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Translations: Gintama 507 (2)
I am starting to belive you just keep ignoring what i state to you:Quote:
What JMan needs to do to even START growing the hair before Amaterasu hits him. He needs to replicate Raikage feat in:
Raikage knew Amaterasu was coming before it happened and so he can dodge it he activate the max level of his Raiton armour that increases his reacting times to insane levels. Now you can post in your next reply how JMan has that level of reflexes to even START extending his hair K?
Then what you need to prove before the hair can cover him.
Raikage only had to move 1m to the left. The hair needs to grow and cover a man that has some 2 meters. That would probably be 6m to cover JMan on all sides. So you would need to prove (with link, stating with no link is irrelevant) that JMan's hair is some 6x times faster then raikage.
First off read the Tournament rules and second try to set yourself on fire completly and then do you homework or write a paper when you are engulfed in flames because that is what you are sugesting JMan is going to do.Quote:
Great not if only you can prove JMan can enter Sage Mode when Sasuke can kill him with arrows before that happends (JMan in base form does not have better speed feats then Kakashi and Kakashi had to use Kamui to save his but) or 1 shot him with Amaterasu.Quote:
Ty for the link.Quote:
Problem is JMan is not going to be in sage mode here like in that link to have insane speed and 2 frogs on his shoulder and here he is not going to have the advantage of pipes and coridors where he can lose line of sight. Also Raikage had completle information on Sasuke, in this case JMan has no idea when Amaterasu is coming, what is that or if Sasuke has it. He just knows that a uchiha can have MS, no detailed information on Sasuke.
He was incapacitated. That was clear enough by the rods in Bee's body. Danzo was able to brake out of the first one because he had that seal on Sasuke. Now nobody is saying he could keep him there indefenetly but for another 1-2 cm's so Sasuke sword would get and decapitate Danzou's neck would be a defenetly.
Kakashi had no time to move, make hand seals or anything before that Amaterasu was loaded and fire. Kakashi was forced to use Kamui something that is instant. Also if we asume that the hair is faster then Kamui (makes no sense) JMan would need to stop summoning the swamp and defened with the hair and Sasuke would just fire another and another and then finish it with some Amaterasu.Quote:
ROFL forgot about that 1. It makes you wonder why JMan never done this in actualy combat no?:P Even to save his live vs Pein. Anyway JMan would at least need to summon a frog, instruct it and then send it back to the mountain to do the trick. At least Kishi is somewhat disagreeing with you on this even if its plot no jutsu :PQuote:
Also how is JMan going to keep track of his target because Sasuke can just leave the battlefield in those 5 mins or whatever it takes to get back to the fight? If he leaves the battlefield Sasuke would just leave the area as his opponent is gone. Now JMan needs to find him again and its close to imposible (this is one of the reasons he run away from Pein). This tactic would end up in a draw and a draw is not allowed in the Tournament.
Anywhay i have to go now ty for the links.
Last edited by xXan; June 25, 2011 at 01:30 AM.
Well, even if we assume Bee was incapacitated by Sasuke's Tsukuyomi, so was Sasuke, thus the result of his entire body being torn open with a lariat while he was nursing his eye. Bee recovered faster than Sasuke did.
---------- Post added at 02:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:41 AM ----------
As for getting into sage mode, Jiraiya can use toads and the lands themselves to help buy time (dodging through trees, if there are any). Also, if there is decent body of water around, he likely won't have any trouble at all getting into sage mode.
2. Does distance affect the speed of the jutsu? Honestly I feel it would be more dangerous if Jiraiya got too far away because he would not see Sasuke's eye bleed, nor would he be able to see his pupils dilate. Those 2 things let you know that the jutsu is coming.
3. No. His Tsukuyomi sucks, but his genjutsu in general is one of his most deadly assets. He pwned Orochimaru, Danzo, and C with basic Sharigan genjutsu. Orochimaru is more proficient than J-Man at genjutsu and he was still rendered defenseless.
Ha,i think i've just seen the best relevent question posed...that would give Jiraiya a certain win here..lol.It's by Ryokahn
What shape are sasuke eyes at?Currently his eyes are still bandaged...i found that quite funny tbh.What's the
ruling on this mods?
Anyway back to all seriousness.I ticked a whole bunch of likes to a few different posters for what they've raised.
One thing i've noticed is that apart from bhasty,no one seems to be taking jiraiya tactical knowledge into account.
Overwhelming power can be other comed by the olde brain power...maybe not all the time,and this maybe one of
those times.Still i said i'd look at how the argument were going before i cast by vote.Ninjabot as always argue his
Still on a level playing field with shinobi using all of their arsenal.Simple tricks are used to gain insight to counter the
opponent move and gain some insight and a TACTICAL adavantage..So here just one i'll raise.
Smoke bomb?This will enable jiraiya to conseal his hand sign and prevent the sharingan from seeing his seal...We've
already seen Jiraiya do something like this against Pain when he worked out the secrert of the rin'negan vision...
If and when he enters sage mode (i have to believe that a shinobi of his standing could achieve this)Then i'm basing
off Naruto.That he with Ma & Pa would be able to see better in the smoke created than sasuke?(Natrual energy
will see FORM of natrual energy better than the sharingan seeing chakra)?IMO.
I also think that he'd use a ''kage bushin'' as a decoy whilst accessing the strength of his opponent and or gaining time
to enter sage mode..whether he summons bunta or ken chan?I don't see the argument that these summons inbued
with ''natrual energy'' would be susceptible to the sharingan.AS this has NEVER been shown.A byuui is entirely different,
on so may scales imo.Or Oro snake Manda for that matter(before that's thrown in..lol)
If this scenario can be successfully argued against without bias..(i know lol)Then maybe we can get to the real truth
about this match....
Some else made a really good point as in..In preception.Itachi placed jiraiya high in skill.Sasuke has been argued to have
surpassed his bro currect level.But was Jiraiya sage mode took into account when Itachi mae his statement too kisame.
Even Pain acknowledged to zetsu that ''it was jiraya he was facing''.
I had this was a hard match up on the front page and was already leaning to sasuke with me thinking about my above
comments lol.Does it help those that see Jiraiya as a victor in this..those sitting on the fence.Laters still not voted yet.
---------- Post added at 02:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:30 AM ----------
Jiraiya had no knowledge of Amaterasu and probably still doesn't, if we ignore the tourney rule that no character has info on another character.
This is in fact not acurate...Jiraiya SEALED amaterasu after itachi and kisame escaped.He sealed it...Therefore he has a counter
to it...that's simple logic...it matters not if we've not seen him demonstrat this during a battle.The fact is.It is what it is.Oh
and for future events..Naruto being his student will have knowledge in how to seal it as well..It just has to be IMPLIED by
kishi...that's why this is a great read.Imo.
Last edited by kakashidad; June 25, 2011 at 03:34 AM.
Originally Posted by jdw
Orochimaru disagrees. So does C. You know the deal. Until Jiraiya shows a capacity to escape Genjutsu there isn't the slightest reason to believe he can escape Genjutsu from someone as proficient at it as Sasuke is. He fooled the strongest Genjutsu user in the series with his Genjutsu and paralyzed Orochimaru. And he one-shotted a Jounin-level Genjutsu type ninja who should've been good at defending against Genjutsu. He also took direct control of the largest boss level summon shown. I don't know how the heck you came to the conclusion his Genjutsu is weak. Probably because you're comparing it Itachi's.
Originally Posted by jdw
Jiraiya is forced to waste chakra disrupting Genjutsu cast on all of his summons, leaving him with no chance to reach Sage Mode because he's either breaking concentration to flee from his own summons, or he's breaking concentration inorder to disrupt a Genjutsu cast on them. This is all assuming Sasuke doesn't decide he'd rather just kill his summons outright.
As for terrain, we've never been given a genuine update on whether the arena has forests, buildings, boulders, or bodies of water. I've always considered them wide open spaces like the chuunin exams area.
Last edited by ninjabot; June 25, 2011 at 04:37 AM.
---------- Post added at 06:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 PM ----------
Nothing prevents him but its irrelevant. You can be sure as hell Sasuke is not going to fire his Amaterasu at the thing that just whent poof from nowhere. Kakashi had to go underground to escape Itachi sights when he used a clone and Itachi was fighting 4 people. JMan needs to do something to get out of sight before using clones or its irrelevant.
Well it depends. Do you belive JMan has a biju inside himself to replicate that? Bee only got back up fast because the 8 tails snaped him out of it realy fast.Quote:
I sugest you read that fight again. Danzo was completly stuned and the seal was placed before the genjutsu when he made contact with Sasuke and he got his hand choped.
That is because the tree can grow fast as hell. Kakashi had no time to make seals or move 1m. He had to use Kamui remember? Kakashi himself was just siting in the open looking at Sasuke, Sasuke put up Susano got a arrow and fired it. There was no opening but a normal shot. The arrow is that fast and the tree is that fast. This is the first Hokage we are talking about. His trees grow insane fast, remember that he was able to trap with a tree a jumping Sarutobi.Quote:
Well this is exacly my point. In that case JMan wanted information and in this case he realy wants to beat Sasuke. How can he guaranty Sasuke is going to be there when he comes back? Now he needs to stay in contact with him or he loses the fight. Its identical to the Pein fight. You can't just leave the battlefield for a extended period of time and when you get back you target to be there. This is not going to work if he can't find a way to keep Sasuke there. Going by your logic Sasuke leaves, JMan comes back 5 minutes later, Sasuke is not there, JMan leaves himself and then 1 week later Sasuke comes back and states: Hmm he is not here.. Gues i won, WOHOO. This is not how it works.Quote:
As for having a body of water nearby, I don't think we should create any environmental advantages for either sides. Otherwise you can easily just say they are fighting in a storm and Sasuke zaps Jiraiya with Kirin.
Naruto could NOT fuse with pa toad because of the KB. This implies that their chakra will mix. two separate individual but combined chakra systems in one body is basically how a jinchurki works. Jiraiya uses this mechanic to stay in sage mode, indefinitely. So is it not a fair assumption that either ma or pa could disturb his chakra if he were to fall into genjutsu.
The arguments that the fire sealing technique were slow because no one was around is based on the assumption that they are slow. How do you know he didnt see a need to perform a quicker sealing technique? Naruto often uses clones to perform the rasengan but he can also do it by himself one handed. Jiraiya doesn't rush into nuke mode like sasuke he uses the appropriate amount of effort as the situation requires. Did he see konan and stomp her with toad oil fire bath and odama rasengan ? No. Why? Because he only used the appropriate tool to size her up and counter.
My point is that any tricks that work on the rinningan would most likely work on the descendant sharingan, and since genjutsu is the realm of the sharingan then it could be argued sasuke would be 'immune' to it. However he doesn't have the eyes of the sage of 6 paths so I think that is unlikely.
If Jiraiya can work out the secret to the bodies of Pain, I doubt he wouldn't be able to suss out every detail of sasuke. With the frogs as back up and his ability to form barriers and seals who is to say that Jiraiya wouildn't play kiss chase with sasuke till his chakra runs out, and then he comes out. Its not like he is going to run out of sage mode with the elder toads on his back.
but of course sasuke always has just enough chakra and just enough time to do anything...
The thing is that the Sharingan and Rinnegan are two different tools that work in completely separate ways, even if they are related. the method to handle the Rinnegan techniques would not work for handling the Sharingan's techniques. Case in point genjutsu. All Sasuke would need is to lock eyes with Jiraiya once and he can make Jiraiya see what he wants or even outright knock him unconscious. The only defense is to avoid eye contact and that would be nearly impossible in the middle of battle. Simply knowing that the Sharingan can cast genjutsu doesn't help actually protect against the genjutsus. The same with Susanoo and Amaterasu. Those aren't techniques that can be handled simply by knowing of them. Even if Jiraiya had detail knowledge of all Sasuke's techniques, he would still have a hard time because of their nature. But in a situation where he'll have no forewarning, the first usage would always have an advantage.
Yeah my bad, I remembered the sequence of events wrongly but Danzou never seemed bothered by the genjutsu at all except the initial shock at Itachi. As a matter of fact, I believe that Danzou broke out himself since the seal simply stopped Sasuke's physical movement.
unlikely it was the first time Sasuke used Tsukuyomi. He didn't leave the person on fire, he had not unlocked Susanoo yet, and there are only 3 Mangekyou techniques, and he was talking about "the mind" having been left open by fright.
As for the field, I always imagined it was just some big random piece of land. If it is like the chuunin tournament, it creates a one-sided advantage for Doton all the way through (the ground is dirt, it appears). Unless they are all fighting in a place made from materials that cannot be elementally manipulated by shinobi, I dunno.
---------- Post added at 09:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------
As for the range of Amaterasu, it is a close range jutsu, so distance nullifies it:
Also, what is the standard for knowledge in the tournament? Things that are generally known, right? It seems that by now in the manga timeline, MS is generally known, much like it is known that Jiraiya is a summoner of toads, etc. More thing became known to the shinobi world in the time since Jiraiya encountered Itachi. If we take current world knowledge post Kage summit, MS techniques are basically known across the shinobi and samurai world.Quote:
---------- Post added at 09:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------
small, weak genjutsu, so I went with that.
sasuke will win for the crazy arsenal of power that itachi in planted in his MS(all itachi's techniques) but sasukle genjutsu against itachi's tsutuyomi is a joke so jiraya could break sasuke genjutsu easy, i don't understand why people think that sasuke will defeated jiraya easy eventually sasuke will win against jiraya but before that jiraya will give sasuke a tough fight, jiraya arsenal is pretty good and his wise and had experient in the battlefield.
While that is truly fantastic, we are not even sure if Sasuke is able to sustain that form at all or for how long, or the defensive capabilities. Itachi's had Yata's mirror, so it never really had to take damage to compare when we saw it. Sasuke couldn't even sustain his for 1 second.