Madara vs Itachi

[xXan]

Madara doesn't respect anything. Why should he honor Itachi's deal? He clearly stated that with Itachi out of the picture he can do as he pleases with Konoha. That's the proverbial "when the cat's away the mice will play".

Because Itachi can't stop Madara from attacking Konoha that is why.

[DementedKirby]

Because Itachi can't stop Madara from attacking Konoha that is why.

Proof? Examples? 'Cause what I find clear as day and black & white is that Madara told Zetsu that with Itachi gone he can go attack Konoha. Show me where it's clearly demonstrated that Itachi wouldn't be able to stop Madara.

[3c]

There's no way Itachi left Madara for Sasuke, he didn't even want Madara to get in contact with Sasuke(!) and therefore planted the Amaterasu trap in Sasuke's eye. He feared that his plan would fail and that Sasuke would be tainted by Madara, and as such made a back up plan by giving Naruto a crowjob. I repeat, there's no way Itachi would leave the job for Sasuke if he had a chance of preventing it, that much is painfully obvious. Itachi loved Sasuke more than anything, more than Konoha, he would never take the risk. Itachi is smart and rational, not stupid.

I don't know how many times I've said this, but it's obvious that Itachi had no clue how to kill Madara and as such didn't even attempt on taking his life. I personally can't understand how Itachi didn't know about Izanagi, but I don't think he did. In fact I think that's what saved Madara from his Amaterasu trap, and that's what Madara referred to as "kept secrets from Itachi". If he didn't use Izanagi there, it must have been a standard suck in the flames no jutsu, meaning Itachi didn't even know about his warp jutsu. Either way the point stands, Itachi didn't know how to kill Madara no matter what he knew and didn't know about him. So now you ask, why didn't Madara just take the fight to him then? Because he knew that Itachi would eventually die anyway. He had full knowledge of Itachi's plans and knew that with patience he would get rid of him for free, so why take the risk of fighting him? Besides he needed what happened to happen to convert Sasuke to his cause.

Anyway this fight has been predictable to happen since the tournament's beginning and I've already given it a load of thought. Madara should take this, how? He outlasts Itachi easily. Itachi is not a chakra powerhouse, he can't keep up Susano'o for too long either going by his final fight. If he uses it when he's fresh at the start of the fight, he'll probably be able to maintain it longer, but it's all useless. We have no proof that Totsuka will work on Madara, and Madara is freaking fast and keeps appearing under/behind people to suck them up like he did against Torune. That's all he would have to do. Minato got away because he had a teleportation technique that is even faster than Madara's, Itachi has no such technique and would get wtfblitzed and sucked up into Madara's dimension. Susano'o is useless, Madara would juse appear inside it.

[xXan]

Proof? Examples? 'Cause what I find clear as day and black & white is that Madara told Zetsu that with Itachi gone he can go attack Konoha. Show me where it's clearly demonstrated that Itachi wouldn't be able to stop Madara.

lol You need evidence that THE ENTIRE Akatsuki could kill Itachi? I realy hope you are joking. Pein alone and would destroy Itachi...

PS. read your own link, the entire thing was Madara's plan.

@3c

Well said. Exacly what i said on the previous page with a lot less words lol.

[EMS]

i have to think about which one will have my vote,itachi is so powerful that is hard to pick one.

[DementedKirby]

There's no way Itachi left Madara for Sasuke, he didn't even want Madara to get in contact with Sasuke(!) and therefore planted the Amaterasu trap in Sasuke's eye. He feared that his plan would fail and that Sasuke would be tainted by Madara, and as such made a back up plan by giving Naruto a crowjob. I repeat, there's no way Itachi would leave the job for Sasuke if he had a chance of preventing it, that much is painfully obvious. Itachi loved Sasuke more than anything, more than Konoha, he would never take the risk. Itachi is smart and rational, not stupid.

I don't know how many times I've said this, but it's obvious that Itachi had no clue how to kill Madara and as such didn't even attempt on taking his life. I personally can't understand how Itachi didn't know about Izanagi, but I don't think he did. In fact I think that's what saved Madara from his Amaterasu trap, and that's what Madara referred to as "kept secrets from Itachi". If he didn't use Izanagi there, it must have been a standard suck in the flames no jutsu, meaning Itachi didn't even know about his warp jutsu. Either way the point stands, Itachi didn't know how to kill Madara no matter what he knew and didn't know about him. So now you ask, why didn't Madara just take the fight to him then? Because he knew that Itachi would eventually die anyway. He had full knowledge of Itachi's plans and knew that with patience he would get rid of him for free, so why take the risk of fighting him? Besides he needed what happened to happen to convert Sasuke to his cause.

Anyway this fight has been predictable to happen since the tournament's beginning and I've already given it a load of thought. Madara should take this, how? He outlasts Itachi easily. Itachi is not a chakra powerhouse, he can't keep up Susano'o for too long either going by his final fight. If he uses it when he's fresh at the start of the fight, he'll probably be able to maintain it longer, but it's all useless. We have no proof that Totsuka will work on Madara, and Madara is freaking fast and keeps appearing under/behind people to suck them up like he did against Torune. That's all he would have to do. Minato got away because he had a teleportation technique that is even faster than Madara's, Itachi has no such technique and would get wtfblitzed and sucked up into Madara's dimension. Susano'o is useless, Madara would juse appear inside it.

Madara didn't use Izanagi against Itachi's Amaterasu. Because then he would've had only one eye when he faced Konan and therefore lost both of them. Madara simply became intangible so that the fire wouldn't burn through him - like he did against Konan's explosive tags.

If he didn't want Sasuke to face or meet Madara, why mention him? He told him the story so that not only would Sasuke not believe Madara, but face him. He told him the story about the eternal Mangekyou so that Sasuke would take his eyes and become powerful enough just for that purpose. To face Madara. Only a Sharingan can defeat a Sharingan. Minato gave Naruto the Kyuubi to face Madara but Itachi gave Sasuke his eyes.

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------

lol You need evidence that THE ENTIRE Akatsuki could kill Itachi? I realy hope you are joking. Pein alone and would destroy Itachi...

PS. read your own link, the entire thing was Madara's plan.

@3c

Well said. Exacly what i said on the previous page with a lot less words lol.

Dude, I had already said that the reason Itachi didn't attack Madara was because of Akatsuki. And about Madara's plan, he always says that it's all part of the plan. No matter what happens. He can plan that something will happen yet miraculously the opposite of that occurence is also part of the plan. I mean, seriously?

[xXan]

Madara didn't use Izanagi against Itachi's Amaterasu. Because then he would've had only one eye when he faced Konan and therefore lost both of them. Madara simply became intangible so that the fire wouldn't burn through him - like he did against Konan's explosive tags.

If he didn't want Sasuke to face or meet Madara, why mention him? He told him the story so that not only would Sasuke not believe Madara, but face him. He told him the story about the eternal Mangekyou so that Sasuke would take his eyes and become powerful enough just for that purpose. To face Madara. Only a Sharingan can defeat a Sharingan. Minato gave Naruto the Kyuubi to face Madara but Itachi gave Sasuke his eyes.

Madara has lots of eyes to replace the one he lost so you are defenetly wrong here.

Dude, I had already said that the reason Itachi didn't attack Madara was because of Akatsuki. And about Madara's plan, he always says that it's all part of the plan. Which I always believe to be complete BS.

You asked for evidence and that is not needed as if Madara wanted to force his way he could have used Aka to kill Itachi. The only thing holding Madara back is the deal and the fact that he was using Itachi and it was all his plan.
Madara is not stating lies at Zetsu defenetly knows Madara's plans and he would know if that was in Madara's plan or not.

[DementedKirby]

Just because all those eyes were shown doesn't mean he uses them for Izanagi. We have no idea what those eyes are for. You're assumptions are too unreliable with the information given.

[xXan]

Just because all those eyes were shown doesn't mean he uses them for Izanagi. We have no idea what those eyes are for. You're assumptions are too unreliable with the information given.

We know he has tons of eyes. We also know he can transplant them. So the posibility is great that he would replace any lost sharingan especialy when is do or die. My asumtion is good enough. If you can't accept it is another thing. But your asumtion that Madara would hold them for some unknown objective and not use them to save his life and/or replace a hole in his head is more(way more) of a unrealistic asumtion then what i stated.

[DementedKirby]

Madara replacing his own eyes means losing his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan - because he took his brothers eyes. Is he really gonna risk or give up his brother's eyes just for the fun of it? No. That's why I doubt he just implants eyes into him like he's changing clothes. Don't misunderstand me - it makes perfect sense, but I don't think that he would do so. He used Izanagi against Konan because he had no alternative. Still, it didn't matter to him because he replaced his brother's eye with a Rinnegan.

[3c]

Madara didn't use Izanagi against Itachi's Amaterasu. Because then he would've had only one eye when he faced Konan and therefore lost both of them. Madara simply became intangible so that the fire wouldn't burn through him - like he did against Konan's explosive tags.

If he didn't want Sasuke to face or meet Madara, why mention him? He told him the story so that not only would Sasuke not believe Madara, but face him. He told him the story about the eternal Mangekyou so that Sasuke would take his eyes and become powerful enough just for that purpose. To face Madara. Only a Sharingan can defeat a Sharingan. Minato gave Naruto the Kyuubi to face Madara but Itachi gave Sasuke his eyes.

Madara has a whole collection of Sharingan. It would be no sweat to replace the eye if it's just a sacrificial eye to begin with. Besides we never saw the flames again, I assume they would keep burning and possibly spread if he just went intangible, which leaves his warp technique to get rid of the flames. In which case that's what Itachi didn't know about. Anyway this is irrelevant as neither have info on the other.

Obviously he put up a back up plan don't you think? Likely scenario: Itachi couldn't kill Madara, if he could he would have killed him and then let Sasuke get his revenge afterwards. So he figured that Madara would taint Sasuke after his death, as such gave Naruto a crowjob plus fed Sasuke with information about Madara so that Sasuke hopefully would call bullshit on Madara's history lesson and join forces with Naruto and Konoha. With that info Sasuke would want to take out Madara, and maybe power up with Itachi's eyes. However that didn't happen as we all know. Sasuke went against Itachi's wishes. Which means that Itachi utterly failed. He couldn't kill Madara despite his amazing power and genius level, and he failed to keep Sasuke on the right path thanks to Sasuke's stupid decision making skills. The only thing left is Naruto and the crowjob. Itachi couldn't kill Madara, if he could he would, he wouldn't take such a stupid risk, that's not Itachi.

This fight is no different. Itachi has no attack that is fast enough to get to Madara except Amaterasu. The only reason Madara was hit by Amaterasu in the first place was because he was totally off guard expecting a nice and calm conversation. Against Kakashi with a similar attack with Kamui, he said that such an attack has no effect on him. Amaterasu would be useless, even if it hits he can counter by warping it up or use Izanagi before being hit. Susano'o wouldn't do anything, it's not fast enough from what we know, only Sasuke's has that potential. Yata's shield is useless despite its amazing defensive powers as Madara will just go through the ground and appear inside Susano'o, suck up Itachi and it's game over. The only thing left is Tsukuyomi, but it's debatable if it would be very effective on Madara. Madara seems to be highly proficient with genjutsu, having controlled Yagura, a perfect jinchuuriki and planning on putting the whole world under a large scale eternal Tsukuyomi. Tsukuyomi is Itachi's best shot but I doubt it would work.

[xXan]

Madara replacing his own eyes means losing his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan - because he took his brothers eyes. Is he really gonna risk or give up his brother's eyes just for the fun of it? No. That's why I doubt he just implants eyes into him like he's changing clothes. It makes sense, but I don't think that he would do so. He used Izanagi against Konan because he had no alternative. Still, it didn't matter to him because he replaced his brother's eye with a Rinnegan.

Where do you got the information that what he replaced was his brother eye? He could have lost that a long time ago. Also if that was a EMS eye he would be using diferent MS techs but he never used any of that. The best bet is that the 2 eyes he had in his head are sharingan only(like not MS or EMS eyes) and where transplanted from that safehouse (or other sources).

[3c]

Madara replacing his own eyes means losing his Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan - because he took his brothers eyes. Is he really gonna risk or give up his brother's eyes just for the fun of it? No. That's why I doubt he just implants eyes into him like he's changing clothes. Don't misunderstand me - it makes perfect sense, but I don't think that he would do so. He used Izanagi against Konan because he had no alternative. Still, it didn't matter to him because he replaced his brother's eye with a Rinnegan.

That is assuming that: A) "Madara" is Madara (which I think he is) and B) He still has TWO Eternal Mangekyou's prior to his fight with Konan. And we by the way have never seen either of Madara's eyes in any other form than basic Sharingans when he's been under the name Tobi. This is pure speculation, we can't really use it. Like xXan said he might have lost both his EMS (if he is Madara) a long time ago and using different eyes from someone else. It's all too vague and unknown.

[DementedKirby]

That is assuming that: A) "Madara" is Madara (which I think he is) and B) He still has TWO Eternal Mangekyou's prior to his fight with Konan. And we by the way have never seen either of Madara's eyes in any other form than basic Sharingans when he's been under the name Tobi. This is pure speculation, we can't really use it. Like xXan said he might have lost both his EMS (if he is Madara) a long time ago and using different eyes from someone else. It's all too vague and unknown.

That's my point. I'm not discarding the possibility, I'm merely pointing out the fact that such vague information can't be taken into serious consideration into this battle. Itachi has done nothing but fight with his head and he always heads out into battle prepared. He practially never fights with his real body. It's either a clone or genjutsu manipulation.

Madara is being too overestimated. Everyone's agreeing that since he has never used the Mangekyou Sharingan moveset so far then he mustn't have the eyes to do so. Therefore, all he's got against Itachi is space/time jutsu - just like his fight against Minato. Honestly, all Madara has up his sleeve is teleportation and that's the only thing to defeat Itachi?

And who's to say Itachi didn't know about Izanagi? If Danzou and Orochimaru knew about Izanagi then Itachi surely has. He was under Danzou in root. I'm gonna search to find the image of Danzou with Itachi to see if we can see a hint of his bulging shoulder, signifying his Izanagi arm. Itachi knew everything about his clan. There's no doubt he knew about Izanagi. He simply had no need to use it. Besides, if he were to ever use Izanagi, he wouldn't be able to give his eyes to Sasuke.

[M3J]

How can Itachi get out of bein gteleport by Tobi? Itachi would have the reflexes and speed to, but without space/time ninjutsu of his own, it may not guarantee safety for him.

I'm one of the biggest Itachi fanboys ever, which 3c can confirm, but even I find it hard to see how Itachi could win. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's hard. The five minute limit I assume has to do with continuous intangibility, so as long as Tobi becomes tangible again, he doesn't have to worry about the limit.