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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
Honestly people putting to much stock into Sasuke's MS techs amaterasu is good but avoidable Pervy Sage is not as fast as Raikage but he can still dodge it remember sasuke was dodging amaterasu for a while until he let itachi hit him with it to set him up for the flame attack that led into kirin, but anyways Susanoo can be beatin Raikage was strong enough to hurt sasuke while he was wrapped in sage mode can take care of that also i believe that flaming swamp thingy pervy sage and ma and pa did can hurt him while in that mode and sasukes tsukuyomi aint that good because danzo broke free of it and im sure ma and pa can disrupt Pervy sages chakra network for him to get out of it. Besides sasukes ms tech his other ninjutsus cant compete with the pervy sages.
I don't think it's as easy as some people are saying, but Sasuke wins this...Amaterasu and Susanoo are just too ridiculous...and the fact that he can cover Susanoo with Amaterasu...and what exactly does Jiraiya do against the arrows of Susanoo (that Kakashi couldn't dodge)? The fact that Jiraiya needs time to enter his special combat mode also doesn't bode well...Sasuke is prone to trying to end fights quickly, lol
Damn Jiraiya could beat probally defeat 95% of ninja but Sasuke is to much for him. Every jutsu jiraiya has that i can think of can be countered by Sasuke. Jiraiyas summons will either be sliced with childori sword, genjutsued, or lit on fire with amaterasu. His earth element is beaten by Sasuke's raiton and his katon can be devoured by amaterasu. His hair needles will be grabbed by susuano, and his toad stomach can be opened with amaterasu which was shown by itachi or cut with childori. I don't even think Jiraiya would have the chance to get into sage mode against Sasuke on an open space battle field as he has to summon the elder frogs but he has to hold his hands together and cant perform any jutsu. He would be a sitting duck against sasuke. If he uses frog song Sasuke could just use susano and counter it. If they fight in cqc Sasuke can grab him with susano and i think Sasuke is faster then him to but not exactly sure.
I didn't even mention genjutsu but all signs point to Jiraiyas defeat. It's sad as experience means nothing infront of ms. The only ninja who can compete at this point against sasuke are speed demons, and jins, or other skilled uchiha and rinnegan.
Last edited by DaHeroic1; June 22, 2011 at 07:03 PM.
i go with jiriaya i think his summonings can take on sussano and with sage mode and man and pa he can use his genjutsu to kill sasuke. since it is sound base and not visual the sharingans should not see through it.
Whhaattt..? sasuke can beat jiraiya..? no way in hell..
jiraiya can win this one with ease..
Itachi never opened the toad stomach of jiraiya, it was the window before it transform into toad flesh..
Well, the only chance of sasuke is not letting jiraiya to get into sage mode, but it's impossible for sasuke to do that.. jiraiya has so many jutsu in his arsenal.. I doubt sasuke can do a thing against jiraiya's swamp to the underworld.. and when jiraiya summon ma ang pa, then sasuke will be good as dead..
Jiraiya would need time to summon Ma and Pa, something that Sasuke won't give him. Jiraiya is a bad matchup for Sasuke because Jiraiya isn't as good in breaking out of genjutsu (he was vague in this though). He can't do genjutsu without Ma and Pa and without going into hiding since it could take them both time to synchronize perfectly.
Sasuke's Tsukuyomi was obvious, and unlike Jiraiya Danzou never said he was bad at genjutsu. Jiraiya has no defense against Amaterasu, just as Raikage didn't. Unlike Raikage, Jiraiya does not have the reflex or the speed to avoid Amaterasu either. Using his hair as shield won't work because Sasuke can burn through the hair.
How can his other jutsu not compete with Jiraiya? If both of their katon jutsu are at equal power, then whoever pumps in most chakra will win, I think. Sasuke's elemental affinity is raiton, which overpowers Jiraiya's doton, and he has chidori, which can pierce through Jiraiya's defense. If Sasuke does, by any chance, get kirin to work, I can't see how Jiraiya can dodge that. Maybe he could survive it if he was in Sage Mode but in base mode, he's a goner. Main advantage Jiraiya has is that he can pop out rasengan any time and has many jutsu under his arsenal, but unless he goes all out in the beginning, he's not gonna have an easy time.
Even if Sasuke is trapped in the frog's stomach, he can just as easily bust out using Amaterasu like Itachi did. Major challenge here would be swamp of the underworld, but that could be negated with raiton as well.
Oh, and I like Jiraiya, I dislike Sasuke. Jiraiya's on my top five favorite list, so this is in no way biased. It's how I see this situation, sadly, and I think of possible ways for Jiraiya to win, but it's hard because many of his powerful attacks are doton, which can be overpowered with Sasuke's raiton. Sasuke's also more versatile, being able to do taijutsu, ninjutsu, and genjutsu as well as have speed and be proficient with swords. His Sharingan is also a major tool here, as well as Mangekyo. Jiraiya is very good at taijutsu and ninjutsu, but his elemental affinity is a bad matchup against Sasuke. By Jiraiya's own words he's not good at genjutsu, so without Ma and Pa, he can't cast genjutsu. Getting out of genjutsu, in my opinion, is different, but it's also likely he may need help to get out of genjutsu like Tsukuyomi.
shame because I think Jiraiya > Orochimaru, latter whom was beaten by Sasuke utterly just because of genjutsu in his weakened state.
Oh, and manga fact, JIRAIYA himself, states he's no good at genjutsu, so this cannot be refuted or denied in any way.
Originally Posted by bhasty
Yes! This is what I was waiting for all day. Someone that not only thinks Jiraiya can win, but easily. Thanks for that.
No it wasn't. The toad stomach couldn't close up that hole because Amaterasu had burned away that area and it couldn't form over the flames that were still there. If it couldn't overwhelm the flames how the heck is it gonna keep Amaterasu from burning straight through it?Originally Posted by bhasty
And where in the hell did you hear that Amaterasu didn't burn that hole there?
Impossible? How many of those jutsu actually can overcome anything in Sasuke's repertoire? How does he hit him? He can't fall on the swamp if he's flying, he can't get hit with Jiraiya's katon thanks to Amaterasu, he can't be attacked by a giant summon because Sasuke can take control of it, and he can't reach Sage Mode because he can't get away from Sasuke long enough to gather the energy. And if Jiraiya ever managed to get Ma and Pa summoned he's still good because all 3 of them are connected to Jiraiya, and hitting him with Amaterasu means that both of them burn aswell. Unless ofcourse they unfuse from him, which would only stop his Sage Mode and guarantee he dies even faster.Originally Posted by bhasty
Sigh J-man is going to be out of this tournament
Sasuke wins without a doubt. Seeing how he utilized all his abilites in the Kage Summit arc is just enough for me. Being able to proficiently use all his sharingan techniques. This fight will be a difficult one but still I think Sasuke will surely be determined as the winner.
I really hope lurkers don't vote for J-man more just because they like him more. I think it's obvious that Sasuke wins this one.
If jiraiya can manage to summon pa and pa and sasuke will be good as dead.. One frog song and sasuke can't move, and then what.? jiraiya will going to make him a frog.. and we seen that the hermit mode jiraiya can do a kage bunshin, so you can't assume that it was the original who got caught by sasuke's amaterasu..
That's not true, because he could've used a regular jutsu (or just jumped, lmao) through the window if all they did was burn the window open with Amaterasu. Amaterasu would not have been needed. On top of that, look here:
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v17/c148/4.html This tiny window... it allready has toad stomach at the bottom and top. It was already getting covered up.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v17/c148/6.html "The wall of flesh was surely torn apart by them." Jiraiya acknowledges it.
http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v17/c148/7.html http://www.mangafox.com/manga/naruto/v17/c148/9.htmlThe whole damn wall nearly is missing! And I'm supposed to believe it was just the window that got blown through?
He doesn't have to know he can do them, because as he's doing them he'll see his handseals knowing full well that a jutsu is on it's way. he'll know whether it's a katon or a doton coming based on the handseal, and he can counter accordingly. Sasuke's also going for the kill in this fight meaning he can pressure him as much as he sees fit. Also, Jiraiya doesn't know of Sasuke's repertoire so that goes two ways.Originally Posted by bhasty
And did you just say that Jiraiya can protect himself from Amaterasu with HAIR!? And seal it away while his hair is ON FIRE!? Do you even know how he seals fire away? He has to pull out a scroll, sit down and write the damn sealing scripture, then perform the jutsu. You're implying he's got time to do all that while his scalp is being devoured by the flames of hell.
Originally Posted by bhasty
Fortunately for Sasuke it takes Jiraiya a million years to activate Sage Mode, and Sasuke has no prep time for any of his strongest jutsu except Kirin. Likewise, Sasuke can use his Genjutsu the exact same way that ninja use bunshin, by tricking them into useing their strongest attacks on an illusion. Yeah, Sasuke wins quite comfortably.
When two Kage level Shinobi go head to head we all know one doesn't just walk away that easily. So I'm going to argue Jiraiya's case a little even if he may not win.
People are under the assumption that Sasuke is faster than Jiraiya in his base, when it was never stated Jiraiya was slow. Genjutsu may be Jiraiya's weak point but that doesn't mean he can't defend against it. Using Genjutsu and countering it are not the same thing. Jiraiya isn't just some chump without experience, the man has the most impressive mission completion record of everyone to date. It was said that he only came close to death twice in his life, both against allies, that must say something about his ability.
Pain was above Sasuke's current level, and Jiraiya pushed him to the end. I think Jiraiya is highly underrated in this fight just because it's Sasuke and he has the Sharingan. It's a common misconception that Sharingan is the almighty undefeatable, as we've seen multiple Shinobi with the ability to fight against it, and I believe Jiraiya is one of these Shinobi. Having grown up in an Era of War where Uchiha were still a part of Konoha, and knowing Hatake Kakashi, I'm sure he knows full well the extent of it's abilities.
Jiraiya is not one to underestimate his opponent, unlike Sasuke, so I think his experience and level head will be to his advantage in this battle. He has multiple jutsu to counter Amaterasu, including Kuchiyose no jutsu. For those of you who think he couldn't use his vast summoning skill to block Sasuke's jutsu this is absurd as we have seen Pain use summons to counter in situations where it would otherwise be impossible to counter an attack. Along with the rest of his vast arsenal of jutsu and sealing abilities I think Jiraiya could potentially defeat Sasuke.
If Sasuke uses Susanoo' right away there is no reason Jiraiya shouldn't use Sennin Mode. Jiraiya does have multiple ways of binding Sasuke in order to bide time for the transformation. As far as I'm concerned Susanoo' is the biggest threat, more so then Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, to Jiraiya in this fight due to it's speed - Although this may not be as big an issue for Jiraiya in SM it's just a matter of getting into it quicker than Sasuke can blindly rage about Itachi.
Anyway, if there is a way for Jiraiya to beat Susanoo' I have no doubt he would defeat Sasuke.
Last edited by Naruto_Rasengan; June 23, 2011 at 01:39 AM. Reason: spelling XD
Please tell me how will Pa and Ma kill Sasuke...because even if it i obvious to you, it's not that obvious for me...not even mentioning that escaping swamp of The Underworld should be easy, thanks to Susanoo, who can just pull him out...
His only option against the swamp is avoid it completely using his hawks.
Even Jiraiya is puzzled by how did they escape, and he gathers the fire for analysis...because that's how they escaped...if there would've been a window there Itachi would've kicked it don't you think?
The thing is that Sasuke as all Uchiha has a sharingan...and that will see through the genjutsu, maybe even reverse it, although I think that's impossible without sage chakra, but still...Quote:
Also the sealing of the fire takes time you know, and in the meantime Sasuke can just give him another shot of Amaterasu, or a Susanoo arrow...
Not to mention that even if it's not as strong as Itachi's, Sasuke still has genjutsu, and that is Jiraiya's weakness, so creating a nice opening via genjutsu is not out of the question...
And he will do all these things while sitting in Susanoo, so Jiraiya won't be able to counter, while he gets these blows...so yeah...