan or a bijuu. Sasuke's isn't on the level of Itachi's at all, but it's still pretty much the ultimate genjutsu, no?Quote:
Again, matchups are everything...it's not that the Sharingan is unbeatable, it's that you need a specific skill-set to do so. In addition, apparently most of the Uchiha were nothing too special, even though we saw plenty with 3 tomoe Sharingan, seeing as how Itachi one-manned three of them pretty much instantly and took out the lot of them with just Madara. I don't think the Uchiha that Jiraiya encountered had MS, so it's apples and oranges, IMO...even as far as Kakashi goes, he doesn't have the same abilities that Sasuke does.Quote:
Even when Sasuke is underestimating his opponents, he's fighting with sense. He didn't think Deidara would be that strong, but he put on a clinic in that fight. And that was with his opponent having trained specifically to fight a Sharingan user. Considering he's not coming at Jiraiya as part of his quest for vengeance, I don't see how we can act as if Sasuke's going to blindly run in, let Jiraiya enter Sennin Mode, and lose, simply because he doesn't have the same level of experience...Danzou had more experience than Jiraiya, yet we saw how that ended up, even with an ability as broken as Izanagi and the ability to use it 10 times.Quote:
Also, Pain's summons never were used to block Amaterasu...that's a pretty rough attack to defend with a summon, I would think. Pain was also able to perceive all attacks in his vicinity due to the Rinnegan, so he couldn't really be taken by surprised if any of his bodies could see it. And that's not even considering the arrows from Susanoo. In addition, Sasuke wields Raiton techs, so he outclasses Jiraiya's Doton techs, and I can't see Jiraiya's fire techs beating Amaterasu.
Um...the difference is that Sasuke can activate Susanoo instantly, whereas Jiraiya has to gather chakra to summon Ma and Pa to enter SM. I'm curious about these multiple ways of binding someone that has Amaterasu, Chidori variants, and Susanoo, though.Quote:
I think it gets a lot easier if Jiraiya can get rid of Susanoo, but I don't think he beats Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu. Jiraiya beats Sasuke without MS, though.Quote:
Edit: I would also imagine that Amaterasu or Chidori Nagashi give Sasuke a decent out to Yomi Numa...I don't think Jiraiya is trapping Sasuke with that (especially since he'll know it's a Doton tech) for that long at all.
Last edited by UchihaHunter; June 23, 2011 at 01:10 AM.
Originally Posted by Naruto_Rasengan
Both Sasuke and Jiraiya have the same speed stat, but Sasuke has the Sharingan, which makes the similar speed inconsequential. Because Sasuke can predict his movements he will always be a step ahead of him.
Originally Posted by Naruto_Rasengan
Pein also made sure to keep half his bodies out of the fight. Once he pulled out the other half it was all downhill from there, so Jiraiya's feats against Pein was based off of a handicap. Not to mention Jiraiya was able to pull off Sage Mode againt Pein thanks to fleeing from him on Ken. Sasuke however can paralyze or control any of Jiraiya's summons with his Sharingan. Likewise, double check the rules of the tournament. No one has prior knowledge over anyone at all. Meaning he has no idea of the Mangekyou Sharingan or it's abilities. He does however know of the Sharingan, and it's well-known abilities, but that's it.
Originally Posted by Naruto_Rasengan
Do you know how many times ninja have been defeated by ninja far beneath them in the experience level? Experience counts for little against overwhelming power. Sasuke not only has overwhelming power (against base Jiraiya), but nearly all of his strongest attacks are almost unavoidable guaranteeing they connect. Same can't be said for Jiraiya.
Originally Posted by Naruto_Rasengan
Tsukiyomi is easier to hit Jiraiya with as all it takes is eye contact. But since Sasuke can use his MS jutsu while protected by Susanoo it doesn't matter. I'm still not seeing any realistic defense against Sasuke's Genjutsu so him needing to rely on Susanoo for anything but blocking the occasional attack to be honest.
I seriously don't see Susanoo being required much, if at all.Originally Posted by Naruto_Rasengan
Last edited by ninjabot; June 23, 2011 at 01:59 AM.
The same way he did against Pain: by using summons to help him, of course.Originally Posted by ninjabot
ObsessionOriginally Posted by ninjabot
Ah, if it was that simple, haha xD Actually I wanted to write that if it was against Hebi Sasuke or pre-MS Sasuke, Ji-man would nicely win this. But for what purpose write this when its not the case, eh xdOriginally Posted by UchihaHunter
The sealing takes time.? but for me, it seem it is just a second to wrote those seals.. And does the amaterasu can burn instantly the hair mane jutsu of jiraiya.? a hair as strong as metal.? does the amaterasu has the power to burn a metal.? i never seen that in the manga..
And does sasuke's susanoo arrows can pass through on jiraiya's hair mane jutsu.? i don't think so.. it was barely pass through on the bridge, so how come it can affect on metal.?
Jiraiya's weakness is genjutsu.? really.? but the manga never shown that he caught by any genjutsu.. and he just stated that he wasn't a genjutsu type of ninja, but it doesn't mean that he was useless/helpless against genjutsu..
---------- Post added at 04:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------
PS. Before you say i am a Sasuke fanboy or JMan hater i whant you to know that i absolutly love JMan and i almost stoped reading the manga when he died.
PPS. On the fact that you belive it can't burn metal. The databook states it burns with the temperature of the damn Sun and the Manga showed it can burn fire, a toad belly that breaths fire itself, a huge Biju, a damn concrete wall. Even if we asume it could hold (the hair) there is no way JMan would put it up in time considering you need max level of Raiton Armour Raikage to dodge it or take any action.
PPPS. The manga does not need to show JMan not able to take genjutsu to prove he can't. The manga needs to show him overpowering genjutsu before he can. No feats for JMan in genjutsu = he is realy bad at it.
Last edited by xXan; June 23, 2011 at 04:56 AM.
Actually, Shii was able to tell that Sasuke was about to use the MS, so Jiraya could do the same and use the Hair mane no jutsu: Sure, it would burn through it, but in conjunction with a katon he could stop it.
And Jiraya himself explained just because you aren't adept at genjutsu, it doesn't mean you can counter it.
Also, Sasuke putting a frog in a genjutsu is easily counterable by Jiraya if he's riding them: he can just disrupt their chakra and break the genjutsu.
Last edited by hakuthehedgehog; June 23, 2011 at 05:55 AM.
Shi had info on amaterasu and knew Sasuke has it. JMan does not.
Also they figured out Amaterasu was going to be used at any time because of his eyes:
JMan does not know MS or what abilities Sasuke has so its completly irrelevant. Even if we asume JMan is going to magicaly find out Amaterasu is coming what is he going to do? Cover himself in hair? Amaterasu would cover him completly and even he needs air or he will die. The high temperature will turn that iron hair in a damn cooking pot.
Now considering Sasuke put Danzo in genjutsu and Bee i see nothing that would prove it would not work on JMan.
Last edited by xXan; June 23, 2011 at 06:52 AM.
Well, as usual, the best way to see how this can go is to answer those questions:
- Can Jiraiya do something against Tsukiyomi?
As far as we know, Jiraiya is not really good with genjutsu. I get the feeling that he's not foolish enough to look directly in the eyes of an Uchiha, but really, he would be in a big disadvantage against it.
Although, he knows how to get away from a genjutsu (since he taught Naruto), and Sasuke's Tsukiyomi is way way inferior to Itachi's.
- Can Jiraiya do something against Amaterasu?
Let's just be honest here, Jiraiya, even in Sage Mode is not quick enough to evade a Amaterasu only by running.
(Don't include the example of Sasuke running to avoid Itachi's. We all know Itachi was not fighting 100% here, and didn't even wanted to kill him!)
And, I can't see anything that he could put in front of him that would take the damage instead of him.
- Can Jiraiya do something against Susanoo?
Jiraiya might be able to deal a blow that would go through Susanno, with his ultimate rasengan, but that's about it.
I don't think he's quick enough to avoid the arrow neither.
To sum it up, even if Jiraiya is my favorite character and that I like the guy... my opinion is that he would probably lose against Sasuke right now.
No, not off the bat. He will start with Susano like vs that Hoke babe, Gaara, Danzou and Kakashi. 1 arrow would be enough to kill JMan as he never showed speed above Kakashi (in normal mode) but let's say he dodges it, the next time is amaterasu to the face. Same thing he has done vs Danzo. Sasuke entire fighting style is based on hate an revange, its irrelevant who he is fighting against.Quote:
Sasuke is already spaming MS like crazy and now with EMS there is no reason to fear not using them as his eyes are not going to fail.
1-He will never have the time to put it up unless you can post evidence from JMan having speed on Raikage+raiton armour. Also JMan would not even know what it is to form any defence vs it.Quote:
2-He can't do hand seals and remove his scroll from the back when he is covered in that hair as it is close to his body. The hair would also burn close to instantly if Sasuke is focusing on it. He already burned crep that was design to rezist fire in or close to a second.
The first step here is to prove JMan has Raiton Raikage level of reflexes as if you can't the rest is irrelevant.
No, its not 50/50 its 0/100. Show me him taking 1 genjutsu. Naruto learned from him and got completly owned by Itachi.Quote:
Now also prove to me he is better at it then Danzo or Bee.
This is a mistake that i keep seeing around here. In that instance Itachi used the already used flames of Amaterasu that where around(casted before to stop Sasuke's fireball and that was casted at a distance from Sasuke) to chase Sasuke down. Sasuke never dodged or run away from a amaterasu that formed in his face.Quote:
Last edited by xXan; June 23, 2011 at 09:23 AM.
Based on the arguments I've seen, I have to go with the Uchiha.