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Thread: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

  1. #151
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    If Jiraiya was really an idiot then he wouldn't have been able to come in time to save Sasuke and Naruto. -.-

    You apparently know nothing about genjutsu.

    Genjutsu can put one under hypnosis, make them see something that isn't there, and etc. Kakashi was able to do it to Zabuza; Kurenai was able to freeze Itachi; Sasuke was able to make Deidara think he got imploded; Itachi was able to make Deidara think he was fighting Itachi....
    I just said that jiraiya is an idiot when it comes to a sexy chick.. He was easily fooled by a sexy chick. Why.? becase he was a pervert. A sexy chick, one of itachi's strategy on how to lured jiraiya away, not to mention itachi can use his so called-high-level-of-genjutsu on jiraiya. but, whatever..

    Im looking from your example about the genjutsu where it able to think your oponents that he was already using his technique.. or should i say the same as itachi can make jiraiya think that he was already using his hair mane jutsu to defend himself whereas in reality his hair was just covered the half of his body.. but i found nothing..

    If itachi can make jiraiya THINK that he was already used his hair mane jutsu to cover his body, don't you think itachi was already manipulating jiraiya's brain.? no.?

  2. #152
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity Shaunlim's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    At least this shows that Jiraiya is capable of actually breaking someone out of Itachi's genjutsu Not that I'm saying he can easily do so in a battle or break himself out but at the very least it shows something about how capable Jiraiya is at this department.

  3. #153
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    Not a single person, not ONE person has called Jiraiya a loser. Why is calling Jiraiya weak against Itachi's Genjutsu considered the exact same as calling him a loser? Is there some unwritten rule that says "Anyone that can't escape Itachi's Genjutsu is pathetic and weak"? Why can't iour argument just mean "Anyone that can't escape Itachi's Genjutsu... can't escape from Itachi's Genjutsu."?

    That's all that's being said. That because ninja better equipped to escape Genjutsu used by Itachi couldn't do it, Jiraiya can't do it either..
    Nothing, but someone/s/you stated that when jiraiya will be caught by itachi's genjutsu then he's dead. because itachi can easily cut his head.

    So if jiraiya can't escape and it will lead him to his death then he's a pathetic and weak.. How come jiraiya, one of the sannin, who has a sage mode, trained by the two great frog, will be killed by someone who's a genjutsu user with ease.? Because oro or some genjutsu expert can't escape/can't do a thing and so is jiraiya.

  4. #154
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    I just said that jiraiya is an idiot when it comes to a sexy chick.. He was easily fooled by a sexy chick. Why.? becase he was a pervert. A sexy chick, one of itachi's strategy on how to lured jiraiya away, not to mention itachi can use his so called-high-level-of-genjutsu on jiraiya. but, whatever..
    And I just said that Jiraiya isn't an idiot when it comes to women. He hinted that he let himself take the bait to find out what Itachi and Kisame were up to, and he came at the right time. While Jiraiya may be a pervert, he's not a pervert that could be fooled by a woman walking up to him.

    So-called? It's a high level genjutsu, nothing so-called about it. The fact that Itachi didn't even try proves that he wasn't trying to fight Jiraiya but just pretend as if Jiraiya could beat him and Kisame. Tobi himself said Itachi went to Konoha to let Danzou and others know he was still alive. From what Itachi and Kisame showed, they could certainly take on Jiraiya.

    Quote Quote:
    Im looking from your example about the genjutsu where it able to think your oponents that he was already using his technique.. or should i say the same as itachi can make jiraiya think that he was already using his hair mane jutsu to defend himself whereas in reality his hair was just covered the half of his body.. but i found nothing..

    If itachi can make jiraiya THINK that he was already used his hair mane jutsu to cover his body, don't you think itachi was already manipulating jiraiya's brain.? no.?
    Didn't Itachi make Deidara think he was already using his jutsu? Or reversed Kurenai's genjutsu onto herself? You probably found nothing because you're ignoring stuff and choose to not find a thing.

    Genjutsu does manipulate brain, but Shisui's been renown as someone who could use genjutsu without the person being aware. Sasuke knew he was in Itachi's genjutsu when they had that genjutsu battle. If it was Shisui using genjutsu, Sasuke probably wouldn't have realized that. So far, shinobi can realize they were under genjutsu, but with Shisui they wouldn't be able to. I dunno where you got that genjutsu doesn't manipulate the brain....

    ---------- Post added at 02:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    Nothing, but someone/s/you stated that when jiraiya will be caught by itachi's genjutsu then he's dead. because itachi can easily cut his head.

    So if jiraiya can't escape and it will lead him to his death then he's a pathetic and weak.. How come jiraiya, one of the sannin, who has a sage mode, trained by the two great frog, will be killed by someone who's a genjutsu user with ease.? Because oro or some genjutsu expert can't escape/can't do a thing and so is jiraiya.
    Basically, you're downplaying Jiraiya and making him look bad just because he loses to Itachi in genjutsu. Right.

    No one ever said he was weak or pathetic or dumb, it's just you saying that.
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  5. #155
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    ^I always find it amusing how enthusiastic fans become whenever discussing a showdown between Jiraya and Itachi (and, to a lesser extent, Sasuke (though I to agree that his loss to Jiraya was rather silly, considering even MS Sasuke is a bad matchup for Jiraya, let alone Sasuke with EMS (who will, presumably, be a match for even Naruto, once he has mastered his new powers))...

    That being said, I have a question regarding Nagato. Since we know little and less about Nagato's physical prowess (i.e. Taijutsu, Speed, Strength) -- beside that he was wheelchair bound -- how are we supposed to infer his speculative physical talent with healthy legs in this tournament? Should we use his overall performance through his paths (or one in particular) in those areas to infer his physical capacity, or should we simply make an educated guess?

  6. #156
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty
    Nothing, but someone/s/you stated that when jiraiya will be caught by itachi's genjutsu then he's dead. because itachi can easily cut his head.
    This is true. It doesn't make him trash. Hell, what happened when Jiraiya hit Animal, Hungry Ghost, and Human Realm with the Frog Song Genjutsu? They were paralyzed and then oneshotted. It's the same thing I'm saying with Itachi and Sasuke.

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty
    So if jiraiya can't escape and it will lead him to his death then he's a pathetic and weak.. How come jiraiya, one of the sannin, who has a sage mode, trained by the two great frog, will be killed by someone who's a genjutsu user with ease.? Because oro or some genjutsu expert can't escape/can't do a thing and so is jiraiya.

    Pein couldn't escape the Frog Song. Does that make him a loser? No. It makes him one of the most powerful ninja in the manga who just happens to fail against Genjutsu. Why can Pein fall to Genjutsu so hard/easily and no one says anything, but when we bring up the very real possibility of Itachi doing the same thing to someone that Jiraiya did we're automatically downplaying the opponent?

    Pein was superior to Jiraiya, and Genjutsu swung the battle in Jiraiya's favor. Jiraiya could be superior to Itachi (he isn't) and Genjutsu would still swing the fight in Itachi's favor. It doesn't make Jiraiya trash. No one's saying he's trash, but we're not about to pretend his title as Sannin exempts him from the effects of Itachi's Genjutsu.

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  8. #157
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2


  9. #158
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    wasnt there a pic of the finals contestants? where can i see it?

  10. #159
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Didn't Itachi make Deidara think he was already using his jutsu? Or reversed Kurenai's genjutsu onto herself? You probably found nothing because you're ignoring stuff and choose to not find a thing. .
    No.. itachi did make deidara seen that he was caught by his jutsu whereas in reality it's deidara who caught by his jutsu..

    I found nothing, where it indicate that itachi can make jiraiya to think that he was already using his hair mane jutsu to defend himself whereas in reality he was just covering half of his body.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Genjutsu does manipulate brain, but Shisui's been renown as someone who could use genjutsu without the person being aware. Sasuke knew he was in Itachi's genjutsu when they had that genjutsu battle. If it was Shisui using genjutsu, Sasuke probably wouldn't have realized that. So far, shinobi can realize they were under genjutsu, but with Shisui they wouldn't be able to. I dunno where you got that genjutsu doesn't manipulate the brain.....
    Shisui's genjutsu can manipulate his oponents brain by adding some information and controlling without the person being aware..

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Basically, you're downplaying Jiraiya and making him look bad just because he loses to Itachi in genjutsu. Right.

    No one ever said he was weak or pathetic or dumb, it's just you saying that.
    Huh.? am i.? it's you and your team who downplaying jiraiya.. It's you and your team who said that when jiraiya will be caught by itachi's genjutsu then itachi can cut his head off.. It was as clear as the sun that your team was the one who downplaying jiraiya. all of you are making jiraiya look bad at itachi's genjutsu. So basically, your team was the one who downplaying jiraiya and not me..

    Agreed.. YOu never said that jiraiya was weak/pathetic/dumb. But from what i read from your assumption, you're indeed portraying/making jiraiya as an idiot, weak, pathetic and dumb.

    ---------- Post added at 08:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    So-called? It's a high level genjutsu, nothing so-called about it. The fact that Itachi didn't even try proves that he wasn't trying to fight Jiraiya but just pretend as if Jiraiya could beat him and Kisame. Tobi himself said Itachi went to Konoha to let Danzou and others know he was still alive. From what Itachi and Kisame showed, they could certainly take on Jiraiya..
    So your point.? itachi went to konoha to let danzo and the others know that madara was still alive, so is this a valid reason why itachi never use a genjutsu on jiraiya.? whereas he can easily cast jiraiya a genjutsu on the spot.

    If itachi was just went to konoha just to let the elders know that madara was still alive, then why the heck he never use his high level of genjutsu on jiraiya the way he did on kakashi and kurenai.?

    Itachi went to konoha not just only to let the elders know that madara was still alive but to capture naruto. if not, then he and kisame will not going follow or waste their time to follow jiraiya and naruto for their search mission..

  11. #160
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by bhasty View Post
    So your point.? itachi went to konoha to let danzo and the others know that madara was still alive, so is this a valid reason why itachi never use a genjutsu on jiraiya.? whereas he can easily cast jiraiya a genjutsu on the spot.

    If itachi was just went to konoha just to let the elders know that madara was still alive, then why the heck he never use his high level of genjutsu on jiraiya the way he did on kakashi and kurenai.?

    Itachi went to konoha not just only to let the elders know that madara was still alive but to capture naruto. if not, then he and kisame will not going follow or waste their time to follow jiraiya and naruto for their search mission..
    He went to Konoha to let the Danzo and the Elders know that he himself (Itachi) was alive just to scare them so they dont try anything on Sasuke (Because Danzo wanted the whole uchiha clan dead).

    Having done that, he needed troll kisame into believing that they were actually trying to capture naruto. So he tells him, well we cant really beat this guy even if we were to call for back-up, let me try something and if that doesent work then well just wait (A COUPLE YEARS LOL) for the next opportunity.

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  13. #161
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaunlim View Post
    At least this shows that Jiraiya is capable of actually breaking someone out of Itachi's genjutsu Not that I'm saying he can easily do so in a battle or break himself out but at the very least it shows something about how capable Jiraiya is at this department.
    Breaking someone else out of a genjutsu and breaking yourself out are two entirely different things, as the former has always been shown to be much easier.

    And again, no one is doubting that Jiraiya can't break out of genjutsu. People just assume that he can break out of lItachi's, despite the evidence that nearly everyone, most of whom are more capable of defending against Genjutsu than Jiraiya got raped by Itachi's genjutsu.
    "The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  14. #162
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    Breaking someone else out of a genjutsu and breaking yourself out are two entirely different things, as the former has always been shown to be much easier.

    And again, no one is doubting that Jiraiya can't break out of genjutsu. People just assume that he can break out of lItachi's, despite the evidence that nearly everyone, most of whom are more capable of defending against Genjutsu than Jiraiya got raped by Itachi's genjutsu.
    It shows that Jiraiya is indeed capable of breaking a Itachi level genjutsu if anything at all. The only difference between breaking another and yourself out is simply at the realising part which I can understand since Itachi is pretty good at being subtle at those stuff as well. Though to say that Jiraiya is completely defenseless due to others being caught is inaccurate IMO since Jiraiya clearly have shown the tools.

  15. #163
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    @bhasty

    Quote Quote:
    Does itachi has the power to manipulate jiraiya's brain just like shisui/danzo's genjutsu .?
    Not only Itachi but any genjutsu user can. Any genjutsu(well perhaps not all of them i am not sure) works by extending their chakra flow through the cerebral nervous system of their target to control their minds chakra and thereby affecting their five senses. Its how genjutsu works.

    @Shaunlim


    Quote Quote:
    It shows that Jiraiya is indeed capable of breaking a Itachi level genjutsu if anything at all. The only difference between breaking another and yourself out is simply at the realising part which I can understand since Itachi is pretty good at being subtle at those stuff as well. Though to say that Jiraiya is completely defenseless due to others being caught is inaccurate IMO since Jiraiya clearly have shown the tools.
    Sakura was able to do the same thing (even if that old bat helped). As the other dude said its 1 thing to get out of genjutsu and another thing to get someone else out of genjutsu.
    Now if Itachi uses Tsukiyomi (and he will) this becomes completly irrelevant. I would like to add that Itachi was able to place even Kakashi in a normal genjutsu and he has a sharingan (yes that was a clone but a clone is the same thing as the original).

    Whatever JMan does he CAN'T brake out of Tsukiyomi... Made clear in the manga...

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...7/page007.html

    Face it JMan has 0 chanses of even making this a fight... Winning is out of the question.

    If he does get out something like in Orochimaru case would happen the only diference would be JMan would be missing his head and not his hand like Oro.

    PS. JMan NEVER showed the tools to brake genjutsu. Do post the links to the instances where he got out of genjutsu.
    Last edited by xXan; July 11, 2011 at 11:16 AM.

  16. #164
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Quote:
    It shows that Jiraiya is indeed capable of breaking a Itachi level genjutsu if anything at all. The only difference between breaking another and yourself out is simply at the realising part which I can understand since Itachi is pretty good at being subtle at those stuff as well. Though to say that Jiraiya is completely defenseless due to others being caught is inaccurate IMO since Jiraiya clearly have shown the tools.
    No, they are completely different things. In order to break out of a genjutsu, one needs the circulation of new chakra or intense pain (IIRC). Breaking someone out of a genjutsu is infinitely easier than doing it yourself because you are the outside force either bestowing pain or a new chakra interference. When alone though, this becomes incredibly more difficult if not impossible for most shinobi. Though, if he was already in Sage Mode when Itachi tried to genjutsu him Ma and Pa could inject their chakra into him to break the genjutsu. But this is highly presumptuous as it requires that A) Itachi not try to genjutsu Jiraiya before he enters Sage Mode which is highly unlikely as it is often his first move and B) The genjutsu does not also effect Ma and Pa.

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  18. #165
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    Re: Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

    Quote Originally Posted by White Silver King View Post
    No, they are completely different things. In order to break out of a genjutsu, one needs the circulation of new chakra or intense pain (IIRC). Breaking someone out of a genjutsu is infinitely easier than doing it yourself because you are the outside force either bestowing pain or a new chakra interference. When alone though, this becomes incredibly more difficult if not impossible for most shinobi. Though, if he was already in Sage Mode when Itachi tried to genjutsu him Ma and Pa could inject their chakra into him to break the genjutsu. But this is highly presumptuous as it requires that A) Itachi not try to genjutsu Jiraiya before he enters Sage Mode which is highly unlikely as it is often his first move and B) The genjutsu does not also effect Ma and Pa.
    Aparently the elder bat agrees with you:

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...7/page006.html

    I have no idea why people belive braking someone else out of genjutsu = you can do it to yourself ... Makes no sense to me at all.

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