Kakashi vs Jiraiya

[jdw]

Ok if this is true. Who do you think has the brains to win and use those abilities to the fullest to win between the two? I'm leaning slightly towards Kakashi just because the mans a genius and has plenty of technique and ability to perform the job. Is Jiraiya smart enough to counter the unpredictable Kakashi? Merely just asking everyone is right to their own opinion of course.

I will begin by saying that Kakashi is a genius (Databook 5 intelligence, iirc). He has a mind like Shikamarau, and better skills than Shikamaru. At the same time, Jiraiya is not stupid (Databook 4.5 intelligence, iirc). Still, in the end, I think that though Kakashi might be smarter, his power does not cover the gap. Meaning Jiraiya's intellect and greater power are enough to overcome kakashi's greater intellect and lesser power.

[DaHeroic1]

its pretty hard to say cause naruto and sasuke seem to level out every time cause there about equal in terms of their mastery of their respective justu.

even thou a standard rasengan is still a rank its more varies depending on the users proficiency, naruto and konohamru have vastly different sized rasengans. even naruto's great ball rasengan is still classified as a rank but its atleast twice as big a normal but left a sizeable crater and minato's regular rasengan is about that size and power. in the end it just depends on how much chakra you pump into it and jiraya certainly has the ability to do so but whether or not were at liberty to make him do so is another matter

It's still strange to me though that Kakashi's is basically considered a seperate jutsu and even a full rank higher then Sasuke's childori. Even cutting through lighning shouldn't cause such a drastic leap in class. I even remember during the Deidara vs sasuke fight sasuke kept correcting Deidara telling him the jutsu is called childori. If we consider Kakashi uses more chakra it still doesn't make sense as like u said Naruto's great ball rasengan is still a rank even with more chakra. I'm probally thinking to much into this as Kakashi is at a disadvantage clashing with Jiraiya bc of the difference in their chakra level.

[3c]

Even though Kamui is a pretty wicked jutsu, Kakashi only has 2 shots (maybe 3) at best with it and then he's toast. We already saw what happened to him "lately" after using it once, he had problems running for a short time. While he can end up using it offensively and thus Jiraiya will have major trouble defending himself (most likely he'll get killed given Kakashi's improved usage of it), the opposite might be true also. Against Sasuke Kakashi had to use Kamui defensively, if Jiraiya can force him to use Kamui for defence, Kakashi will tire extremely quickly. And we all know like I said above what happens when Kakashi has used it once, he becomes vulnerable for a short period of time. A ninja of Jiraiya's caliber would definitely finish him off in that amount of time.

Overall it's a very tight match like many have already said. I don't feel like repeating so many arguments, and arguing now is pretty pointless too since the match is closing in little over an hour But it basically comes down to this: If Kakashi uses Kamui for offence, he has a high chance of instantly killing Jiraiya. If he's forced by Jiraiya to use Kamui for defence, Kakashi is as good as dead. Without using Kamui Kakashi would struggle to defeat Jiraiya IMO.

[rell250]

I will begin by saying that Kakashi is a genius (Databook 5 intelligence, iirc). He has a mind like Shikamarau, and better skills than Shikamaru. At the same time, Jiraiya is not stupid (Databook 4.5 intelligence, iirc). Still, in the end, I think that though Kakashi might be smarter, his power does not cover the gap. Meaning Jiraiya's intellect and greater power are enough to overcome kakashi's greater intellect and lesser power.

How wouldn't his power cover the "gap." Why would Jiraiya say Kakashi is perfect for leading the village as Hokage if he didn't have power. It just makes no sense. Why would he and many other shinobi believe that he could take over after Hashirama,Tobirama,Sarutobi,Minato, and Tsunade. You don't think his speed,sharingan,raikiri,kamui, and 1000 other jutsus he can use to manipulate the battle against Jiraiya any way he wants along with his SUPERIOR intelligence over Jiraiya. I'm sorry but it doesn't add up... All Jiraiya people are saying is that Jiraiya has more chakra but Kakashi has already shown to control his chakra efficiently to battle for long periods of time. So yea i disagree completely and give the edge to Kakashi. Sage Mode if Jiraiya could even get in it would be the only thing he could do to possible pressure Kakashi into using more chakra than he wants. Even so i don't see Kakashi unable to fight Sage Jiraiya since he has sharingan to be evasive. Anyways im done on this. I wonder who will win Minato's teacher or his student. Who has more fans is what it clearly comes down to at the end of the day.

[DementedKirby]

I will begin by saying that Kakashi is a genius (Databook 5 intelligence, iirc). He has a mind like Shikamarau, and better skills than Shikamaru. At the same time, Jiraiya is not stupid (Databook 4.5 intelligence, iirc). Still, in the end, I think that though Kakashi might be smarter, his power does not cover the gap. Meaning Jiraiya's intellect and greater power are enough to overcome kakashi's greater intellect and lesser power.

Exactly. Kakashi's only a smidgen more intelligent than Jiraiya. However, the gap in stamina, strength, ability, and experience is too far ahead to be caught up by such a small advantage in intelligence.

Kakashi has like 1,000 jutsu, out of which we've only seen roughly like 20 of them (to be fair). Out of those jutsu he's got Rasengan, Chidori, Kamui, Shadow Clones, Lightning Clones, summoning the dogs, and all the other elemental type jutsu he's shown so far. I doubt he'll give Jiraiya the 1,000 Years of Pain, but Jiraiya is in his 50s and a strike like that at a swollen prostate will be enough to kill anybody - even Jiraiya . But Kakashi still isn't on par to deal with someone of Jiraiya's caliber.

[jdw]

@3c: Which way are you voting, if I may ask

It is kinda hard to tell from all that.

[rell250]

I'm probally thinking to much into this as Kakashi is at a disadvantage clashing with Jiraiya bc of the difference in their chakra level.

See stuff like this doesn't make sense to me. What does that have to do with the jutsu itself. Raikiri is S class and more powerful than Chidori so its either going to overpower a regular rasengan or nullify not get overpowered at all. A Sage Rasengan is a different story and i highly doubt Kakashi would get anywnear those bad boys.

---------- Post added at 12:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

Exactly. Kakashi's only a smidgen more intelligent than Jiraiya. However, the gap in stamina, strength, ability, and experience is too far ahead to be caught up by such a small advantage in intelligence.

Kakashi has like 1,000 jutsu, out of which we've only seen roughly like 20 of them (to be fair). Out of those jutsu he's got Rasengan, Chidori, Kamui, Shadow Clones, Lightning Clones, summoning the dogs, and all the other elemental type jutsu he's shown so far. I doubt he'll give Jiraiya the 1,000 Years of Pain, but Jiraiya is in his 50s and a strike like that at a swollen prostate will be enough to kill anybody - even Jiraiya . But Kakashi still isn't on par to deal with someone of Jiraiya's caliber.

LOL so a perfect 5 in intelligence is now only a smidgen? The differece between me and you. I dont have to downplay Jiraiya or try to. Only two people from Konoha are considered as intelligent in battle, and thats Shikamaru and Kakashi. As far as experience, thats irrelevant completely. They've both fought many battles and in wars so yea. Kakashi has been a joinin since 6 LMAO. You really haven't provided any details at all and i think you miss the points to what i've been saying or M3j as well. We're provinding reasoning and you keep repeating the same thing over and over.

[xXan]

How wouldn't his power cover the "gap." Why would Jiraiya say Kakashi is perfect for leading the village as Hokage if he didn't have power. It just makes no sense. Why would he and many other shinobi believe that he could take over after Hashirama,Tobirama,Sarutobi,Minato, and Tsunade. You don't think his speed,sharingan,raikiri,kamui, and 1000 other jutsus he can use to manipulate the battle against Jiraiya any way he wants along with his SUPERIOR intelligence over Jiraiya. I'm sorry but it doesn't add up... All Jiraiya people are saying is that Jiraiya has more chakra but Kakashi has already shown to control his chakra efficiently to battle for long periods of time. So yea i disagree completely and give the edge to Kakashi. Sage Mode if Jiraiya could even get in it would be the only thing he could do to possible pressure Kakashi into using more chakra than he wants. Even so i don't see Kakashi unable to fight Sage Jiraiya since he has sharingan to be evasive. Anyways im done on this. I wonder who will win Minato's teacher or his student. Who has more fans is what it clearly comes down to at the end of the day.

I don't like ABC logic but Kakashi was shiting briks in part one when he faced Oro. The fact that he is up for Kage means little. Kakashi is good but he is defenetly not on JMan's level aside from the i shoot you die Kamui.

[DaHeroic1]

See stuff like this doesn't make sense to me. What does that have to do with the jutsu itself. Raikiri is S class and more powerful than Chidori so its either going to overpower a regular rasengan or nullify not get overpowered at all. A Sage Rasengan is a different story and i highly doubt Kakashi would get anywnear those bad boys.

Sorry what i meant was if the jutsu cancel eachother out every time Kakashi can't afford to waste chakra exchange lightning blade and rasengan. Jus bc of the difference in class i would like to say Kakashi's jutsu would come out on top but i just am not entirely sure about it. Kakashi would be the best just though as he also has rasengan as well to so my guess is out of anyone in the manga he would know what would happen if these two jutsu clashed.

[rell250]

I don't like ABC logic but Kakashi was shiting briks in part one when he faced Oro. The fact that he is up for Kage means little. Kakashi is good but he is defenetly not on JMan's level aside from the i shoot you die Kamui.

Another irrelevant post because you're comparing Kakashi from Part 1 to part 2. And if you read every posts you would know we went thru this already and Kakashi stated several times in Part 1 he was nowhere in true battle shape. Hence why over the timeskip he improved in alot of things. oh and there are no levels this isnt DBZ

[DementedKirby]

How wouldn't his power cover the "gap." Why would Jiraiya say Kakashi is perfect for leading the village as Hokage if he didn't have power. It just makes no sense. Why would he and many other shinobi believe that he could take over after Hashirama,Tobirama,Sarutobi,Minato, and Tsunade. You don't think his speed,sharingan,raikiri,kamui, and 1000 other jutsus he can use to manipulate the battle against Jiraiya any way he wants along with his SUPERIOR intelligence over Jiraiya. I'm sorry but it doesn't add up... All Jiraiya people are saying is that Jiraiya has more chakra but Kakashi has already shown to control his chakra efficiently to battle for long periods of time. So yea i disagree completely and give the edge to Kakashi. Sage Mode if Jiraiya could even get in it would be the only thing he could do to possible pressure Kakashi into using more chakra than he wants. Even so i don't see Kakashi unable to fight Sage Jiraiya since he has sharingan to be evasive. Anyways im done on this. I wonder who will win Minato's teacher or his student. Who has more fans is what it clearly comes down to at the end of the day.

Kakashi would meet all the requirements needed by everyone. He's popular and highly respected, so he gets the jounin vote. He was trained by the Fourth Hokage, who was trained by Jiraiya, who was trained by the Sandaime Hokage, who was trained by Shodaime Hokage, etc., so the daimyou is gonna accept the nomination (which was already done before). Kakashi's no push over plus he knows what it means to be Hokage: sacrifice yourself for the village and any of its villagers - something he did when Pain invaded Konoha. He clearly knew he would die but he sacrificed himself for Chouji to go give the info to Tsunade. Also, Jiraiya is stronger than Kakashi, a beast of a shinobi, but he's irresponsible. He's lazy, too. All he wants to do is write and spy on women. Jiraiya didn't turn down the position of Hokage because he didn't meet any of the requirements. He just knew that there were people who would fill out that position better than himself. Which is why he suggested Tsunade. Had Tsunade been there to begin with after Orochimaru's attack, you could bet the elders would've gone to her first before Jiraiya.

The only thing Kakashi needs to do to truly be Hokage, or at least do after becoming Hokage, is learn Shiki Fuujin. Every Hokage must participate in the battle royal taking place in the Shinigami's belly .

[jdw]

How wouldn't his power cover the "gap." Why would Jiraiya say Kakashi is perfect for leading the village as Hokage if he didn't have power. It just makes no sense. Why would he and many other shinobi believe that he could take over after Hashirama,Tobirama,Sarutobi,Minato, and Tsunade. You don't think his speed,sharingan,raikiri,kamui, and 1000 other jutsus he can use to manipulate the battle against Jiraiya any way he wants along with his SUPERIOR intelligence over Jiraiya. I'm sorry but it doesn't add up... All Jiraiya people are saying is that Jiraiya has more chakra but Kakashi has already shown to control his chakra efficiently to battle for long periods of time. So yea i disagree completely and give the edge to Kakashi. Sage Mode if Jiraiya could even get in it would be the only thing he could do to possible pressure Kakashi into using more chakra than he wants. Even so i don't see Kakashi unable to fight Sage Jiraiya since he has sharingan to be evasive. Anyways im done on this. I wonder who will win Minato's teacher or his student. Who has more fans is what it clearly comes down to at the end of the day.

I never said Kakashi does not have power, or does not have enough power to be Hokage. I am saying he does not have the power to cover the gap between himself and Jiraiya. There is a stark difference between these statements. Just having the power to be a kage does not mean that you are instantly 1:1 or better than everyone else. Kakashi would make a damn fine Hokage, but he lacks the power to match Jiraiya and a title would not, by itself, make him a stronger shinobi. If he goes as reads some forbidden scrolls that only a kage has access to, then he would close the gap, imo. When Sandaime died, they looked at Jiraiya, then Tsunade, no one even glanced Kakashi's way. When Tsunade was KO'd after Pain, the Daimyo wanted Jiraiya as the choice, and lamented his loss, even though he said Kakashi was an excellent choice.

[DementedKirby]

LOL so a perfect 5 in intelligence is now only a smidgen? The differece between me and you. I dont have to downplay Jiraiya or try to. Only two people from Konoha are considered as intelligent in battle, and thats Shikamaru and Kakashi. As far as experience, thats irrelevant completely. They've both fought many battles and in wars so yea. Kakashi has been a joinin since 6 LMAO. You really haven't provided any details at all and i think you miss the points to what i've been saying or M3j as well. We're provinding reasoning and you keep repeating the same thing over and over.

I didn't say that a perfect 5 is a smidgen of intelligence. I said that a 5 compared to a 4.5, in other words, a 0.5 of advantage, is only a smidgen. Oh, and You only mentioned Kakashi and Shikamaru, yet Shikaku (Shikamaru's father) is way smarter than Shikamaru .

[3c]

@3c: Which way are you voting, if I may ask

It is kinda hard to tell from all that.

You may

Even though I HATE, I repeat HATE to go by a way of thinking like "battle starts, both ninja use jutsu X respectively", that's what I did with this fight. That's why I prefer battles written by Kishi where there's some reasonable talking and build up compared to hypothetical fights where both just go all out from the first second. And as such I gave it to Kakashi because of Kamui. I really do hate unavoidable, instant hitting techniques like Kamui, Amaterasu etc that take no prep time and are totally unpredictable, (at least Kirin requires prep time!) but that's what affected my vote.

Overall I think Kakashi without Kamui would give Jiraiya a challenge, but Jiraiya is overall superior. To get into Sage Mode would be easier than against Pain too, as all he'd have to do is summon a giant toad or two and mess around for a bit while getting into Sage Mode. Kakashi has no means of bombarding Jiraiya with jutsu to prevent him from entering Sage Mode like Kakuzu and Sasuke sort of had. Even without Sage Mode Jiraiya would win IMO, again this is IF Kakashi didn't use Kamui. But Kamui is a part of Kakashi's power, and as such making him use it is only fair given how insanely awesome the jutsu is.

tl;dr version: IMHO Jiraiya is a superior shinobi but a battle between shinobi isn't just about who is strongest but who has the best abilities. In this case Kakashi has a great ability that I consider being very hard for Jiraiya to avoid, and as such Kakashi gets my vote.

[DarkPrinceRevan]

i think kakashi and jiraya are roughly equivalent without including sage mode, kakashi has the edge in close range with his sharingan but jiraya posses more potent ranged jutsu. i believe kakashi's hiding like a mole is countered by turning the area into a swamp. jiraya's fire jutsu can be countered with kakashi's water but a big enough aoe can leave him vulnerable if he loses track of jiraya like he did with kakazua. but an earth wall from kakashi can give a breather if things go bad. summoning a giant toad gives a huge advantage even if their to big to actually chase and kill kakashi but a collaboration with one can be a big deal. jiraya still has access to his barrier to keep track of kakashi if he closes in. honest they can go back and forth but kakashi cant afford to make any wasted movements. he cant bring out to many big moves, 3 kamui and hes out for a week and a single clone leaves him with half chakra so that would limit him to 2 kamui and he'll drop dead. while jiraya can throw a couple of clones at kakashi into making a mistake he would still be hard pressed to find a moment to get into sage mode.