Naruto Tournament Discussion Thread V.2

[UchihaHunter]

Naruto had the same look A's Minato when Raikage closed in, and neither was really caring. As for this "grimace" is that the new way Kishi displays shock?

You can easily see that Naruto didn't have the same look, but please carry on...I have to think at this point you're trolling in regards to Minato not being shocked/surprised/whatever.


On this page, Minato has mouth closed and he looks prepared for an attack.

On this page, you can clearly see his eyes have widened, his mouth is open, etc.

Naruto wasn't shocked the last time that Raikage came at him, but he had been shocked multiple times previously.

[xXan]

Naruto had the same look A's Minato when Raikage closed in, and neither was really caring. As for this "grimace" is that the new way Kishi displays shock?

@silvers: I am glad you think you know the manga. Many congrats.

So you are saying that Naruto's face is the same as Minato's in those pics? If you ask me you need glasses ...

[hakuthehedgehog]

IMO the first time Minato was clearly surprised/shocked when Raikage attacked, but why are we discussing this? I mean, he did dodge Raikage's fastest attack, and while I don't believe that Kunai would own Raikage, once Raikage was tagged in his back, Minato could repeatedly use rasengan or some other sealing jutsu to eventually defeat Raikage.

As for Bee reacting: if Minato wanted, he could appear above Bee and put a Kunai in his brain before he could do a thing.

[Silvers Rayleigh]

The reason why we are wasting our time discussting this is because some minato fan can't
not accept that he was shock, for him minato can never be shock or surprised he has to be cool at all times lol.
Talk about a cult follower

[bhasty]

@bhasty



Nop. Look here Raikage moves to the left of Sasuke and Sasuke FOLLOWS him with his eyes, the eyes are looking to his left:
http://www.mangareader.net/93-31674-...apter-463.html

Then look here:
http://www.mangareader.net/93-31674-...apter-463.html

Raikage charges behind Sasuke and Sasuke uses Amaterasu BEFORE the sound. Then Raikages hits the ground and stops. Sasuke reacted to the fact that Raikage dispeared from his FIELD OF VISION and he was damn sure he would pop behind him so the shield of flames. Sasuke reacted to that way before Raikage was 1cm from his face. This shows actualy better reaction times then Minato.
So yes Sasuke reacted FASTER then Minato. Its irrelevant what happened AFTER the wall of flames as Raikage was FORCED to stop his attack because of Sasuke's action (and no sound to give it away lol).



God no. Raikage charges Susano was active but the instant action (like Minato teleporting) is creating Amaterasu on Susano.

Its clear Amaterasu was NOT active:
http://www.mangareader.net/93-31674-...apter-463.html



LOL! Minato himself showed NO SPEED. So that is the point. Minato teleported away (instant action) and Sasuke uses Amaterasu (instant action). Teleporting away is ACTIVATING A JUTSU and not actualy speed like in movement. Minato showed no actual speed that is above Sasuke in that encounter. Also a genin would NOT be able to make Raikage lose a hand and comiting suicide moment later ... So in other words what you stated there is just hating on Sasuke.



Same thing as above. Sasuke activated a instant jutsu and so had Minato. Minato was unable to move away with his speed. So because of that there feat is the same. Its all about speed to move away and reaction times and Sasuke actualy showed better ones as to activate Amaterasu when Raikage had a greater distance from him then in Minato's case and ST jutsu.

Minato himself was like a statue to Raikage charging and had to escape by using a jutsu that moves him from point A to B instantly. Sasuke on the other hand reacted with the same speed by activating another insant jutsu.
One has a movement based jutsu and the other has a shield type. Based on that there reaction times and actualy speed (aside from activating a jutsu to teleport away) is the same.

1. Yes, sasuke seen raikage move to his left so basically he will going to look into his left side. But you failed to notice that raikage was already at the back of sasuke whereas sasuke was still looking where the hell is raikage..

2. Sasuke activate his amaterasu just to depend himself. We don't know if it was his plan to counter raikage's speed or he just activate it by luck. If you found that sasuke was able to activate his amaterasu because of his reaction on raikage's speed then good luck. If you're going to analyze that scenario, sasuke was activate his amaterasu just to protect himself. Not because he has the reaction speed to counter raikage;s speed but it was clearly a luck, or should i say it was the best thing he should do at that moment without knowing that raikage was already at his back.

3. Sasuke can't follow raikage's movement at all.. Karin even stated that it's imposible for sasuke to follow raikage's movement,,

4. Teleporting is a speed.. Kishi already said that.. That minato's hiraishin is a speed. You can argue all you want but you're just stating your opinion, and im going to believe what kishi has been stated.. HIRAISHIN is a speed..

5. Honestly, you sound as if you're already seen the true speed of minato.. But im going to believe on raikage's opinion. That minato is much faster. Not by his hiraishin but it;s his actual speed.. Raikage knows how to counter minato's hiraishin and yet he called minato as faster than him.? It doens't make any sense.. We've just only seen their first encounter, so saying that minato doesn't show any speed is just a haters comment.. but anyway, it was your opinion though..

[UchihaHunter]

IMO the first time Minato was clearly surprised/shocked when Raikage attacked, but why are we discussing this? I mean, he did dodge Raikage's fastest attack, and while I don't believe that Kunai would own Raikage, once Raikage was tagged in his back, Minato could repeatedly use rasengan or some other sealing jutsu to eventually defeat Raikage.

As for Bee reacting: if Minato wanted, he could appear above Bee and put a Kunai in his brain before he could do a thing.

Did I miss when this "put a kunai in X's brain" became a popular saying? It's just annoying reading that every time a quick ninja is involved. We saw Bee react to Minato teleporting to him, despite the impression being that he was going to continue his fight with the Raikage, so I don't see how he would "put a kunai in his brain before he could do a thing."

As to why we're discussing the initial shock, I think the initial point was to show that similar to how Minato reacted to the Raikage's fastest attack, Sasuke reacted to the Raikage's level 2 cloak + shunshin. So basically, he showed similar reaction speeds to Minato (although I think some people were making the argument that Sasuke's was superior...I am not making that argument), but that he couldn't move in a way to counter the Raikage since he doesn't possess an S/T tech that activates that quickly.

[jdw]

The reason why we are wasting our time discussting this is because some minato fan can't
not accept that he was shock, for him minato can never be shock or surprised he has to be cool at all times lol.
Talk about a cult follower

To be honest, when people are impressed with speed or shocked by it in this manga, they tend to either say it, have sweatdrops, or exclamation points/question marks. None of that occurred here. He was so unimpressed and unconcerned with Raikage that he turned his back on him and calmly walked away.

[Shaunlim]

As to why we're discussing the initial shock, I think the initial point was to show that similar to how Minato reacted to the Raikage's fastest attack, Sasuke reacted to the Raikage's level 2 cloak + shunshin. So basically, he showed similar reaction speeds to Minato (although I think some people were making the argument that Sasuke's was superior...I am not making that argument), but that he couldn't move in a way to counter the Raikage since he doesn't possess an S/T tech that activates that quickly.

I wouldn't say that it is similar. Minato reacted to Raikage's fastest attack while Sasuke reacted to Raikage disappearing from sight after awhile. Had Raikage went in for the attack straight away like he did against Minato, Sasuke might not have been able to react. Big difference IMO considering the fact that Raikage actually went around to Sasuke's back as opposed charging straight in.

[xXan]

@bhasty

1. Yes, sasuke seen raikage move to his left so basically he will going to look into his left side. But you failed to notice that raikage was already at the back of sasuke whereas sasuke was still looking where the hell is raikage..

You still don't get it lol. Sasuke can FOLLOW him with his eyes but NOT his body. Its the same as Minato. Sasuke's reaction times where good enough to replicate Minato's feat by using a instant jutsu, Amaterasu.

2. Sasuke activate his amaterasu just to depend himself. We don't know if it was his plan to counter raikage's speed or he just activate it by luck. If you found that sasuke was able to activate his amaterasu because of his reaction on raikage's speed then good luck. If you're going to analyze that scenario, sasuke was activate his amaterasu just to protect himself. Not because he has the reaction speed to counter raikage;s speed but it was clearly a luck, or should i say it was the best thing he should do at that moment without knowing that raikage was already at his back.

Ehem.. Read what Karin states:
http://www.mangareader.net/93-31674-...apter-463.html

3. Sasuke can't follow raikage's movement at all.. Karin even stated that it's imposible for sasuke to follow raikage's movement,,

Sasuke followed him with his eyes before disapearing behind him.. Yes he can follow him but not move his body fast enough to do shit about it. Karin states if Sasuke can't follow his movement and not follow his movement with his eyes... Its the same thing as Sasuke vs Lee in part one.

4. Teleporting is a speed.. Kishi already said that.. That minato's hiraishin is a speed. You can argue all you want but you're just stating your opinion, and im going to believe what kishi has been stated.. HIRAISHIN is a speed..

Its not opinion its fact. You problem is that you can't comprehend it. Minato used a instant teleportation move to get away and he never MOVED HIS BODY under his own power out of the way. This shows that his reaction times are only good enough to move in direct correlation with Hirashin. Because of this his reaction times and body moving speed (not activating a jutsu) is the same as Sasuke's. So in other words ignoring Hirashim is just as good at reacting to Raikage as Sasuke.

5. Honestly, you sound as if you're already seen the true speed of minato.. But im going to believe on raikage's opinion. That minato is much faster. Not by his hiraishin but it;s his actual speed.. Raikage knows how to counter minato's hiraishin and yet he called minato as faster than him.? It doens't make any sense.. We've just only seen their first encounter, so saying that minato doesn't show any speed is just a haters comment.. but anyway, it was your opinion though..

What Minato showed in the manga is his best up to the moment he shows better. Raikage never stated Minato is FASTER then him. You can't even comprehend Raikage's words. Those words have 2 posible meanings.
1- That Minato was faster then him.
2- That Minato was just as fast but now that Minato is dead he is the fastest dude in the world.

You don't even have a clear reference to back your words with.

[UchihaHunter]

2. Sasuke activate his amaterasu just to depend himself. We don't know if it was his plan to counter raikage's speed or he just activate it by luck. If you found that sasuke was able to activate his amaterasu because of his reaction on raikage's speed then good luck. If you're going to analyze that scenario, sasuke was activate his amaterasu just to protect himself. Not because he has the reaction speed to counter raikage;s speed but it was clearly a luck, or should i say it was the best thing he should do at that moment without knowing that raikage was already at his back.

This may be difficult for you to understand, but the covering of Susanoo with Amaterasu was a reaction to the Raikage's speed. The very act of covering Susanoo was a reaction. The point was that Sasuke doesn't have Hiraishin. Therefore his reaction to the Raikage's speed wouldn't be the same as Minato's. It's not as if Minato instantly created a Rasengan and counterattacked the Raikage. His reaction was to use Hiraishin. Hiraishin's speed enabled him to perform a counterattack. His actual attack (the swinging of the kunai) was fast, but apparently not fast enough to cut the Raikage before Bee countered.

4. Teleporting is a speed.. Kishi already said that.. That minato's hiraishin is a speed. You can argue all you want but you're just stating your opinion, and im going to believe what kishi has been stated.. HIRAISHIN is a speed..

5. Honestly, you sound as if you're already seen the true speed of minato.. But im going to believe on raikage's opinion. That minato is much faster. Not by his hiraishin but it;s his actual speed.. Raikage knows how to counter minato's hiraishin and yet he called minato as faster than him.? It doens't make any sense.. We've just only seen their first encounter, so saying that minato doesn't show any speed is just a haters comment.. but anyway, it was your opinion though..

I feel like the speed argument is just over semantics. Hiraishin moves Minato from Point A to Point B. In that sense, yes, it is speed. HOWEVER, it doesn't do this in a traditional sense. This is where the space/time aspect comes into place. Unlike a fast car or jet or indeed the Raikage when cloaked with the Raiton Armor, Minato does not physically traverse the distance between Point A and Point B. Teleportation does not function in this manner. Essentially, he exists at Point A, then suddenly exists at Point B. He doesn't travel between Point A and Point B. This is where xXan and others don't count Hiraishin as speed. For all intents and purposes, Hiraishin functions as a speed tech. Again, Minato uses it to move from Point A to Point B. However, it's a space/time technique before it is a speed technique, as it instantly places him at Point B.

It's sorta difficult to explain it in words, but essentially, Minato doesn't travel. It's not a "hater's comment," it's the truth. The databook itself says it's closer to a summoning technique. When Naruto summons Bunta, he doesn't physically move from the mountain to where Naruto is. He just appears. That's what Hiraishin is, a space/time technique. The way that Minato uses it enables it to be interpreted as a speed tech. Minato's reaction times are stellar as well, as he was able to react to the Raikage's speed to activate Hiraishin. He activates it twice in the time that the Raikage is attacking! That's probably Minato's best speed aspect; his reaction times are ridiculous. Hiraishin itself, however, doesn't function as a speed technique in the way that shunshin does. We've seen that other villages continued to refer to Hiraishin as a shunshin technique; this, coupled with Minato's use of Hiraishin, would be why it's referred to as part of Minato's speed. In a technical sense, it is a part of his speed; Minato uses it to perform high-speed combat that no other shinobi can replicate (unless Naruto is now moving at that speed). Hiraishin isn't speed though, that's why it's referred to as a space/time technique, that's why it's comparable to Kuchiyose no jutsu.

---------- Post added at 09:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------

To be honest, when people are impressed with speed or shocked by it in this manga, they tend to either say it, have sweatdrops, or exclamation points/question marks. None of that occurred here. He was so unimpressed and unconcerned with Raikage that he turned his back on him and calmly walked away.

And the Raikage was so unimpressed and unconcerned that he was ready to try again, knowing where the kunai were.

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 AM ----------

I wouldn't say that it is similar. Minato reacted to Raikage's fastest attack while Sasuke reacted to Raikage disappearing from sight after awhile. Had Raikage went in for the attack straight away like he did against Minato, Sasuke might not have been able to react. Big difference IMO considering the fact that Raikage actually went around to Sasuke's back as opposed charging straight in.

If the Raikage went for a surprise attack from behind, as opposed to charging head-on, what's to say that Minato would've been able to dodge him in time? He wasn't able to bypass Bee's tentacle, he merely settled for placing the tag (that I think it's fairly certain he wanted to put on the Raikage) on Bee's tentacle. He was even shocked by Bee's tentacle being there (and I'm sure even jdw can't disagree with this one lol)

If anything, isn't a straight-on attack easier to counter than one from another direction?


Edit: @jdw - Considering that Minato wasn't going saying anything, I guess he opened his mouth for the lulz then?

[Shaunlim]

If the Raikage went for a surprise attack from behind, as opposed to charging head-on, what's to say that Minato would've been able to dodge him in time? He wasn't able to bypass Bee's tentacle, he merely settled for placing the tag (that I think it's fairly certain he wanted to put on the Raikage) on Bee's tentacle. He was even shocked by Bee's tentacle being there (and I'm sure even jdw can't disagree with this one lol)

Does it really matter? It's two different things. Fact is Minato reacted to Raikage's fastest attack while Sasuke didn't because Raikage didn't use his fastest attack against Sasuke. Why is Bee even here when I didn't even mentioned Bee?

[jdw]

And the Raikage was so unimpressed and unconcerned that he was ready to try again, knowing where the kunai were.

He may as well have been unimpressed and unconcerned, but he was shocked as hell and had to be rescued from being put in a wheelchair. So in the end it isn't looking good for Raikage. I think Minato was far more impressed with Bee. He basically looked past Raikage and focused on Bee after seeing a bit of Bee's talents.

[xXan]

Does it really matter? It's two different things. Fact is Minato reacted to Raikage's fastest attack while Sasuke didn't because Raikage didn't use his fastest attack against Sasuke. Why is Bee even here when I didn't even mentioned Bee?

Going behind his back is going in his blind spot decreasing the succes of any any defensive action like it happened to Raikage and Madara(Minato's attack). Raikage had to make 2 more steps but disapearing from sight is a big +. Also the speed was probably the same as he powered up like hell and used that in corelation with shunsin no jutsu.

[UchihaHunter]

He may as well have been unimpressed and unconcerned, but he was shocked as hell and had to be rescued from being put in a wheelchair. So in the end it isn't looking good for Raikage. I think Minato was far more impressed with Bee. He basically looked past Raikage and focused on Bee after seeing a bit of Bee's talents.

Yep, put in a wheelchair by a kunai. While covered in Raiton Armor. Shocked as hell? He was shocked, but his apology to Bee and concern for Bee's status show that he wasn't worried at all. Considering that Minato knew that A was going to be the Raikage, it's not really surprise for him to be skilled. Considering how most jinchurriki turn out though, it's a surprise for Bee to be willing to protect A, etc. Minato even notes that it's not Bee's talent he's impressed with.

[bhasty]

The reason why we are wasting our time discussting this is because some minato fan can't
not accept that he was shock, for him minato can never be shock or surprised he has to be cool at all times lol.
Talk about a cult follower

And you're not even sure if he was really shock or not.. Because minato never said any words to confirm that he was shock at all.. And i think it was kishi's fault.. Because he forgot to show that minato was indeed shock by raikage's punch just like this one (!) or a comment from minato itself for saying "he was damn fast" " im shocked" .. but kishi never shows that. So basically, minato never shock at all..

Maybe minato was just look like he was shock by seeing how big the raikage's hand. And if minato's eyes was indeed a sign of being shock then itachi and sasuke was also in shock everytime they use their sharingan.