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View Poll Results: Raizel VS Raskreia: Who would win?

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  • Raziel

    10 83.33%
  • Raskreia

    1 8.33%
  • A Draw

    1 8.33%
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Thread: Rai vs. The Lord

  1. #16
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member Omnion_1990's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    she doesnt have ragnarok. that sword looks nothing like the one the previous lord left behind. they only reason you think its ragnarok is because the other noob clan leaders said it was, which isnt true. they only said it because they think the previous lord passed it down to the current lord, which i very much doubt. thats either a part of the lords soul like with "grandia" and the kertia or something else.

    the other lord wanted rai to be lord over her, and even said rai was more suite to being the lord. so i doubt he would give that supreme power over to her when he himself had his doubts about the current lord being suitable.

  2. #17
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted lawlett-kun's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    imo i think that rai is stronger, since i suppose that noblesse get stronger as the time goes. Since Lord hs been a lord for what 500 years only and Rai was around there since the prev lord. Oh and whats this red talk about if lord has ragnarok she will own rai? From the last chap i understood that Rai is just as important as the lord, and in terms of strength i believe rai has to be stronger. So atleast Rai's sol weapon should be equally strong to Lords. But anyway Rai> Lord 100 %

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  4. #18
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member S-H-I-G-U-R-E's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    The Lord just got trolled XD

  5. #19
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Otters11's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    I voted Draw. = I believe Rai is only fighting because the Lord requested it.

    There is some point it be made or clarified, and then the Lord upon learning this fact will discontinue fighting.

  6. #20
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member S-H-I-G-U-R-E's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Quote Originally Posted by Otters11 View Post
    I voted Draw. = I believe Rai is only fighting because the Lord requested it.

    There is some point it be made or clarified, and then the Lord upon learning this fact will discontinue fighting.
    Which means that Rai WINS the fight, since for the Lord winning would mean killing them all while Rai's objective is just to stop this foolishness, rescue Gejuteel and listen to what the old Lord had to say.

  7. #21
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted lawlett-kun's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Quote Originally Posted by Omnion_1990 View Post
    she doesnt have ragnarok. that sword looks nothing like the one the previous lord left behind. they only reason you think its ragnarok is because the other noob clan leaders said it was, which isnt true. they only said it because they think the previous lord passed it down to the current lord, which i very much doubt. thats either a part of the lords soul like with "grandia" and the kertia or something else.

    the other lord wanted rai to be lord over her, and even said rai was more suite to being the lord. so i doubt he would give that supreme power over to her when he himself had his doubts about the current lord being suitable.
    i think that her current weapon is not a complete Ragnarok. Like before Lord died he splited his spoul weapon, just like what keritia clan leader did to his sons.But then again Rai called her weapon Ragnarok, even though it looks a bit different than original ragnarok

  8. #22
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Otters11's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Common Misunderstanding. No weapon has been split!
    Soul power may be added to a weapon. Just as you may add Mana to weapons in RPG's and card games.
    In the Kertia Clan the last lord divided his mana, giving a little to a weapon for second son.
    Each clan leader adds their mana to the Symbol of their clan before passing on.
    None have split any weapons up or divided up power after it has been added.

    The previous Lord, left his Ragnorak to Raizel. Then vested his soul in the blade he gave to his daughter.
    Had he given her the true, and first Ragorak he had inherited she would be too powerful for Raizel.
    This is my guess. Because Raizel seems to have recognized the blade name or at least the soul in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by S-H-I-G-U-R-E View Post
    Which means that Rai WINS the fight, since for the Lord winning would mean killing them all while Rai's objective is just to stop this foolishness, rescue Gejuteel and listen to what the old Lord had to say.
    Rai isn't trying to stop any foolishness. He is participating in it!!!! Because he was commanded to weild his power by the Lord. It is my guess that this is what Gejutel is actually apologizing for. I'm sorry that you were made to fight by coming here; I'm sorry that my dishonesty to the Lord led to this situation. It was gejutel's decision not to reveal what or who he had discovered to the current lord, that led to his predicament.

  9. #23
    Registered User 初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner Giady's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Quote Quote:
    The previous Lord, left his Ragnorak to Raizel. Then vested his soul in the blade he gave to his daughter.
    Had he given her the true, and first Ragorak he had inherited she would be too powerful for Raizel.
    This is my guess. Because Raizel seems to have recognized the blade name or at least the soul in it.
    I doubt this...The Noblesse has the power that stands above all others so...i am sure that the power of Raizel was equal to that of the previous Lord also because he respected too Raizel...there must be a reason because he was adamant about wanting to leave Ragnarok to Raizel...maybe her daughter was too weak and emotional to handle that weapon...probably the previous Lord will explain everything in the message he left in his shrine...

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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    MAAN lord got owned and was almost knocked around like a toy
    noblesse ftw

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    Halfway 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Lord has Ragnarok, Raizlel has a soul weapon but can it counter the legendary Ragnarok.

    It seems to have come to a battle of Soul Weapon vs Soul Weapon.

    Rai has thus far had no problems in blocking or dogging the lords attacks.

    A powerful weapon is useless if you cant hit your target.

    What do you guys think?


  13. #26
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Otters11's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Is it right to say Raizel has a soul weapon? Would it be better to say Raizel's soul power instead?

    He is so old, that unlike the clan members his collected life experience or power is all still contained within him. As Dark Lord, and I agree; Raizel seems to originate before recorded time in this story. And he hibernates, instead of entering eternal sleep/dying.

    ~ And again, the shield to protect the shrine is gone. With both of them sudden;t powered up, they would have to move far away to continue fighting. I really don't see them fighting anymore at the current location, especially since they both still feel they must show respect for the past Lord's place of rest.

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  15. #27
    MH Senpai 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! phio_chan's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie View Post
    Lord has Ragnarok, Raizlel has a soul weapon but can it counter the legendary Ragnarok.

    It seems to have come to a battle of Soul Weapon vs Soul Weapon.

    Rai has thus far had no problems in blocking or dogging the lords attacks.

    A powerful weapon is useless if you cant hit your target.

    What do you guys think?
    I wonder. Frank seemed very worried, especially over the fact that his master gave up the 'half' Ragnarok to the Lord to make it perfect. Judging from that, Rai would definitely have problems fighting Lord and her Ragnarok, especially after Rai had 'taunted' her that much with his advices and speeches. I think both of these guys are in equal strength. What counts now is their skill to control their emotion and take advantage of the situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Otters11 View Post
    Is it right to say Raizel has a soul weapon? Would it be better to say Raizel's soul power instead?

    He is so old, that unlike the clan members his collected life experience or power is all still contained within him. As Dark Lord, and I agree; Raizel seems to originate before recorded time in this story. And he hibernates, instead of entering eternal sleep/dying.

    ~ And again, the shield to protect the shrine is gone. With both of them sudden;t powered up, they would have to move far away to continue fighting. I really don't see them fighting anymore at the current location, especially since they both still feel they must show respect for the past Lord's place of rest.
    This is my personal opinion, but isn't power a weapon as well? It's just a matter of term, so I don't take it very seriously.
    At any rate, I agree that they might not continue their fight inside the shrine. A message from the previous Lord would probably come out, stopping them; or they would go discuss things more peacefully somewhere else; or move their fight to a field when they can destroy each other without having to worry about anything. I don't believe they would fight long, though; there are lots of matters to settle, including the sentence of Gejutel and Seira. The Lord couldn't possible forget about it.

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  17. #28
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Otters11's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    I feel ya. But it also depends on what type of power is being described. Social power is an intangible weapon, because it's the power to sway others in how they act and behave. Wave power is a physical idea, but the idea is to abstract energy from its motion. The word power by itself is meant to be an abstract idea of potential, and weapon a physical manifestation. Though your opinion is totally correct, in that for human life, the defined meanings are often lost as the power of words & ideas may cut us deeper than physical weapons. Here are two definiitions from WordWeb.

    Power: (physics) the rate of doing work; measured in watts (= joules/second)
    Weapon: an item, such as a Stun gun, you hit a stalker or drunken aggressor with its power.

    Hope the definition helps. A powerful-weapon, should put them on the ground & sound an alarm to attract help.
    I don't know if they make one, but my faith in the police helping people is dropping.

    Today I spent a good hour trying to figure out if I could afford someone's advise and buy two good locks for my cruiser. Then a kind off duty officer who's shopping comes up looking to buy cable locks for her and he friend's new bikes. She picked a cable so thin we use it for hanging cloths in the back yard. When I told her how weak it was she decided not to buy anything at all??? Cops that's can't make good decisions for themselves, don't inspire much hope for the rest of us. If anything I was hoping she might be able to help me with her experience. All she did was make me feel like civilians are even more helpless against crime or thieves than we already are. It's like if we are sheep, then sheep dog that protects us is blind or maybe even deaf to us sheep when we are trying to help them avoid leading us by example into greater perils.
    Last edited by Otters11; July 23, 2011 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Added an opening paragraph & made words bold.

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  19. #29
    MH Senpai 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! phio_chan's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Probably so. Although surely we can't compare the 'power' we're talking about with the definition of power from physics. That's kinda far, in my opinion. XD

    But I can understand what you're trying to say. It makes sense too, up to the point that I'm pretty confused now about the precise meaning of 'soul weapon' in Noblesse. Or maybe Gejutel just did a mistake, and somehow explained the meaning of what Rai could do as a soul weapon...?

  20. #30
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member Otters11's Avatar
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    Re: Rai vs. The Lord

    Even in your confusion you are correct.

    Rai hasn't had to pass away and leave his power in an item for the next generation. So the power that might be stored in a weapon has continued to collect and build up in him. He is his own soul weapon. His body is the container of his blood lines power. There isn't a weapon to reveal. Because Rai isn't like the other Nobles or Clans. They haven't said how old he is...But to this date the idea is that Rai has not had an implied predecessor and that he infrequently hibernates, where by contrast a Noble reaches the end of their life cycle and dies, leaving the power of their soul in a container (weapon/item) to strengthen the abilities next generation.

    i.e. Rai's powers are his own in their source and origin. No item adds to his powers. Perhaps Rai could create a soul weapon, if the time or reason came to pass for him to try? But my responses were to your question, of "I wonder what his soul weapon looks like?" And in response Gejutel-nim of the story and I, as a reader imply that his soul weapon is in his own blood, or his very being as Thee Noblesse. His weapon is his own person.

    Does that make a little more sense?
    Though accessories are cool; in Rai's case, elegance of The Noblesse is in being elegant.
    (a nod to a signature Charlie had. *Dude, after updating it, the line of font is too short, or inelegant to read?*)

    ---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Giady View Post
    I doubt this...The Noblesse has the power that stands above all others so...i am sure that the power of Raizel was equal to that of the previous Lord also because he respected too Raizel.

    ...there must be a reason because he was adamant about wanting to leave Ragnarok to Raizel...maybe her daughter was too weak and emotional to handle that weapon...probably the previous Lord will explain everything in the message he left in his shrine...
    It seems my guesses, have been fairly accurate so far, for this series. Chapter 194, Raizel, "If Ragnorak had been in it's complete form, I would not have been able to face your attacks and block them head on." http://egscans.com/Manga_Viewer/Nobl...isplay=webtoon

    I have a post in the Noblesse forum that took guesses as to the Current Lord feeling or suspecting the inferiority of her weapon. And I wonder if now that Rai has been able to materialize the previous lords weapon, if there is in fact some way to merge the weapons that, would be a physical depiction. In my imagination, you would hold the two together and WILL the strength from one out into the other. That or a smithy would grind them up and melt them down, to forge a new Ragnarok. But for the simplicity of story telling, I suspect they will somehow whirl together and combine power into one weapon??? It could happen.

    My previous basic point, was that the sword Rai had, was the one the previous Lord owned.
    And that the one, the current Lord has; was made by the previous lord, containing only his soul.
    By containing the Previous Lord's soul, she would recognize its power as familiar to her.
    And in not having known the past lords, that came before her, be unable to figure out the rest.
    In effect she would be feeling, "It's powerful, but I expected it was more powerful than this?"
    And that this uncomfortable uncertainty in her own power or judgment would also affect her confidence.

    I'm hoping you are right about, that last guess & the Lords message. Cause there are many many pieces of the story, and we have enough to know that a lot of the connecting pieces have not yet been placed onto the table for us to amicably join them together. We can only try to lay them out in relation to the picture in our mind. Which presents a lot of large gaps. Such as just what is Gejutel's role in the past and present situations?

    Is it possible that in order to protect the Noble Monarchy, Gejutel made Raizel's coffin disappear, so that the lord could not proceed futrther in his plans to break tradition and make a non-Noble or Non-clan being their king, when his role is supposed to be separate from their own? We do know that in the humorous segment of take my fancy sword, it would make a nice decoration, that Gejutel-nim does object to the idea of Raizel, becoming the Lord. Even if he holds him in high regard, in this mild conversation, it is clear that the idea was a burden to his mind, and that he sees himself as a servant of the Throne, more than as a servant of the King or Queen. That could lead to some very sketchy decisions. We know that he deeply respects Raizel-nim and will back peddle on his own word or Opinion in order to to defer, Raizel-nim as superior to himself in all ways, even when those ways do not match his own.

    Spoiler show


    ---------- Post added July 25, 2011 at 06:45 PM ---------- Previous post was July 24, 2011 at 09:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Otters11 View Post
    Common Misunderstanding. No weapon has been split!
    Soul power may be added to a weapon. Just as you may add Mana to weapons in RPG's and card games.
    In the Kertia Clan the last lord divided his mana, giving a little to a weapon for second son.
    Each clan leader adds their mana to the Symbol of their clan before passing on.
    None have split any weapons up or divided up power after it has been added.
    I am so about to eat my words. When I saw how Raizel's materialized Ragnorak I got an uncomfortable feeling. Then when I thought about how will the author merge these two weapons....oi, I knew my basic understanding was in trouble. But now...with an early translation out. I think they about about to literally say the opposite of what I posted. Poor me. And it was such a nice idea too. But this fantasy world likes the powers of magics I can not comprehend.

    i.e. Dude, Frankenstein just manifested a suit of cloths, but he is still bleeding? How'd he do that? Or Why? Would it have been TOO un-manly to manifest band-aids first? lol Here's a box, Frankie. Try and clean yourself up. No one's perfect.
    Last edited by Otters11; July 24, 2011 at 10:42 PM.

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