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View Poll Results: Who wins?

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142. You may not vote on this poll
  • Kakashi

    49 34.51%
  • Jiraiya

    93 65.49%
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Thread: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

  1. #271
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    BTW, M3J if my list is flawed (putting Naruto above Kakashi and Jiraiya), why does Nagato/Pain agree with me and disagree with you? Is it because he is enhanced?

    Manga facts hurt when they prove you wrong

    Are you saying you know better than Nagato/Pain? Hmm?
    Yes, I'm saying I know better than Nagato/Pain. We see Naruto getting information that Jiraiya and Kakashi never got, and Naruto never got blindsided or blocked at vital moments like Jiraiya and Kakashi did. You cab use what the characters say as manga facts if you want, I'll just use manga actions and statements to support me. Deal?

    Statements aren't necessarily manga facts, they're opinions (and in many cases true for the time being).
    Last edited by benelori; July 17, 2011 at 04:48 AM.

  2. #272
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DarkPrinceRevan's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    i thought i was all but spelled out in the manga that the sharingan enhances you physically to adapt to the aforementioned abilities it grants.

    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...0/page006.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...0/page007.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...0/page008.html
    http://read.mangashare.com/Naruto/ch...0/page009.html

    sasuke's body adjusted accordingly with the sharingan's evolution and he described it the same way the curse mark works and we know it boost your physical capabilities when activated
    Last edited by DarkPrinceRevan; July 17, 2011 at 01:42 AM.

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  4. #273
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    I am not downplaying Kakashi. I am combating crazy myths that are popping up:
    1. Base Kakashi fought Pain
    2. Kakashi faced two Pains basically alone
    Why should I let these myths stand?
    Kakashi didn't receive any enhancement to his body, just his ability to fight. If you prefer, Kakashi never fought with improved body.

    I don't recall anyone saying that. I anyway was saying or trying to say that Kakashi faced Deva by himself and Asura and Deva mostly by himself. Backups joined later while Asura was getting shocked by the lightning bunshin.

  5. #274
    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Yes, I'm saying I know better than Nagato/Pain. We see Naruto getting information that Jiraiya and Kakashi never got, and Naruto never got blindsided or blocked at vital moments like Jiraiya and Kakashi did. You cab use what the characters say as manga facts if you want, I'll just use manga actions and statements to support me. Deal?

    Statements aren't necessarily manga facts, they're opinions (and in many cases true for the time being).
    In a case like this, it is opinion but it is also manga fact because he is Pain speaking for Pain on things he actually experienced himself! If Naruto says Ramen is his favorite food, it is Naruto's opinion of foods but it is a fact with respect to Naruto. If Pain says Naruto is his toughest adversary, he is the damn person fighting, who would know better? You? (1) He has accurate information on his battle with Jiraiya. (2) He has accurate information on his battle with Kakashi, and (3) he has up to the minute information on his battle with Naruto. And at the point of the scan, he said no one has countered Pain to this degree. Unless Nagato had some forgotten Pain fights, the debate is over: When it comes to Pain, Naruto outperformed Jiraiya and Kakashi, and everyone else.
    Last edited by benelori; July 17, 2011 at 04:48 AM.

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  7. #275
    Banned 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Jiraiya had a major boost in speed and strength and still required Ma and Pa to actually defeat those three. Kakashi took on two with just his normal speed and strength. All the while figuring out Deva Path's ability and it's weakness. Naruto while in Sage Mode was also having as much trouble as Kakashi against Deva Path and he had the boost of Sage Mode and the toads. The fact that the normal Kakashi could match the skills of a Sage Powered Naruto and Jiraiya is what makes what he did so impressive.
    I disagree.. Kakashi could never match the skills of sage powered naruto and jiraiya. kakashi's accomplishment is nothing compared to Sage powered naruto and jiraiya's accomplishment. kakashi never defeated the two of the paths alone. Without his backup, then kakashi is good as dead. Infact, kakashi admitted that he can't defeat the two paths.

    Kakashi and sage naruto has the same trouble when fighting deva.? how come.? Sage naruto was fighting not only deva pain but the six paths of pain. And in the end, naruto killed/defeated deva pain. Whereas kakashi never hit deva pain with his attack. Not even once. So kakashi never match the skills of sage/naruto at all.

    Normal naruto was even more powerful than kakashi. Base mode naruto withstand deva pain's power, the ST..

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Considering Jiraiya was threaten by Animal Path in base mode while Kakashi had little problem matching two Paths in the same situation, by all accounts Kakashi should have little problem with base Jiraiya.
    Jiraiya never threaten by animal path. And how come kakashi had a little problem matching the 2 paths.? He can't even land a hit on deva/robot pain. Honestly, you're overstimating kakashi on his fight against the 2 paths. You sound that kakashi has a big accomplishment for facing the 2 paths whereas in reality, kakashi can't do a thing on the paths.

    Kakashi never killed/hit robot pain the way as naruto did.
    Kakashi never hit/killed deva pain the way as naruto did.
    kakashi never killed/hit the 3 paths the way as jiraiya did.

    Overall, kakashi will definitely has a big problem when facing jiraiya. Because jiraiya is a beast and a powerful ninja.

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  9. #276
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Nagato did give Jiraiya the ultimate compliment, no matter how we look at it it says a lot.

    Kakashi, by talking about Jiraiya and how he stood up against Pain was himself pretty much admitting inferiority to him.

    When it comes to fighting Pain, Jiraiya deserves to be declared the winner.


    Although i'll say this much, while Jiraiya was facing 6 paths in the end, God realm wasnt involved like he has been with Kakashi.

    God realm is without a doubt the strongest path, and Kishi kept his powers hidden for plot purpose and thats alright, but Kakashi deserves to be given credit for what he's done.

    It's fair to say that had god realm been involved since the start, Jiraiya would have had a lot more trouble deeling with Pain.

    Jiraiya has more chance against Pain than Kakashi does, i'm sure of it, but when it comes to bashing either side, we need to realise that the circumstances werent exactly the same and not because of the difference in the arsenal of Kakashi and Jiraiya, but the way Pain fought both Jiraiya and Kakashi, without taking into account the ultimate praise that Nagato gave his former sensei, i must say the Jiraiya vs Pain clearly seemed ''kept at bay'' for the sake of not reveilling everything to keep the entity of Pain a mystery for as long as possible. Kishi didnt allow Nagato to go balls to the walls with God realm against Jiraiya like he did with Kakashi, and because of this, i'd say Kakashi deserves a lot more credit than people give him.

    After all, we saw how Naruto and co. vs the Six paths went until God realm was restored.

    Naruto smashed one after an other 5 realms, and when God realm was restored, the 3 boss frogs, Ma, Pa, Naruto and Hinata were taken down by him, it shows the extent of his power and how tricky it is to deal with it, and while it was only for a short time, Kakashi was dealing with the same path who single handly took down Naruto and co. and held his own against both God realm and Asura path.
    Last edited by insid3rkill3r; July 17, 2011 at 01:58 AM.

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  11. #277
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    No he didn't. He hid in a gourd that he managed to either pull one of the Realms inside, or it managed to get in on it's own. Jiraiya was never shown to actually be fighting any realm while one handed. Just hiding.
    Yes he did. When one of the six paths cut jiraiya's arm, all of them was attacking jiraiya head on. All of them has rinnegan, so do you think jiraiya can hid in a gourd without being notice by the six paths.? hell no.. So definitely there's a battle between jiraiya and he six paths.

  12. #278
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Pain may not have known what led Naruto to do so well against him. He may have not known Naruto was given information by Katsuya, whether on Hungry Ghost's power or Deva's power.

    Of course we'd know better. We see things from different point of view while Nagato only sees it from his point of view. If you don't understand this, it's okay. Either way, despite how well or bad Kakashi and Jiraiya did against Pain, it doesn't mean one would curbstomp the other. Jiraiya's pretty smart (despite what someone said) and a great shinobi, as is Kakashi.

    Kakashi has advantages over Jiraiya and Jiraiya has advantages over Kakashi. Whoever wins, it's deserved. Anyway, I'm guessing Jiraiya has the most votes.

  13. #279
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member DementedKirby's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    He had two frogs to help him against three bodies though. Even before the other bodies joined it was three (Jiraiya, Ma, and Pa) vs. Animal Realm. If it weren't for Ma, Jiraiya may not have found the chameleon and ultimately ANimal Realm. His advantage wouldn't have been that great without Sage Mode either.
    Are you serious? You say Jiraiya had to use summons to handle Animal Realm who only uses summons? You're practically admitting that Animal Realm wasn't fighting by itself. Animal Realm used a chameleon to hide from Jiraiya. Yeah, he totally did that on his own. He cornered Jiraiya with a multiplying dog. Yeah, he totally did that on his own. He attacked Jiraiya with a crab, a bull, and a bird. Yeah, he totally did that on his own. Jiraiya had summons, Pain had summons. End of story on the numbers.

    Oh, and as if the Rinnegan - the kekkai genkai of the godly Sage of the Six Paths isn't enough of an advantage for Nagato?

    ---------- Post added at 04:00 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ninjabot View Post
    No he didn't. He hid in a gourd that he managed to either pull one of the Realms inside, or it managed to get in on it's own. Jiraiya was never shown to actually be fighting any realm while one handed. Just hiding.
    Oh, so everything that happens offpanel in the manga never happens? Gaara didn't go into Shukaku Cloak and own the Sound genin? Maki didn't kill Hayate? Orochimaru didn't kill the 4th Kazekage? And that's just examples from the Sound + Sand invasion of Konoha. I could go on and on. In fact, let's make it more relevant to the discussion. Kakashi appears under some rubble while Deva Path stands above him and surrounded by Konoha fodder. Oh wait, I can't assume that Pain took care of all of them because it all happened offpanel. That was probably Chouji who farted and brought the buildings down on everyone.
    Last edited by DementedKirby; July 17, 2011 at 03:04 AM.

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  15. #280
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member kakashidad's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Man, it's all because a choice is been asked to be made.Do you like kakashi or Jiraiya more?Where
    folks should be looking at WHO IS THE ACKNOWLEDGED BETTER SHINOBI...and that's not hype.
    Hype is used or brought into the discussion when it looks like your favorite charactor is going to get
    the mother of all ''curbstomps'' pmsl.

    Jiraiya even by kakashi own standing is immense..legendary!Yes he was getting on,still.Itachi even
    though been a double agent suggested that he and kisame would get a draw at best and total
    anihalation at worst(i'm teasing).Kakashi achievement against god realm pales into insignificance
    compared to jiraiya.And that's a FACT.No matter how one tries to ''spin it''.

    Without jiraiya SELFLESS sacrifice.Kakashi would of been dead in an instance!same goes for naruto too
    if you like.That's how the story goes.Accept it.Kakashi style of entering combat is pretty standard.It's
    a jonin method.Use clones to gain info on your opponet and then engage the best possible fighting tactic's.Jiraiya also can employ this method.He just did not when fighting the 6 paths of pain.All this running and hiding crap is ..just that crap pmsl.This is not a sport event where you have a referee lol.

    Jiraiya vastly superior chakra reserves.Enable him to have a much greater advantage over kakashi,
    regardless of his smarts,Jiraiya smart too.If and it's a massive big IF.If kakashi was to start off with
    ''kamui'' then the after effects will hinder him for the remainer of the match.He would not of scouted
    out jiraiya moves.He has no info on him.So how can he effectively fight to his TRUE LEVEL?he can't
    can he,because there no basis for him to do so.This ain't ninja storm,lmao.

    Like i said earlier,i like kakashi but he's overmatched.He would not be considered the strongest in the village imo if Jiraiya was alive and the title for kage was up for grabs.And jiraiya wanted to go for it.
    Naruto would be the only logical rival to jiraiya...even though there had been a debate about it.
    Within the manga.Kakashi has grown but his ability is been vastly overplayed here.Imo.He's good but
    not that good.
    Last edited by kakashidad; July 17, 2011 at 04:02 AM.

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  17. #281
    Registered User 有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity ashher's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Yes, I'm saying I know better than Nagato/Pain. We see Naruto getting information that Jiraiya and Kakashi never got, and Naruto never got blindsided or blocked at vital moments like Jiraiya and Kakashi did. You cab use what the characters say as manga facts if you want, I'll just use manga actions and statements to support me. Deal?

    Statements aren't necessarily manga facts, they're opinions (and in many cases true for the time being).

    Nice try trolling/flamebaiting/whatever though.
    statements are manga facts, until they are proven otherwise by later manga statements.

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  19. #282
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    statements are manga facts, until they are proven otherwise by later manga statements.
    They become manga facts when the one stating it can back them up. If Sakura states right now our of the blue that Madara has 3 eyes in his head that would not be manga fact as she has nothing to back something like that up. Also some people like Madara can not be trusted in what they state as they lie like hell.

    A good example is Shi stating crep.

    _____________________________________

    JMan would have died vs Pein fast and simple if not for the plot shield... He can have all the info on Pein ... If Pein starts with all bodies JMan is dead in seconds and he does not even have time to enter sage mode... I will never understand why Animal Realm never just summoned them all of the bad and destroy JMan in seconds before he could enter sage mode.... Well aside from plot shield. Think about it, JMan had problem entering SM when all he was fighting was a summon lol.

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  21. #283
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member EMS's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    if i'm correct kakashi couldn't perform Raikiri perfect until he got his left eye(sharingan) from obito and the sharingan helped kakashi to used Raikiri. kakashi got blessed with one of the best two eyes(sharingan,rinnegan)
    Last edited by EMS; July 17, 2011 at 08:31 AM.

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  23. #284
    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by ashher View Post
    statements are manga facts, until they are proven otherwise by later manga statements.
    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    They become manga facts when the one stating it can back them up. If Sakura states right now our of the blue that Madara has 3 eyes in his head that would not be manga fact as she has nothing to back something like that up. Also some people like Madara can not be trusted in what they state as they lie like hell.

    A good example is Shi stating crep.

    _____________________________________

    JMan would have died vs Pein fast and simple if not for the plot shield... He can have all the info on Pein ... If Pein starts with all bodies JMan is dead in seconds and he does not even have time to enter sage mode... I will never understand why Animal Realm never just summoned them all of the bad and destroy JMan in seconds before he could enter sage mode.... Well aside from plot shield. Think about it, JMan had problem entering SM when all he was fighting was a summon lol.
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Manga facts can be extracted from most statements. So even if Sakura says that Madara has 3 eyes on the back of his head with nothing to back it up, if nothing else, it is a manga fact that Sakura believes that Madara has 3 eyes on the back of his head, at least until we are shown that she does not really believe that, etc.

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  24. #285
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Kakashi vs Jiraiya

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Manga facts can be extracted from most statements. So even if Sakura says that Madara has 3 eyes on the back of his head with nothing to back it up, if nothing else, it is a manga fact that Sakura believes that Madara has 3 eyes on the back of his head, at least until we are shown that she does not really believe that, etc.
    Its not the same thing. Nagato belived to be a god so for him that ilusion was true but for the rest of the Naruto-verse he was just a insane powerfull ninja(in other words it would not have any relevance on the topics at hand). Its realy irrelevant for a battle topic what Sakura belives. But it would be relevant if she could prove that as Madara could use 5 Izanagi. I was answering that in correlation with the Tournament at hand.
    Last edited by xXan; July 17, 2011 at 08:58 AM.

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