Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

[M3J]

Here is no rule that ma can only summon if there is no enemy nearby, or the person/toad that she wants to summon is standing on an "X." she was at Konoha when she summoned Naruto and a gang o toads, and gamakichi ( i think it was him, i am away from the manga) was in Myoubokuzan when he summoned Naruto for the elder sage. Your comment about that is BS, it would be like me saying Sasuke cannot summon his bird if he is standing on firm ground, A's we only saw him summon while in the air, or that Sasuke can only smon his bird while on the run in the land of samurai, and not in konoha because he never has.

I know it's BS, I'm just using similar style to what you guys use. "Jiraiya beats Itachi because Itachi said so, although we never saw them fight!" No toad has summoned anyone in battle, thus it can be indicated that they can't. Naruto could have done with Jiraiya's help, Minato could have used Jiraiya, Jiraiya could have been reverse summoned, yet none of those happened.

With the rule of human summoning animal, we know Sasuke can summon his hawk anywhere, but we don't know how it is like for animals summoning humans, at least in battles. I think the toads can summon humans in battle, but there's no proof apart from Ma summoning Naruto before the battle and Kichi, Ma, and Pa summoning Naruto to the mountain.

[benelori]

EDIT: Just out of curiosity: how many posters not on Jiraiya's nuts actually enjoyed the tournament?

...I did, although it's probably because I followed every single thread, so I kinda have the whole picture...as I said in my earlier posts, the debates were pretty good, I actually enjoyed the low-tier more, because of it...what was kind of a let down...Naruto's sudden boom in the manga, which made him quite overpowered...I'm still thinking whether if we did right, letting him with all these new Kyuubi mode feats...I mean the debate would've been probably better if 6tails speed would've been considered, and not something above Raikage...sigh...I dunno

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:53 PM ----------

Also, because of the fact that the entire discussion seems a bit redundant, regarding votes, fan influence, bad or good arguments, I would like to post the prediction of the staff, which kinda influenced the match-ups as well...I'm curious what's your opinion about this

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

I think the biggest surprises were Jiraiya and Chouji, who had better evolution in the tournament contrary to what was predicted

Also I would like everyone to loosen the tension up a bit...thanks

[3c]

Rofl, Chouji was a huge surprise. I remember when we put him against Sakura it was like "hey, this will be a fun match. Chouji surely stands a fair chance. It's taijutsu vs taijutsu and both have amazing strength. Fun match." and then suddenly he went uber-butterfly mode and it was like "oh, this won't go as expected"

If one thing was kind of boring, it was Minato's first matches. However making every match really interesting was almost impossible when match ups and wins/losses needed to be considered, as seen in those matches as well as the final for example.

Oh and wtf happened to Dan, that was such a disappointment. We wanted him to fight Kakashi but the guy decided to get sealed into a barrier and never show off any nice moves. What a let down.

[jdw]

@ninjabot: But you can't "correct" the result, you don't have the means or authority to change anything, and there is nothing to correct.

[Silvers Rayleigh]

Love it. I must say I was surprised with the jiraiya vs sasuke battle results but that was to be expected.
I really can't wait for the next one, hopefully itachi and the sauce will rightfully win next time.
Lol who am I kidding they will get trolled next time too

[ninjabot]

@ninjabot: But you can't "correct" the result, you don't have the means or authority to change anything, and there is nothing to correct.

I'm not trying to correct the events of the tournament, that's a waste of time because I don't have the authority to do so, like you said. And I've already made one correction to your argument. You claim not to care to try to distance yourself from those of us that do. I proved it to be a lie. I do however have the means to drag this vendetta out into the sun aswell aswell as the means to point out the true reasons Jiraiya won. It's working swimmingly actually, as one of your cheerleaders already owned up to enjoying the trolling.

To be honest, I couldn't have hoped for a better reaction to prove one of my points. Now everyone can see that fun had nothing to do with it outside of seeing your favorite characters win, and seeing characters you dislike (aswell as fans of said character) fail and get angry. I'll be honest with you though: Had Sasuke won and you started whining like you did when your first attempt to fasttrack Jiraiya through the tournament on a technicality didn't work, then I'd likely try to dismiss it as sour grapes the way you guys are doing to us. The major difference being no one hates Jiraiya, and practically EVERYONE hates Sasuke, so Sasuke's victory would've been earned.

EDIT: @benelori: Yeah. That outcome would've been a tad less outrageous based solely on Sasuke vs. Jiraiya and Madara vs. Itachi. Granted Itachi vs. Minato would be a better match than Madara vs. Minato, as Madara vs. Minato already happened and this is basically the same Madara from the past, not the new Madara (because giving Naruto all of his current power-ups was fine but giving Madara his wasn't for some reason...) but atleast Madara had a defense against Genjutsu *shrug*

[Delbi]

Been working a lot so haven't had a chance to post, but here is my take on this whole tourney.

The fact that the majority of voters never posted in the forum goes to show that this tourney was in fact just a popularity contest.

These people that even voted, didn't even bother to like or thank posts so that to me just proves that they just clicked on who they thought would win, and left the forum not bothering to even read or post an argument in the thread.

The fact that Hashirama was allowed to defeat Orochimaru and Jiraiya defeat Sasuke just drives home how biased some people were, especially for Sasuke. Now, do I like Sauske? Yes. Do I think he wold have won the whole tourney? No, I never thought he would, since seeing Naruto's knew abilities I thought he would pretty much cake walk the entire tourney unless he had to face Madara or Itachi, who would be my other two favorites to win.

But that doesn't dismiss the fact that his loss to Jiraiya was never even proved by anyone. Arguments that were simply asinine, or made no sense were given in favor of Jiraiya winning, and his "defense" from Sasuke's jutsu was also laughable.

Then we had Hashirama vs. Orochimaru, when I'm pretty sure not one person gave a way Hashirama could kill Orochimaru.

Some people complained about Minato vs. Itachi, with Itachi losing, and while I really thought Itachi should have won, the fact remains that if anyone could defeat him, it would probably be Minato. (Itachi's epicness is now the stuff of legend, if anyone wishes to hate on him you should just admit you hate him and everything with a Sharigan).

Overall, I think a tourney like this can't be run simply because it is a popularity contest at the end of the day, and anyone who wishes to deny that is simply blind or bias.

---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

And on a seperate note, with Shusui's eye, Itachi would be unbeatable. Because if even ITACHI can fall to genjutsu, than any ninja can. Shusui's eye is even more haxed than Izanagi.

[Murdock]

Been working a lot so haven't had a chance to post, but here is my take on this whole tourney.

The fact that the majority of voters never posted in the forum goes to show that this tourney was in fact just a popularity contest.

These people that even voted, didn't even bother to like or thank posts so that to me just proves that they just clicked on who they thought would win, and left the forum not bothering to even read or post an argument in the thread.

The fact that Hashirama was allowed to defeat Orochimaru and Jiraiya defeat Sasuke just drives home how biased some people were, especially for Sasuke. Now, do I like Sauske? Yes. Do I think he wold have won the whole tourney? No, I never thought he would, since seeing Naruto's knew abilities I thought he would pretty much cake walk the entire tourney unless he had to face Madara or Itachi, who would be my other two favorites to win.

But that doesn't dismiss the fact that his loss to Jiraiya was never even proved by anyone. Arguments that were simply asinine, or made no sense were given in favor of Jiraiya winning, and his "defense" from Sasuke's jutsu was also laughable.

Then we had Hashirama vs. Orochimaru, when I'm pretty sure not one person gave a way Hashirama could kill Orochimaru.

Some people complained about Minato vs. Itachi, with Itachi losing, and while I really thought Itachi should have won, the fact remains that if anyone could defeat him, it would probably be Minato. (Itachi's epicness is now the stuff of legend, if anyone wishes to hate on him you should just admit you hate him and everything with a Sharigan).

Overall, I think a tourney like this can't be run simply because it is a popularity contest at the end of the day, and anyone who wishes to deny that is simply blind or bias.

---------- Post added at 05:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------

And on a seperate note, with Shusui's eye, Itachi would be unbeatable. Because if even ITACHI can fall to genjutsu, than any ninja can. Shusui's eye is even more haxed than Izanagi.

well the fact that hashirama beat bee was kinda downfall for me. I mean we've seen so little of him there wasn't just enough to say he would beat bee

[DaHeroic1]

And on a seperate note, with Shusui's eye, Itachi would be unbeatable. Because if even ITACHI can fall to genjutsu, than any ninja can. Shusui's eye is even more haxed than Izanagi.

Yeah it's funny too bc if we were to have a redo of the tournament then Danzo should of won lol. In this type of tournament where every character gets a redo after each match Danzo would use that hax eye over and over again. He wouldn't even need to unseal his arm and use izanagi. Their is no countering Shisui's jutsu as it has been shown in the manga that the even Itachi is vulnerable to it and it can even be used while covered up. With this tech the likes of Naruto,Itachi,Minato, Nagato,etc would be foddler to this ability lol. All in all though the tournament was a fun little debate but mabey for the next for voting it would of been better if u had to atleast post 1 sentence like Naruto wins or Hashirama wins to cast a vote. If a person has time to click a button then they can write one sentence most likely but all in all tournament was fun.

[M3J]

No one has proven to be immune to genjutsu. Itachi can be put under genjutsu as much as Naruto can, but unlike Naruto he'd have an easier time breaking out of it. I never really understood "HURR DURR MINATO IMMUNE TO GENJUTSU" or saying anyone is immune to genjutsu. If anyone would be immune to it, it'd be Itachi, but seeing as how he's not (amirite Kurenai?), then it's likely no one is. Though, did Itachi even try to break out of Shisui's genjutsu?


Anyway, will there be a banner or graphic for Naruto as the winner of tourney? :O

From what we've seen, Bee could beat Hashirama, and Hashirama had no way of beating Orochimaru. Orochimaru himself had a bad matchup in Deidara, who could have bombed Orochimaru internally.

[tobeulp]

The manga disagrees with you. A simple glance is all that's needed to place someone in a genjutsu. Sasuke placed Deidara in a genjutsu with just a backwards glance from far away. So not only do we have an example of a genjutrsu being used without direct eye contact, we also see it being used from a distance. If Sasuke can do it with his skills, then Itachi should have no trouble doing likewise. Add to that the fact that the Sharingan would allow them to know ahead of time when their opponent would be in the right position for the genjutsu to be used.

Deidara is not even moving or anything... Sasuke focus on Deidara so Sasuke cast on him that is not Deidara glancing... And the manga had two scenario where Itachi needs to set things up for him to use a Tsukuyomi or SGH and those people are not immobile but ninja's that are fighting back....
Sharingan can know ahead of time but Sasuke had a hard time with Raikage but Minato trash Raikage so that will not be valid IMO... The thing is Minato is as smart or smarter than Itachi in Battle preparation and faster than Sasuke and Bee so replicating what he did on Sasuke and Bee will be much harder IMO...
The thing is SGH and Tsukuyomi is still need to be casted if you think it is like Medusa's eye where you don't need to cast anything one who just glance it will be turned into stone then I don't have anything to discuss to you...

[Shaunlim]

To be honest, I never really looked at that as I didn't care, but I was kinda surprised Sasuke had a lot of votes. But if it counts, I argued for Sasori.

Supporter sounds much better than fanboy. :P

Of course it does :P

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Well, the whinament is over. Loool. Didn't really care much for the upper tier, but the lower tier was fun and more interesting. I think, with the way the tournament was set up the right character, won in each case tier. I think Kimimaro was definitely the strongest character in the lower tier. And i think with Naruto new speed on top of how strong he was before it was hard to pick against him in the final match. I think the limit and unknowningness of characters like Madara and Nagato (and Harashima) affected the upper tier.

Overall the tourney was fun (at least until the whinegate began). I think it was to early to have the tournament, i would have prefer it to be after the war. And at the end of the manga would be the ideal time to have the tournament and i hope we have one then.

Also this tournament was a good thing for the Naruto manga overall. I don't know about y'all, but this tournament somewhat, a little bit renew my lost interest in the manga. It made the manga interesting to me again. If this manga fail at all else, it will always be number one when it come to characters. In no other manga are the characters more interesting and do readers get attarched to them like this one.

[Nicholas.Sama]

Hmm...
If I could make one change in this tournament, I would have all the voting take place after a few days of discussion, in order to prevent premature voting.

I lied. Two other changes would be: Kick out Hashirama, and replace him with Kimimaro in top tier round.

[Rikudou King]

The biggest flaws in the top tier tournament was obviously that new info was introduced as the battles were going on and after they had ended. I'm sure few would have believed Hashirama could defeat Kirabi once they saw him react to Minato's Hiraishin. That's a serious speed feat. We could have also done some of the pairings better. But the lower tier's only up-set was Chouji and even then it still ended up as predicted. Hopefully after some time have pasted and the next databook has come out, we can do a new tournament.

Deidara is not even moving or anything... Sasuke focus on Deidara so Sasuke cast on him that is not Deidara glancing... And the manga had two scenario where Itachi needs to set things up for him to use a Tsukuyomi or SGH and those people are not immobile but ninja's that are fighting back....
Sharingan can know ahead of time but Sasuke had a hard time with Raikage but Minato trash Raikage so that will not be valid IMO... The thing is Minato is as smart or smarter than Itachi in Battle preparation and faster than Sasuke and Bee so replicating what he did on Sasuke and Bee will be much harder IMO...
The thing is SGH and Tsukuyomi is still need to be casted if you think it is like Medusa's eye where you don't need to cast anything one who just glance it will be turned into stone then I don't have anything to discuss to you...

Deidara moving or something has nothing to do with it. Deidara was miles away, nearly a dot. Yet Sasuke was able to place him in a genjutsu without having to fully turn around or anything to establish full eye contact. Sasuke did it by barely turning his head. That's a glance, which disproves the opinion that direct eye contact would be needed. Itachi doesn't require any more set-up then activating his MS. We saw him catch Sasuke twice in Tsukuyomi without any pause and Sasuke actually had the tool to counter.

Sasuke didn't have a hard time following Ee until much later, and even then Sasuke was still able to locate Ee before the actual hit was landed. Minato "trash" Ee because of Hiraishin, which still would require Minato to look at Itachi to see where he's going and locate his target. And Kirabi has shown that he's nearly as fast as his brother, plus had an internal partner to warn him and he was still caught. While a genjutsu needs to be cast, you're missing the fact that with the Sharingan, they will be prepared ahead of time to cast it. Their prediction ability means they'll know ahead of time that Minato is visible, and thus able to cast t straight away.