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Translations: Bleach 600 (2)
every fight sasuke is involved in leads to lolz ms spam hur hur sasuke wins kkthxbai. I guess Jiraiya being able to seal amaretsu doesnt mean anything then. If jiraiya knows about the rinningan then im sure coming from konoha he would know about the sharingan's capabilities.
If he manages to get into sagemode then the fusion should prevent him being affected by genjutsu, and if the frog song works on the most noble dojutsu i'm pretty sure it will work on a sharingan. I voted on the j man just because once he is in sage mode he is: faster, stronger, smarter, more experienced, has better ninjutsu, and taijutsu.
is it just me or didn't pain say that if Jiraiya knew the secret of the 6 paths he would probably lose. But i'm sure a lot of fans here would think sasuke could MS spam his way to negato despite chibaku tensei and ghost realm.
I agree with you. It seems no matter the caliber of the opponent Saskue will win. To me in the Danzou fight he would have lost if Madara and Karin weren't there. (even if he had full chakra)
I just read over some of Jiraiya's fights. It seems that people are forgetting his jutsus and intelligence. He could start out by using the mud swamp jutsu to capture sasuke quite easily and use a combo of oil and fire with Bunta. (Saskue's Susano can not block all attacks like Itachi's cause he doesn't have the special items)
J man could use his frog silhouette move and take control of saskue and have him off himself.
I saw somewhere that Saskue could put bunta under gen but doesn't saskue have to look into his eye to do that. Bunta is like 50 feet tall. Even if he does J-Man could summon the other toads and create enough time to go into sage mode.
Not necessarily true since he can move about before using to make it more confusing and etc. Even Kakashi who was chakraless made a bunch of KBs so I'm inclined to think that Jiraiya with his capacity can safely make quite a few at once. Raikage suspected an attack when Sasuke turned on his MS, so Jiraiya can very well prepare a defense of sorts as well via KBs. It's a possibility. Heck, if he gets close enough, he can even hide in Sasuke's Shadow.
Naruto was reverse summoned to the mountain and when the summoning was canceled, Naruto returned. So it won't be a BFR win for Sasuke.
And once again, Jiraiya sealed Amaterasu when there was no enemy around. Itachi and Kisame were long gone so Jiraiya could afford the time to seal Amaterasu, and he was never hit with Amaterasu. Though, if he was, then one way to avoid "oneshot" would be to move around and make it hard for Sasuke to focus on where he shot the Amaterasu.
Frog Song will most likely work on Sasuke, doujutsu has nothing to do with it. I think Frog Song is the only sound-based genjutsu we've seen, the rest were most likely just ocular, doujutsu-related or not. However, Sasuke would probably find and strike Jiraiya before Frog Song was perfected and used. Nagato came close but because Jiraiya was hiding, he couldn't get in time.
Can Ma and Pa detect or do anything about Jiraiya's chakra? I forgot, but if they can't, then Jiraiya won't have any help apart from his own ability to break out of genjutsu, which is at the very least decent.
And once again, like I said, Jiraiya's on my top five favorites while Sasuke isn't even on my top ten. There is no such thing as biased here, it's just a weak argument for people that can't come up with a good explanation why they think what they do. :\
Regardless of what he knows in story, I'm pretty sure the rules state that the characters don't have knowledge of their opponent. And considering that Jiraiya didn't know about Amaterasu until Itachi used it on him, I don't see why we're assuming he knows about the MS.
He has to get into Sage Mode in the first place, which has been shown to take time. Also, the Rinnegan was never stated to be able to do anything about Genjutsu, while the Sharingan has explicitly been stated to perceive and counter Genjutsu. "Most noble doujutsu" or not, it's not invulnerable.Quote:
We aren't arguing Sasuke vs. Nagato, this is Sasuke vs. Jiraiya. In addition, the skill sets of Jiraiya and Sasuke are pretty different. Even Pain would have trouble dealing with Susanoo and Tsukuyomi. I'm actually not sure who would win between Sasuke and Pain though, especially since Sasuke has been shown to be quite good with analysis.Quote:
Yomi Numa worked on Pain because he didn't see it coming. Yomi Numa hasn't been seen working on any ninja outside of a surprise capacity, no? And he's fighting against someone that can read his seals, see it's an Earth tech, and can counter with Chidori Nagashi or even Amaterasu, IMO. Of course, that's just my opinion, I don't think we've seen someone escape from Yomi Numa.Quote:
Bunta can be controlled by Genjutsu as well, and even if he didn't do that, why not counter size with size? Do you think Bunta can dodge an arrow from Susanoo? Also, regarding the blocking of techniques, even while incomplete it still blocked Gaara's sand, Kankurou and Temari's attacks, as well as Darui's Storm Element Laser Circus. Its defensive skills protected Sasuke from a tech that was said to be pretty much a sureshot OHKO (Raikage's Liger Bomb). Even when Danzou was able to pierce it with a combo of high-level wind techniques and the suction of a summon larger than the Susanoo, it still didn't actually hit Sasuke.
Lol then why not do that against one of the Pain summons? It didn't seem like a technique he could use against high-level ninja, but of course that's also an assumption. The fact remains though that he only used that on a fodder ninja.Quote:
Um...how tall do you think Manda is? Obviously size isn't an issue, and once he has Bunta under his control, he can use him to attack Jiraiya.Quote:
Yea, that initial Tsukuyomi on Danzou was weird...I guess it was just to show us how crappy Sasuke's is compared to Itachi's, lol...at the same time though, a subtle genjutsu can be almost as effective as a hax one, as long as you don't know you're being manipulated (ask Mifune and anyone else that experienced Shisui's)Quote:
Agreed on the swamp summon, although, again, Sasuke would see Doton seals and probably prepare Raiton to counter. His seal speed definitely isn't on Itachi's level. Agreed on the arrow spam, that definitely never happened. I dunno if I can agree on the hair changing the trajectory though, a tree is pretty large and different from the hair we saw Jiraya use...again though, these are pretty fast attacks for him to have to dodge while attempting to get into Sage Mode. And he still has to avoid Tsukuyomi.Quote:
Anyway, like I said before, it's not a curbstomp battle, but it's hard for me to see Jiraiya holding off Sasuke long enough to enter Sage Mode. This isn't even considering the Chidori techs that Sasuke has, most of which aren't negligible, and he still needs a counter for Tsukuyomi, which I don't think he has if his frogs can be Genjutsu'd a la Manda. Even if he did enter Sage Mode, I still don't see his attacks getting through Susanoo, nor do I see him surviving Amaterasu or the inevitable Kirin that results from Amaterasu just burning on the battlefield.
So, before the flesh was closing in to the window, itachi use his amaterasu to make a hole. and then the amaterasu burn some of the flesh..
im pretty sure sasuke was disagreeing with you.. now do your thing... f
...why would Sasuke need Karin to let him specifically know where the attacks are coming from when...
A. The Sharingan can see chakra.
B. He's already stated he can perceive Bee's movements.
C. He didn't ask her to do it until Bee attacked the rest of the team.
Funny that you choose to ignore Jiraiya's exact words regarding what Itachi did, but you take part of Sasuke's words as overriding what he had just said...but have fun with that, I'm sure you're convincing someone somewhere, lol
Edit: Also, I dunno about anyone else, but I've never claimed that the flames engulfed ALL of the stomach flesh...it doesn't make sense to say so, seeing as how the rest of the stomach wasn't on fire. So...you're conceding that the flesh was burned...wtf are you even arguing at this point?
I know which is why I said the subtle use is the way to win it via Tsukiyomi but I definitely do not see Jiraiya rolling in his grave from a single Tsukiyomi which haven't shown to do much damage at all.
Since Sasuke doesn't know what type of jutsu is coming, he would still have to wait for it to hit him first(in a sense not literally)to be able to successfully counter it. Well the hair have shown to grown long enough to strangle the entire giant crab so I can see it make a wall of sort and since it is supposedly harder than a tree it might just change the trajectory.
Honestly though, I see Jiraiya being able to handle those just fine since he does have the techniques to work around those stuff but I just can't see him doing it successfully too many times as Sasuke is bound to catch on sooner or later.
What would be the point of saying Kakashi style if it was just a regular KB though?
Also, Sasuke's got decent genjutsu even without the MS...I dunno, it's just really difficult for me to see Jiraiya winning more times than he loses. Basically, his best killing moves would be the Rasengan variants, and Sasuke's got Susanoo.
Kakashi is a KB user:
I'm not saying he doesn't but chances are he's going to win via a subtle genjutsu as opposed to his genjutsu knocking out his opponents like Itachi's Tsukiyomi. That doesn't mean he can't win it. It's all about how he uses them.
...I wasn't saying that he didn't know Kage Bunshin, we already knew that...I'm just curious as to why it said Kakashi style when he had the massive number, instead of Tajuu Kage Bunshin or just regular Kage Bunshin. What is the difference?
I am not convinced that Sasuke's MS arsenal is able to seal this for him:
- Susanoo could likely be opened up by Sage Mode Oodama Rasengan.
- Amaterasu can be avoided by maintaining a decent distance.
- Sasuke's genjutsu is weak and Jiraiya knows how to break out of genjutsu.
I doubt Sasuke's chidori could outdo Jiraiya's rasengan in a clash (it is possible that it ends as a tie if the two clash, but I'd like to think Jiraiya's ordinary rasengan tops Naruto's, but you never know).
All in all, I have not voted yet. I think it is a close match though.
If we can guess from what Naruto said when he hit Sasuke with a rasengan to test something at Valley of the End, then it's likely chidori is weaker than rasengan. Since Jiraiya could be considered more of an expert in rasengan than Naruto, it's likely his rasengan will overpower Sasuke's chidori.
I'm also confident that Jiraiya would be able to break out of Sasuke's Tsukuyomi even if he wasn't good at dispelling genjutsu, since he has the basics down and the chakra to do so. Susano'o is a major problem since if it launches its arrow, it'll be too fast for Jiraiya unless possibly he's in Sage Mode. Base mode Jiraiya never showed Kakashi's speed, who needed to warp away the arrows. It'd take Minato, Raikage, or Rikudou Mode Naruto to even be fast enough to get out of range.