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Khan, what is your thesis statement? Your posts were too long to read, and I didn't want to read without understanding the argument or your position. What is your thesis statement?
I did read the latest one about wolves though, or skimmed through it anyway.
though the OP post of mine, was a "brief" summary of the entire range of life in my quick understanding (took my like 9 hrs to write... and no time to organize/refine very well as can be seen, lol). of how/why it behaves as it does. all of the factors and processiii involved in what, why, how, when, etc life, including humans, does what it does.
it's too many fields and topics, in too short a time, I just put down the knowledge I could recall within my head in those 9 hrs I used.
maybe in however many years when I'm doing my graduate thesis, I'll start it off in the year or so I have for school to do it in, as my "HK's Thesis on Life", and spend the rest of my life trying to complete it, lol .... nah....
anyone can make their own comments/theories/ideas or argue/discussion/correct whatever. anything about the life sciences.
(I guess exterrestrial discussions are also apart of this thread, so keep discussing about mars too, as long as its about life/habitability of it, as it otherwise becomes more about physics and like non-organiic sciences, than life/organic science fields)
---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------
is cyanobacteria the bacterii that eats/breathes iron (Fe - Ferious) ??? (which makes it possible for life to live on an asteroid, and thus the theory that we could all be martians, martian life came to the earth via asteroids and gave birth to earthlings, hehe)
(there's also, spiders that actually get taken -somehow- up into the stratosphere or whichever layer, the one that's practically outer space, the outermost one. another evidence that some life can live in space.... somehow... though we humans certainly can't... spacesuits!)
obviously terraforming the planet is an entirely different matter.
but for human colonization, we can create artificially habitatble/"terraformed" climates/environments within domes. mars does have water and other resources, to sustain oxy and plant life which is needed to get rid of the CO2 humans expell.
however, I think there's a debate over actually whether terraforming a planet would take long or not...
look how fast we're changing our planet... so terraforming mars may actually not take very long at all. it's a debate though, I think and people argue both ways. I personally think a planet can be terraformed quickly... as we do have our own earth and our global warming/human actions that is changing it.
The question is more:
will what we do, result in what we wanted to occur, hehe. can we actually control terraforming/climate change to doing what we were wanting to occur....
I think much of our arguments are more over the terms/definitions of what natural selection is.
in its actual definition, I agree that you're probably right, though I disagree that as a small factor, natural selection is not involved. I think you seem to exclude it from being a factor at all.
yes, the increase in average humanity height, has been mainly attributed to humanity's increased health/living conditions/life, thanks to our technological advances. But that's not to say that natural selection isn't playing its small aprt.
let me try to explain this way, but first let me define natural selection as how I see it:
natural selection is merely the consequences of the relationships amongst you, others, and the environment.
for example, if "Mr. Einstein and Mrs. Einstein" didn't select each other on whatever the "chemistry" was for them, we'd have no Albert Einstein, which without him, I'd say we'd probably not be where we are today in terms of our understanding of the universe.
so, while yes, natural selection may play a small part, as can be seen, I'm also arguing that natural selection can/does actually play a very big part.
now, I'm not saying that the increased "healtiness" hasn't been a major factor in humanity's increased height, but I am saying to not discount nor be nieve that natural selection doesn't play a part as well, and it can even very well play a big part as well, hehe.
actually, the world we have today, is directly from our "chemistry", who we choose to be our mates. "History is the history of sex". There'd probably be no ww2, if Hitler's parents didn't get the "hots" for each other. There probably wouldn't be the war on terrorism if UBL's parents never got the "hots" for each other. there's be no 8 years of bush JR. if Mr. bush sr. and mrs. bush never met and had kids.
it's kinda quirky, when you think of everything that has happened, as being directly do to who we chosen to "fall in love" with
who you choose to have sex and a baby with determines the course of human history! choose your partners wisely! no pressure!
Last edited by HegemonKhan; July 01, 2011 at 06:07 PM.
We can't terraform Mars easily. Earth has all the qualities needed to sustain life: it doesn't constantly get bombarded by meteor, there are numerous plants and animals with great ecosystem, especially plants that breathe in carbon dioxide and breathe out oxygen that was formed for centuries without oxygen breathers, and Earth has ozone layer to protect lifeforms from getting most of the radiation from the sun. Mars' weather would be horrible, and we'd consume too much oxygen and release too much carbon dioxide and other bad gases that may be deadly. Earth does have eons of oxygen so it's hard to run out of oxygen, but Mars doesn't.
Plus, Mars doesn't have great amount of water that Earth does. Plus, it'd be unstable living there.
the discussion is more about whether its technologically doable now (is it possible?). As I'm sure everyone agrees in actually doing it, that it's not feasibly practical. chance of actually trying to terraforming and/or colonizing mars:
0.000...1 / 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
we can artificially create everything we need to live in domes and thus colonize mars, and slowly as we live in the domes, we work on terraforming mars the planet.
inside the domes first:
marshian water -> H2O, O2, CO2, O3, H,
earth plants -> food, O2, moisture/climate, medicine, drugs, sun-screen (lol, hey it might help reduce radiation exposure), etc..
earth animals (excluding us-humans) -> CO2, food, fur, other resources/uses, Ca - bone, etc..
earth animals (humans - us) -> CO2, and all that we can do, etc...
earth's (human's) machines/robots -> prepare for humans; build the domes, infrastructure, get the water, get other marshian resources, factories, smelters, etc...
(I need to go research, what mars has, and whatever else is needed... go back and play some of my games, if I could, or read the manuals, for information, lol)
Last edited by HegemonKhan; July 01, 2011 at 06:58 PM.
Kahn, you are going a bit out of topic here. Natural selection is the selection of gene. Einstein and Hitler had a great influence on human History but that is a complete different topic. Universal gravitation would have been discovered sooner or later, Einstein or not. WWII would have happen sooner or later,Hitler or not. These 2 people actions were determined by much more things than 2 sexual reproductions, and you cannot say than human species has genetically evolved because of this 2 people.
As for Mars, I think one of the big problem considering solar radiations is that there is no magnetic field. Earth magnetic field helps getting rid of a big part of them. And you don't generate a planet magnetic field that easily....
by curiosity, I check the rate of success of the missions to Mars, and it is so low that it's called Mars Curse :-)
Human Behavior (Sociology):
Businesses and Businessmen are very smart (It *IS* a BUSINESS), they know human behavior (sociology) inside and out:
(and teenagers, and 20-30 year olds too, ARE VERY STUPID, I mean "impressionable" !!!)
Merchants of Cool
(you can click on the 6 grey boxes to watch it for free !!!)
Be Scared !!! Be very scared !!!
(The "Beorguis" controlling/enslaving the "proletariets" more and stronger than ever, and the "proletariets" don't even know it, they think it's their culture and their actions/behaviors, oh are they so wrong !!)
"Teens are like Africa" -Robert McChesney, Communications Prof. at U. of Illinois
OUCH, that's a stinger alright, hehe !!!!
Last edited by HegemonKhan; July 15, 2011 at 03:47 PM.
And why would humans go up to colonise Mars themselves? The countries that are the most able to afford space travel will probably have declining populations, tho cost of transporting food and ore between Mars to Earth is too prohibitive for mining colonies to be a viable reason and there's no natives up there on Mars for travellers to trade with or conquer, nor fertile soil to settle upon... its unlikely humans will find a reason to waste so much effort colonising Mars, unless its to station weapons up there.
Which is a shame, because I like Neo-Venezia.
Yep, eugenics ftw. People associate eugenics with Nazi programs in Germany, but it just means 'good breeding', and people who see themselves as good people will naturally want to pass on their good genes, but society actually gets in the way of that, especially for women. People should sleep only with good mates, and put family first over selfishness and harmful demands to conform to a sick society.Quote:
In the case of females, never feel pressured to put work before motherhood like society brainwashes people to do, and they should never, ever, 'abort' a baby. If someone doesn't want a baby, they should let it live and it'll still bring pleasure to adoptive parents. And besides there is help for single mothers so an unplanned child needn't get in the way. Its stupid to sacrifice the instinct to motherhood for societies demands, when societies values and the pressures it places upon individuals are dysgenic and therefore harmful to both individuals and to society.
And women shouldn't sleep around, because its women who have the highest investment in childbirth and childrearing, so men should be tested thoroughly beforehand to make sure they're worth it! If a man finds it easy to get sexual access to a woman, he will take it for granted and make no investment in her wellbeing. Is that really good for a girl?
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Some online books to read if you like animals.
The New Dinosaurs
Man After Man
Mysterious Creatures (.pdf)
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I doubt Yagi reads biology, but HK has a 'yoma=parasite' theory about Claymore, so he might like this .pdf because it has information about that sort of thing.
Outer Space, including space colonies and/or new colonized planets, will be for war - military might, as is explained well by...
(Anime Character) Heero Yuy's school paper from the anime series Mobile Suit Gundam Wing (MSGW):
"Earth the planet in the solar system that miraculously gave birth to life. In the year After Colony 195, with the development of the colonies people now live in new surroundings. Thanks to plentiful natural resources and cultivated technological abilities. However, this new world is nothing but an imitation of human kinds motherland the Earth. But why were the colonies made in the first place? I hear the main purpose was technological development to improve the lives of human kind on Earth. Did human kind start asking too much from this imitation world? The self-sustained way of life is more stable than life on Earth especially since it lacks the risk of natural disasters.
It appeared that this unlimited growth was guaranteeing the eternal existence of human kind. Perhaps there was an age where people dreamed of the possibilities in the outer space; where they could start from scratch. However it's unthinkable that the colonies or that humankind will ever forget the Earth. What did technological development in the colonies bring to the Earth? The kind of technology the Earth wants most: military power. Destruction is part of human nature that can never be gotten rid of; and now the colonies are developing a militaristic disposition. The colonies cannot forget the Earth.
The Earth has great beauty. The animals known as humans have acquired such strength that they even think about controlling this planet for themselves. From the point of view of a planets life the life of a living thing lasts no more than an instant. But in the end, it is only themselves that humans can think of. Nothing changes. The time spent by humans in outer space has been a complete waste. The ideal is just a dream.
This false pacifism. This false living space. Outer space is nothing but a breeding ground for even more battles in the future. Wars throughout history have claimed many lives. Although human kind has never been able to forget the sorrow that has been caused by the wars, they have not stopped fighting. The blood and tears they shed in battle are merely ceremonial. One can't speak of history without referring to the wars in each era as important events. I'm sure the pale pep talks of fighting for peace have been repeated numerous times in the past. The colonies say they need armaments to maintain peace. It's no different from on Earth. The colonies think they have joined the big boys. I guess they believe that the bloodshed would lead to higher morale [to further unite the colonies].
So why do people fight anyway? Perhaps the meaning of human existence lies within their will to fight. People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle. And it's also a fact that the ones who are actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted."
Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 08, 2011 at 10:48 PM.
I don't think colonizing mars is viable even if the resources for such a thing existed. Why would we do that? The planets core is not spinning meaning that the planet is not generating the electromagnetic shield which protects it from cosmic and other sorts of radiation. You could never make the environment fit for life overall, the radiation would make sure of that. Mars from what I understand is a smaller planet than earth and thus ran out of energy for its core to rotate billions of years ago. Its not like there is something to even jump-start there. I do believe that at some point space travel will be possible and colonization of other systems will be viable however right now we have neither the technology nor the planet to do such a thing. Since mars is not viable overall, we would need to turn somewhere else which would be quite far away, more than what our limited lifespan would allow. In other words before we ever think of colonizing other planets we would need faster than lightspeed travel. From what I understand wormholes are actually theoretically possible so at least until we get to that point we won't be going anywhere.
And don't orget there's no soil from the decomposition of native Martian organisms, so that mean either hydroponics or bringing compost from Earth. But if a layer of soil is established, you can effectively 'terraform' within the glass domes. But god knows what crops would grow where half the year is dark... softwood trees and whatever crops can be grown under artificial light anyway? Artificial light isn't cost efficient, so where's the energy source coming from? And people within the domes might choose to live in log cabins, but they aren't a crop that provides enough food for people to eat (bushcraft types like Ray Mears can find a use for pine and spruce needles, but they're not a staple diet).
If I understood what I saw on our television correctly, if the Earth's core stopped spinning it wouldn't matter as long as phytoplankton were still producing enough atmospheric oxygen.
Last edited by faintsmile1992; February 01, 2012 at 03:44 PM.
^ I was talking more about terraforming and why it is impossible to do that. If the technology existed then the only purpose of going to mars would be to mine minerals from there, it should have plenty of what we need. Still, people migrating there is not practical by any means unless earth becomes so absurdly inhospitable that unimaginably powerful earthquakes, winds of hundreds of miles per hour and permanent enourmous amounts of radiation falling on the surface are a better option.
I think the documentary you saw would have to be related to some other topic. A planet's rotating core creates and electromagnetic field around a planet. This electromagnetic field pretty much stops many forms of radiations from reaching the planets surface. Oxygen and plankton cannot do that, that is why the spinning is so important. Without the spinning even the radiation from solar flares, which we barely feel nowadays, would reach us and kill us instantly, including phytoplankton. Well, the atmosphere does provide some protection from incoming space radiation but by no means enough to replace the magnetic shield. In practice we would need both at all times.
As for days on mars, I was under the impression that they were of pretty much the same length as earth. I did read that the polar caps had days about as long as that (which is remarkably similar to our own planet). I guess it would come down to whether the places where days have a regular duration are viable construction places. If you must build by the polar caps you could simply cultivate where light is hitting and when the dark comes move to the other side of the planet to another facility (which should be viable if to begin with you took building materials from earth to mars lol).
I found this by accident online today, from Donald E. Brown 1991. Human universals. New York: McGraw-Hill
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Another one I've found, this time about ape spirituality, medicine etc with notes about other primates such as baboons. It seems that chimps are as spiritual as only modern humans and neanderthals were once thought to be.
Last edited by faintsmile1992; November 11, 2011 at 05:09 AM.
The (terrifying, uber-disturbing) power of sociology science on human behavior:
here's a great case or example of it (and the terrifying power of sociology science of human behavior, submission to authority, real or fake-perceived, and the loss of all reason - loss of brain functioning - going brain dead - as you robotically comply with the authority):
(there's four pages, hit the right arrow button at the bottom)
The Revolution in Human Evolution
Images of the Wildman in Southeast Asia: an anthropological perspective
---------- Post added December 21, 2011 at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was December 18, 2011 at 11:02 AM ----------
The Journal of Social, Political, and Economic Studies
The Mankind Quarterly
Animals make judgments just like we do. Animals have awareness of self. Animals know economics. Animals know deception, duh - deception is much older than humanity, lol (we even fully understand the FULL concept of Lying and concepts involved with Lying by age 2).
Self Awareness (and comprehension of mirrors-reflection of oneself):
A dolphin trainer drew a tattoo on a dolphin and the dolphin rushes to the mirror to see what the hell the trainee did to it.
male (or was it females, or both, meh, I can't remember) dolphins will use the mirror to practice its moves or gestures or body language to impress a female, it'll look over its body, checking how it looks, and etc. "how big is my butt, am I too fat, how is my smile, how is my hair, how is my make-up lipstick masquara, how do my breasts/butt look in these clothes, etc etc etc", stuff like this just as we do ourselves.
chimps are given a silver coin and a gold coin, and it learns that giving the gold coin to the human trainer gets it five bananas and the silver coin only 1 banana. the trainer also has one day of the week, when its doubled, silver coin=2 bananas and gold coin=10 bananas, and the chimp will try to save up its coins until-for that specific day, which it then spends its coins on that day. And other tests of knowledge-understand-concepts of economics and economic principles.
SCI-FI "Sky-Floating Spire-Dome" city:
a person poured cement or some type of plaster into an ant or termite hole and then exacated it, and the bloody thing looked like a SCI-FI sky-Floating Spire-Dome" city (freaky!)
edit: here's the vid of it:
your basic pet dog, put food in front of you (and your dog is trained and behave in not taking it) and stare at it with open eyes.
Now do the same thing but close your eyes... when you open them, the food will be gone
monkeys shown the same thing. a monkey trainer would place food at their feet while facing the food. monkeys wouldn't take the food. trainer does same thing but this time faces away from the food at his feet... food is gone when he turns back around... hehe.
there's this one female dog, that has over 2,000 toys in its "dog room", the trainer asks for a specific toy, and the dog instantly goes-finds right to where that toy is (it has all 2,000 toys' locations memorized!). next the trainer puts a new toy into the "dog new", and asks for the new toy, and the dog again instantly finds the new toy (not only did the dog have all 2,000 toy names memorized, and thus understand the trainer's new toy word, and it was also able to find the toy new instantly)
etc etc etc
some links of Animal's Human-Level Intelligence:
err, I'm having trouble finding the thing I want... I'll get back to you guys on this (in some hrs)
I'll get the information for the tv show that has all this stuff...
(see the link at the bottom of this post)
another ant video:
here's the source of the video that I got some of the content of this post from:
Last edited by HegemonKhan; December 23, 2011 at 01:11 AM.