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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
Yeah, I doubt Kakuzu had anything to do with it, since he was imprisoned and punished for failing his assassination mission. If Hashirama did die from the wounds Kakuzu gave him, then it couldn't have been considered failing. And if Kinkaku and Ginkaku had anything to do with his death, then that probably would have been mentioned alongside the information of them almost killing Tobirama.
maybe madara came back as tobi and killed him by surprise i doubt shodai expected madara to come.
Tobirama wasn't killed by Ginkaku and Kinkaku. He almost died by their hands. Meaning that Torbirama is one bad motherfucker. However, it's been stated that Tobirama died confronting a team of 20 juunin. Talk about epic. I sure hope it wasn't 20 noob juunins (like the ones constantly dying as fodder in the current war). It should be a team of Akatsuki-level juunin who did Tobirama in. But that's just me ranting .
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Last edited by DementedKirby; June 21, 2011 at 02:39 PM.
The team of 20 jounin that attack Tobirama, Hiruzen and Danzou was named the Kinkaku Butai (金角部隊) which translate like Golden Horn Squad, so of course we expect Kinkaku (金角) and Ginkaku (銀角) to be part of it.Quote:
My point was Muu expected Tobirama to be alive. If Tobirama was killed prior to him and Mizukage II, the Tsuchikage wouldn't be looking around for the second Hokage. So Muu had to die before Tobirama.Quote:
Madara said that he respected Shodai more than anyone. He fought with everything he had and lost. So how does coming back with a mask change anything? Besides, he lost control of the Kyuubi, his ace in the hole. He wouldn't come back and fight against him hiding behind a mask and/or doing anything underhanded. He even stated himself that he had to bide his time and return and that only time will show the true victor of that battle. In other words, Hashirama may have won that battle, but Madara will end up winning the war.
If I remember correctly, during the fight of Orochimaru and Sandaime, when he uses to Edo Tensei to bring back Hashirama and TObirama, Orochimaru says something like "first, let me bring them back to their true form". This could mean that the amulet used to control the dead ones can actually change their age to best fit the needs.
On the war, Kabuto may be using the people's real face/age when they died to cause an impact on the shinobi alliance, such as Asuma fighting Inoshikachou, or Chyo fighting the shinobi from Suna, etc. Yet, one thing I found weird is that Sai's brother was actually Sai's age, but didn't he die a while ago? Shouldn't he be younger than Sai? Again, perhaps the amulet changed that.
Not sure, but that's my 2 cents...
For Shin, we never knew his age to begin with, just that he was older than Sai. He could have died 5 years ago at 15 and Sai, then 12, outgrow him to 17 by the time they meet again. The same shit goes for Mangetsu and Suigetsu.
But your theory could explain why Sasori is 15, he should have been 35, but he looks like is puppet made from his 15 years old body.
My theory is that Senju Hashirama was Killed by Senju Tobirama. I think the reason for the death of the Shodai Hokage will be revealed to be related to the final secret of the Mangekyou Sharingan that Itachi was talking about.
In this theory Shodai may have succeeded in defeating Madara at the Valley of the End, but not before falling prey to Madara's final jutsu. The EMS jutsu that allowed him to implant his will onto Shodai, and slowly erode his character until Madara's own character resurfaces. Thus allowing for the conditions necessary to create the Uchiha/Senju hybrid.
So Shodai became completely corrupted, implanted Madara's eyes into his own body and then had to be stopped by his brother.
That wouldn't be necessary in my theory. Nidaime would have been aware of what happened to his brother and he was still alive for some time after his death. The theory also could explain why Nidaime imposed such restrictions to the Uchiha, that is if he found evidence that Madara's will was passed along to someone in the Uchiha clan too.
Basically what I'm saying is that at the time they were used as Oro's Edo Tensei, there wouldn't have been anything that Nidaime could tell Sandaime that he didn't already have the chance to.
Tough one....especially as he died shortly after Konoha was founded. Some other data book translation says he died just when the village began to flourish. We don't know when Kakuzu tried to kill him, was that before the fight with Madara or after?...everything seems to point to that fight with Madara but though why nothing has been mentioned so far, who knows!
If anything, I think that Tobirama created Edo Tensei in order to bring his brother back from the dead.
As everybody knows, it can be nothing else than the Incurable Cough of Death! http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...leCoughOfDeath It already killed Itachi and Kimimaro, and made Gekko Hayata sick. Wouldn't be strange to see another one of Konoha's hero's get killed by something so trivial. And it is an easy way to have him die without being defeated.
Hard to figure out who killed him, but to put things in order, I think madara fought hashirama first, before kakauzu, and that after that assasination attempt did senju start spreading the tailed beasts, still hard to tell how he died though...