Weak Points In FT

[Atobe the king]

Idk I guess I'm weird, i had no qualms with dropping Naruto and Bleach after being with those series for years mid arc if i had to. And there's no pleasing people, a confident hero is too cocky, a modest one is too whiny. Cheesy speeches? where have i heard that before. If you're going to make complaints like that you can't really single this one out when a good chunk of the genre is guilty of it is pretty :V.

I will however agree with this

This series needs long-term villains. Mashima is constantly introducing new villains and because of that they don't get much time to be developed or become very interesting. So when Mashima finally does create interesting villains, its that much more frustrating when they end up getting the same treatment.

And again, i don't particularly have issues with people expressing dissatisfaction but there's never any real "discussion" as of late, the FT fanbase on here seems to be the most negative if someone who just got into the series came here they would not feel welcomed or that this is the type of fandom they want to join.

[Finale]

Despite all the disappointments I look forward to reading Fairy Tail every week. If not for the current arc then to see what happens in the next one. This arc had the makings of being epic not just by FT standards but by most of the mangas I read standards. At this point I'm glad this arc is almost over so we can get to the next one. Every arc of FT has some aspect that I like or look forward to seeing. Even in the awful Edolas and Oracien Seis arcs. This arc had so much potential and personally I felt it failed to deliver, (only the war in Naruto disappointed me more than this) but I'll hope that Mashima does better next arc so I'll continue reading.

On a completely unrealated note I feel alot of you guys on Mistgun. Here we had this cool mysterious character that and just when we start to get to see more of him he's gone. That's why I wish Mest was truly his disciple and had picked up on his magic. So yes Mashima's story develpment may not always go as we like but no one will ever be able to say he doesn't create interesting characters.

[hoeru]

to me one of the weak points of fairy tail is that its not rave while you still can feel and see its influence on the story due to cameos and feel its impact on the ft fan base since almost every one who read rave thinks of it being the better story. (i don't since i dropped it after lucias appearance and then jumped to the end. :P)

the other point is... it seems a little unbalanced. theres been a bunch of arcs up til now and some of them dont seem to be leading somewhere. if they are heading towards a larger construct - like edolas being important in order to seal zeref somewhere in the future so he cant use any magic anymore so he can find his peace - then mashima completely leaves his readers in the dark. if i have to compare it to the big ones from jump none of them were farer after almost five years. one piece was in skypiea, naruto was around the time skip, and ichigo was about to become his bankai in bleach ...

well theres at least no issue if its about that fairy tail always wins. theyre said to be the strongest, most reckless and probably most hated guild anyways. i also dont have any problems with those powerups due to magic combination or new techniques - they appear logic to me - or due to friendship which is a shonen standard.

[shinsengumi]

almost every arc starts great and promising yet ends up unsatisfying . whenever there is potential for a huge event now i tell myself better not expect much

[exacta]

Idk I guess I'm weird, i had no qualms with dropping Naruto and Bleach after being with those series for years mid arc if i had to. And there's no pleasing people, a confident hero is too cocky, a modest one is too whiny. Cheesy speeches? where have i heard that before. If you're going to make complaints like that you can't really single this one out when a good chunk of the genre is guilty of it is pretty :V.

I will however agree with this



And again, i don't particularly have issues with people expressing dissatisfaction but there's never any real "discussion" as of late, the FT fanbase on here seems to be the most negative if someone who just got into the series came here they would not feel welcomed or that this is the type of fandom they want to join.

I post in the Bleach discussions the most so I know exactly how you feel. But this arc was just really disappointing to alot of people......I don't remember the forums being like this that much in the past that often.Only a few times when Mashima did something really stupid. And I knew how negative the Bleach forums were here, and I still joined. Although I've never seen a discussion for a manga/arc THIS negative, but again, alot of reasons to dislike the direction this arc went.


Nah,some of the shounen are pretty good with the speeches. Fairy Tail and Rave have INCREDIBLY cheesy speeches. They do. And theres way too much of them. This manga focuses on friendship waaaaaaaaaaaay too much, it's its biggest flaw, and it overuses it as a plot device too much. Come on, you really don't think this arc was ridiculous with how many nakama powerup's Natsu pulled out of his ass? He even did it twice in one fight....

I really didn't think Rave was that good. There were a few parts to it that were good or had potential but it just wasn't a good shounen to me.....I say Fairy Tail is better, but this arc is the worst thing I've ever read because of how much wasted potential it has.

I think the next arc will have a much more positive impact on these forums. I doubt the next arc would have as much hype as this one did.

[hoeru]

simple question: how can a manga about friendship between characters overuse this as element?

[exacta]

simple question: how can a manga about friendship between characters overuse this as element?

By using it as a means to end every fight and throw in giant speeches about it every few chapters. This manga isn't SOLELY about friendship, it has a plot. It's about guilds, magic, Natsu, the secrets behind the dragons and 777 and Zeref and now apparently Acnologia. Despite all that, this manga focuses too heavily on friendship.

It's an extremely common theme in shounen anyways, and just because something puts a strong emphasis on a certain theme doesn't mean its okay for it to shove it down everyones throats, or even that putting such a strong emphasis is a good idea. Friendship is easily the dullest most shallow element you'll find in shounen.The fact that Mashima overuses friendship so much seriously hurts FT. He doesn't have the balls to kill Makarov, yet he's put him in a scenario where he's "going to die" three times now, just to create drama. After the first time it was a load of crap when it didn't work. It doesn't even cause the slightest tension, and if Makarov ever does die I don't think it will be sad at this rate, or nearly as sad as it could've been.

The way the protagonists overcome their enemies with friendship in this manga is just downright stupid. Mashima led us to believe that something tragic would happen this arc, that someone would die or that Fairy Tail would lose, by giving extreme hype behind the 7 kin and backing that hype up with Gazille barely being able to defeat 2 members that they themselves admit were just fodder compared to the 7 kin, not to mention a premonition of something bad happening, the Magic Council practically soiling themselves, and the leader of the guild not only being an ex-leader of Fairy Tail and master of Makarov but also completely owning Makarov without even getting touched, then proclaiming that he taught the 7 Kin himself, that all of them had Lost Magic and that Fairy Tail had no chance.

And it's not just simply friendship that is the problem. Sometimes Mashimas writing is just awful. The S-Class Trial arc becomes a great example of this once Zancrow loses. But the way Mashima implements friendship is cheap, corny, and just dumb. Basically what I'm trying to say is, if you want to know how a manga can overuse friendship as an element, read the S-Class trial arc lol. The beginning was amazing, but after Zancrow dies it all goes to hell....

[hoeru]

bleach isn't about shinigami and their powers solely either - do you consider kubo is overusing the shinigami theme? naruto isn't about ninja and their jutsus either - do you consider mashima is overusing the ninja theme? one piece isn't about pirates and superhuman powers either - do you consider oda is overusing the pirate theme either? one piece also uses this friendship topic massively, even much more than mashima imho. still its the best rated manga of jump. the whole naruto/sasuke topic is based on friendship - and the reason for most of narutos powerups. the friendship topic even shows up in ao no exorcist. people want to read about friendship that's why fairy tail surpassed bleach with sold volumes in 2010, and why ao no ex is such a great success.

so "friendship" probably just isn't the weak point in stories. some just don't like the topic in shonen even though its actually the major part that causes character development and powerups - even to overcome the current enemy which is standing right in front of the protagonist.

[Ero-Sanji]

To me this series has but one flaw and that is Natsu himself.
For a manga that has the name Fairy tail it's far too much Natsu and less Fairy tail. Even Naruto who share the same name as the title of the manga doesn't receive the same treatment as Natsu does in Fairy tail.

Is that a problem though?
Yes, it is when inexplicable and forced situations turns up in almost every arc. E.g. why does the Nakama power up always occur to Natsu and never to anyone else? Why does Natsu always have to face the strongest even if that "strongest" is far stronger than him? I don't really get Mashima's plan...

The phantom guild arc was the best because Natsu fought his opponent who was stronger than him and by the help of his nakama he won. Normally many would complain about Natsu receiving help but the great thing about it was that Lucy helped him by reasonable measures, she started a simple fire instead of the highly tiring problem solver of pumping Natsu with her magic. It was smart, funny and exciting and really brought forth a sense of Fairy tail. Natsu was also exhausted after the fight and unable to fight which in turn meant that someone else fought the guild master, Erza lost to him and thus Makarov was the only one left, great!

The Laxus battle was also good since it showed a simple and quite awesome team-work sequence without some random magic eating or receiving and then we have the shinigami battle that was just like the Gazille battle. With etherion we got introduced to the best way of forcing Natsu to defeat ridiculously stronger opponents. I don't mind random power ups at some occasions during some circumstances just like the first time Natsu ate something outside of regular fire. That time it was interesting and fresh but in this arc it was just too much and actually very silly.

The worst scene ever was the one were they threw Natsu at Hades and he actually manages to land to hits on Hades. Two hits! On a full powered Hades! By a highly injured Natsu, something Makarov didn't manage to do a weaker Hades. Why? How? Why!? And don't get me started on Gazille in this arc...

We get the message that Nakama's is the shit and I agree but please don't contradict yourself in the same arc just to spread the message. The arc began with Natsu getting lectured that backing down is not a bad thing, in the same arc he did the opposite twice and on both occasions he won by random and awfully forced ways. I mean him getting Laxus' power was the most unnecessary power-up ever! It would have been better if they just got trashed around only to have the heart destroyed and the tree restored and then having them do their typical team work attacks. And if you have to include Laxus then let him deal with it and let him shine, don't repeat the same move you've done twice before and leave Laxus on the floor. That's also interesting when Laxus is out of juice he can't even stand up yet the front crew and most definitely Natsu are able to fight? Come on.

I know that comparing to other manga's isn't the right thing to do but One Piece that has the same amount of nakama pressure is handling it in a much better way. I'm too lazy to spoiler alert a comparison but those who have read One piece should know what I'm talking about. It's not always about Luffy, Luffy and Luffy but the whole crew has a place and they certainly know how to lose and back down when facing far to superior forces.

[shinsengumi]

bleach isn't about shinigami and their powers solely either - do you consider kubo is overusing the shinigami theme? naruto isn't about ninja and their jutsus either - do you consider mashima is overusing the ninja theme? one piece isn't about pirates and superhuman powers either - do you consider oda is overusing the pirate theme either?

you dont make sense . shinigami/ninja/pirate themes arent comparable to friendship but MAGES in Fairy Tail
and exacta explained it well enough as to why people think its overused .
"By using it as a means to end every fight and throw in giant speeches about it every few chapters"

seriously ,dont you feel like the exact same thing happening over and over again to the point that you can easyly predict when the nakama power up will kick in ?

[hoeru]

it would have been kind if you hadn't stopped quoting. friendship and it being the source of power ups are a major part of shonen was also part of my explanation. so no, i dont feel that way.

[exacta]

bleach isn't about shinigami and their powers solely either - do you consider kubo is overusing the shinigami theme? naruto isn't about ninja and their jutsus either - do you consider mashima is overusing the ninja theme? one piece isn't about pirates and superhuman powers either - do you consider oda is overusing the pirate theme either? one piece also uses this friendship topic massively, even much more than mashima imho. still its the best rated manga of jump. the whole naruto/sasuke topic is based on friendship - and the reason for most of narutos powerups. the friendship topic even shows up in ao no exorcist. people want to read about friendship that's why fairy tail surpassed bleach with sold volumes in 2010, and why ao no ex is such a great success.

so "friendship" probably just isn't the weak point in stories. some just don't like the topic in shonen even though its actually the major part that causes character development and powerups - even to overcome the current enemy which is standing right in front of the protagonist.

People don't read any of the above because of friendship. It's usually I would think because the plot seems interesting or appealing in some way and the characters are cool. "Ninja", "pirates", and "shinigami" aren't themes. Well, really what we were comparing friendship to was an element. Their not elements of the story so much as types of characters in the stories, which encompasses most of the characters in that mangas world. Oda doesn't use friendship more than Mashima lol. And Oda doesn't have his characters pull wins out of their asses by giving speeches about friendship, Oda usually makes his characters work HARD for the victories they earn, they never come cheap like in Fairy Tail, and a good deal of the time the character isn't neccessarily outmatched.

And Luffy doesn't give speeches about friendship really, its more like he screams at the bad guys for hurting his friends or being an evil asshole, or how he's going to save his nakama, etc. Thats a much better way of using friendship, IMO. And even Luffy at one point screamed for his nakama to retreat. And it ended in tragedy. Sometimes tragedy is good for the plot....a story thats always uplifting starts to feel stale after awhile.

[Ifrit]

To me this series has but one flaw and that is Natsu himself.
For a manga that has the name Fairy tail it's far too much Natsu and less Fairy tail. Even Naruto who share the same name as the title of the manga doesn't receive the same treatment as Natsu does in Fairy tail.

Is that a problem though?
Yes, it is when inexplicable and forced situations turns up in almost every arc. E.g. why does the Nakama power up always occur to Natsu and never to anyone else? Why does Natsu always have to face the strongest even if that "strongest" is far stronger than him? I don't really get Mashima's plan...

The phantom guild arc was the best because Natsu fought his opponent who was stronger than him and by the help of his nakama he won. Normally many would complain about Natsu receiving help but the great thing about it was that Lucy helped him by reasonable measures, she started a simple fire instead of the highly tiring problem solver of pumping Natsu with her magic. It was smart, funny and exciting and really brought forth a sense of Fairy tail. Natsu was also exhausted after the fight and unable to fight which in turn meant that someone else fought the guild master, Erza lost to him and thus Makarov was the only one left, great!

The Laxus battle was also good since it showed a simple and quite awesome team-work sequence without some random magic eating or receiving and then we have the shinigami battle that was just like the Gazille battle. With etherion we got introduced to the best way of forcing Natsu to defeat ridiculously stronger opponents. I don't mind random power ups at some occasions during some circumstances just like the first time Natsu ate something outside of regular fire. That time it was interesting and fresh but in this arc it was just too much and actually very silly.

The worst scene ever was the one were they threw Natsu at Hades and he actually manages to land to hits on Hades. Two hits! On a full powered Hades! By a highly injured Natsu, something Makarov didn't manage to do a weaker Hades. Why? How? Why!? And don't get me started on Gazille in this arc...

We get the message that Nakama's is the shit and I agree but please don't contradict yourself in the same arc just to spread the message. The arc began with Natsu getting lectured that backing down is not a bad thing, in the same arc he did the opposite twice and on both occasions he won by random and awfully forced ways. I mean him getting Laxus' power was the most unnecessary power-up ever! It would have been better if they just got trashed around only to have the heart destroyed and the tree restored and then having them do their typical team work attacks. And if you have to include Laxus then let him deal with it and let him shine, don't repeat the same move you've done twice before and leave Laxus on the floor. That's also interesting when Laxus is out of juice he can't even stand up yet the front crew and most definitely Natsu are able to fight? Come on.

I know that comparing to other manga's isn't the right thing to do but One Piece that has the same amount of nakama pressure is handling it in a much better way. I'm too lazy to spoiler alert a comparison but those who have read One piece should know what I'm talking about. It's not always about Luffy, Luffy and Luffy but the whole crew has a place and they certainly know how to lose and back down when facing far to superior forces.

I totally agree with you. I LOVE FAIRY TAIL. now that aside it's only flaw that everything is inside the strongest team circle.. I don't mind nakama power up....but like u said to the same person over and over again....it's sad. Why?

because we can all agree on 1 thing...Fairy Tail has a lot of great characters but they are not to be used.

like u said making the Big Entrance for Laxus and then destroy the character. there was no need for laxus to appear really. for a very good reason his power up to natsu didn't work in the end ??? so what was that about ?

I laughed my ass off when Erza said this :

http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/249/3

I was like are you sure ? ask Natsu

[Ero-Sanji]

I totally agree with you. I LOVE FAIRY TAIL. now that aside it's only flaw that everything is inside the strongest team circle.. I don't mind nakama power up....but like u said to the same person over and over again....it's sad. Why?

because we can all agree on 1 thing...Fairy Tail has a lot of great characters but they are not to be used.

like u said making the Big Entrance for Laxus and then destroy the character. there was no need for laxus to appear really. for a very good reason his power up to natsu didn't work in the end ??? so what was that about ?

I laughed my ass off when Erza said this :

http://www.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/249/3

I was like are you sure ? ask Natsu

Exactly, it's like Mashima is trying so hard too prove that friendship overcomes everything even the illogical and impossible but the only requirement is that you're within the lead crew. I wonder when we'll see a dark guild fighting so hard for their guild, bonds and friendship?

Sometimes Mashima also forgets his own rules like the time Erza got hit and injured by Azuma's tree blast and then later on she was spared by the same attack because it was the spirit of FT... I still like FT a lot and I'm always eager to read more but it should get back to how it was before the entrance of Gérard.

[Finale]

Exactly, it's like Mashima is trying so hard too prove that friendship overcomes everything even the illogical and impossible but the only requirement is that you're within the lead crew. I wonder when we'll see a dark guild fighting so hard for their guild, bonds and friendship?

Sometimes Mashima also forgets his own rules like the time Erza got hit and injured by Azuma's tree blast and then later on she was spared by the same attack because it was the spirit of FT... I still like FT a lot and I'm always eager to read more but it should get back to how it was before the entrance of Gérard.

You hit the nail on the head. Essentially it seems there is no need for Natsu to continue to train himself because as he is now he can defeat anyone including the series big bad simply by the much vaunted nakama powerup or random deus ex machina. Yes One Piece does have alot to do with friendship but as we have seen in that manga there are simply people that Luffy can't beat no matter how mad he gets. In FT there is no sense of them "losing".