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View Poll Results: Who wins?

Voters
163. You may not vote on this poll
  • Madara

    70 42.94%
  • Itachi

    93 57.06%
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Thread: Madara vs Itachi

  1. #211
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - What the DB and Itachi said about breaking Tsukuyomi, was about the possibility of breaking it, not about it being something definite.

    - How will Madara break out of Tsukuyomi if it's too painful to concentrate enough to break it?

    - If Madara tries to warp, Itachi can create a KB behind Madara to cut his head off, before he's absorbed.
    Sasuke had his eyes getting removed and got out... This dudes are ninja, they got a high level of endurance to pain. Kakashi himself was able to speak and make logical dedudctions after 3 days of that shit.

  2. #212
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Murdock's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas.Sama View Post
    hmm... If Itachi's sword is ethereal, could it work on Madara despite him being intangible?
    welll at least he wouldn't be able to dogde it when he rematerializes since the sword would be still stucked in him ...
    Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

    Year 0 for our purposes:
    We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
    Year 5:
    J-Man trains Nagato
    Year 10:
    Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

  3. #213
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by Murdock View Post
    welll at least he wouldn't be able to dogde it when he rematerializes since the sword would be still stucked in him ...
    Itachi can't hold up Susano for 5 mins. If he does that he will drop exhauseted.

    Edited for stupid mistake lol.
    Last edited by xXan; July 21, 2011 at 11:48 AM.

  4. #214
    Registered User 九千以上だ! / Kyuusen Ijou Da! / It's Over 9000! mattiaildivino's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Minato can hold up Susano for 5 mins. If he does that he will drop exhauseted.
    you meant madara,I guess.

    Spoiler show
    Last edited by mattiaildivino; July 21, 2011 at 11:47 AM.

  5. #215
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    you meant madara,I guess.

    Spoiler show
    No.. actualy i wanted to state: Itachi can't hold up .... and so on. I can't belive what i stated there lol. Gues to much beer :P

    Now Itachi is an Edo now so perhaps his eyes are better now for some reason. Normaly he should be like he was just before he died. But b4 he died his eyes where white and what not. We probably need to w8 to see the fight and get more info. I could only trow asumtions on this.

  6. #216
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    That is as i said, Madara has done that to save his but and not because he can't warp when he get's damage. If he is in Izanagi Itachi can go ahead and blow him away. Madara would go poof and Itachi would be in his dimension. GG.
    If Madara could still warp Konan while damage, why wouldn't he had continued to warp her along with the explosion? Why choose one over the other unless he had no choice in the matter. In any case, when Itachi launches a technique at that time, he's not just gonna stand there while his technique hit Madara. he's gonna use that moment to get some distance and start the whole chase over.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Itachi would probably get warped after the first "kill" of Madara in Izanagi, just like Konan as he is going to let his guard down. Expecialy if he usses Amaterasu or exploading clones.
    As for the rest:
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-260-page-5.html

    Itachi blocked his attack and tried to punch him. If not for that Kakashi would have followed with another attack. In other words he was forced. Now keep in mind that before Madara first try to warp Itachi the warping tech will be completly unknown to Itachi so he could replicate his fighting style used and showed vs Kakashi expecialy since Madara himself showed the same thing, coming out of the ground to warp someone. Itachi's fighting style is not to fight side by side with a clone (well most of the time) but use clones for very specific events to counter diferent techs.
    All in all personaly i belive Madara is going to get his hands on him expecialy considering Madara himself is a very tactical mind.
    Itachi's not the type to lower his guard. If Madara attempts to reappear near him, Itachi's gonna notice and create some distance between them.

    Itachi didn't try to punch him, he feinted a punch to grab his head. Anyway, the thing your forgetting is that Itachi has been shown as a range fighter in the fights we have seen. So Itachi would readily maintain a distance between him and Madara. Even in the situation of only using a clone to counter, that still would prevent him from being warp, as he can simply create a clone as it happens to save himself. If Itachi can notice and strike two clones coming at him from behind without turning around, he should be able to notice Madara, especially when we have seen it's not all that hard to notice him coming from behind. Itachi would then be able to create some distance between them. Madara may have a tactical mind, but so does Itachi and his tactics are accompany by his genius intellect.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Minato teleported and then Madara warped just after him. Its probably Zetsu's spores but considering himself is some type of Zetsu i am sure he can follow those.
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-502-page-10.html

    This was close to instantly. Also personaly i belive he will know on who those Zetsu's spores are. When Madara warped after Minato he warped in front of him and looking direcly at him. This would imply that he knows the exact place where his target is.

    Problem is he probably needs Zetsu to plant the spores.
    Perhaps, but then that would mean that Madara would first have to get Zetsu to place his spores on those people ahead of time. Plus, Madara was able to locate Kinkaku and the Amber Pot even though Zetsu couldn't have planted any spores on it. So there could be more then that to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Itachi can't hold up Susano for 5 mins. If he does that he will drop exhauseted.
    Itachi should be able to hold it up for at least five minutes, considering he held it up long enough to wait for Orochimaru's Yamato technique to manifest and then behead it, listen to Orochimaru rant, seal Orochimaru, and then slowly walk towards Sasuke. All this after Itachi used multiple MS techniques and thus was quite drained at the time.

  7. #217
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Sasuke had his eyes getting removed and got out... This dudes are ninja, they got a high level of endurance to pain. Kakashi himself was able to speak and make logical dedudctions after 3 days of that shit.
    - getting his eye removed is nothing compared to what he could of done.

    - Kakashi being able to think isn't that great of an accomplishment.

  8. #218
    MH Senpai 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member M3J's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @M3J




    More reasons then one:

    1-Itachi told Kakashi that you need Uchiha blood to counter his Tsukiyomi. So Kakashi himself was only missing that.
    2-The databook states you need to be a elite Uchiha to counter ITACHI's Tsukiyomi.



    So what Itachi HIMSELF states Madara has and what the databook states one would need Madara has and more then enough. Not only does Madara has Uchiha DNA but SENJU to that is needed for you to power up the most powerfull genjutsu(Izanagi). Madara stated you need senju + uchiha to to use Izanagi. Madara also has unsurpassed sharingan mastery and knowledge.

    3- Madara himself had Tsukiyomi once and knows how it works.
    4- Madara showed the most knowledge in sharingan and mastery of it. He even knows knows Izanagi, how to cast Tsukiyomi on the moon, showed genjutsu skills, he is a master tactician and so on.

    All of this = Madara can do it.
    So far, it just shows that Tobi has a higher possibility/chances of breaking out of Tsukuyomi, not that he can or guaranteeing he can. We don't even know how he'll cast Tsukuyomi on the moon or what's required for Izanagi as even Danzou could do it (maybe handseals and chakra, simple). Itachi's Tsukuyomi could be more advanced and better than Tobi's Tsukuyomi, and if Itachi had Izanagi, then maybe he could use it better. Itachi may not have shown as much knowledge as Tobi, but he has also shown mastery, being able to detect and reverse genjutsu, cast genjutsu, and use his Mangekyo well. I mean, even nearly blind he was able to see well enough to react in time to most attacks.



    Quote Quote:
    Get a new brain in a sense as his body goes poof and turns whatever damage in just a dream. The mental damage ends up damaging the brain itself as Tsunade never erased Kakashi's memories from Tsukiyomi just used a healing tech on him. Keep in mind(ignoring the fact that Madara can counteri it easy) Madara would be in Izanagi so aside from the fact that i belive Tsukuyomi would not even work on Madara when he is in Izanagi, whatever damage, physical or mental would be turned into just a dream. If Tsuande can heal the damage made by Tsukiyomi i am sure Madara getting a new body (in a sense) would counter the damage.
    Oh. But Tobi'd have to activate Izanagi, which he may not be able to when in Tsukuyomi. I doubt he'd do it beforehand either since that'd waste an eye after the time limit is up, especially when he knows it's a bitch to kill him. If seals are required, then Itachi could see that and stop Tobi from doing it somehow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou King View Post
    Yeah, Sasuke saw it coming because Itachi had just used it beforehand and he was a good distance away. Madara wouldn't know Itachi has it until he actually uses it and he'll be too close to dodge. Remember, when Madara is warping something other then himself, it takes longer. So his reactions will be slower as he's attempting to warp Itachi then it would be if he wasn't.
    Wouldn't Tobi know it beforehand, or is that knowledge not allowed? Though even if Sasuke was pretty close, he could have avoided that since he had a headstart.

    Though if we're doing this with no knowledge, then yeah, Itachi would need to use it beforehand, which I doubt he'd do after seeing Tobi being able to go intangible. But, Tobi can also save that for when he needs it, dodging Itachi's attacks. As long as all Itachi are in his sight, he could dodge all of Itachi's attacks.

    Quote Quote:
    Madara didn't make any moves to get away because it seems he was surprised by it. The same would happen here, since he wouldn't know that Itachi has MS until he actually employs it. And since Itachi wouldn't use his MS until absolutely necessary, he wouldn't activate it until he was completely sure that it would work or he was in complete danger. As Madara's only dangerous technique is the warping, Itachi wouldn't have no reason to use it apart from then.
    I think he was more shocked at Itachi's Mangekyo on Sasuke since when Amaterasu formed on him, he stumbled back and got rid of it. Although Tobi's only dangerous technique is being able to warp, he can also do genjutsu, some taijutsu, and evasion that could tire out Itachi.

    Quote Quote:
    Well Madara's ability to locate people wouldn't necessarily translate to him being able to figure out which is the real Itachi if both the real one and clone are on the same field. I mean, his ability to locate others could be similar to that of sensor ninja, where he's simply searching for their specific chakra. Or he could have been using Zetsu, since we have never actually seen him before locating someone.
    As long as he knows where each enemy is, he can warp to them and take their head off, so it wouldn't matter which Itachi was real.

    Quote Quote:
    I don't see much problem for Itachi handling Madara's intangibility, but it doesn't seem like Madara can just warp an attack away. The one time we saw him do that, he still took quite a bit of damage. and depending on the size, it could leave him quite vulnerable while he's warping. That's why Susanoo should be a good defense. Madara wouldn't be able to instantly warp it and since he's solid, he would be open to attack. Itachi probably wouldn't have to damage Madara that much to gain an edge. If Itachi can simply eliminate Madara's hands, that would prevent Madara from taking hold of him and make it much easier to escape the warping without having to resort to his MS or something. So there wouldn't be much of a problem with Madara tanking his attacks as long as Itachi was able to do the right amount of damage.
    Does Itachi have such attack though? I think he'd have to create a lot of exploding bunshin or tons of exploding paper attached to kunai.

  9. #219
    Registered User 中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    This is ridiculous. Obviously, Madara wins in this fight. When I vote Madara, I am assuming that we are taking Madara in his prime vs. Itachi in his prime. We have no confirmation that the present Madara (Tobi) is actually the true Madara so we have to take Madara with EMS (the one who fought 1st Hokage) vs Itachi with MS. Guess what? Madara will win every time. We don't even know the last ability of the EMS. We don't even know that Itachi is truly aware of what that last ability is. Madara has the surprise, speed, and strength advantage. I would take Sasuke over Madara, but I got to pick Madara on this one. They draw in Genjutsu and Intelligence.

  10. #220
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Nicholas.Sama's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by PoopNScoop View Post
    This is ridiculous. Obviously, Madara wins in this fight. When I vote Madara, I am assuming that we are taking Madara in his prime vs. Itachi in his prime. We have no confirmation that the present Madara (Tobi) is actually the true Madara so we have to take Madara with EMS (the one who fought 1st Hokage) vs Itachi with MS. Guess what? Madara will win every time. We don't even know the last ability of the EMS. We don't even know that Itachi is truly aware of what that last ability is. Madara has the surprise, speed, and strength advantage. I would take Sasuke over Madara, but I got to pick Madara on this one. They draw in Genjutsu and Intelligence.
    Well I'd like to inform you that you are wrong. Itachi is fighting swirly-mask Madara. AKA Tobi.

    That being said, Itachi has the skills needed to deal with Madara outside of his MS techniques. Even though Madara is a proficient user of Genjutsu, Itachi just needs to time his correctly. Itachi can easily use clones as diversions and just needs one critical hit. We've seen Madara get maimed in every fight. There is not reason why Itachi can't do it too. Itachi's feats, along side Madara's reluctance to even challenge him, make me lean towards Itachi as the victor.

    Madara must activate Izanagi prior to a fatal wound, that won't happen in this fight. Madara would be defeated while on the offensive, not the defensive.

  11. #221
    MangaHelper MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted Rikudou King's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Wouldn't Tobi know it beforehand, or is that knowledge not allowed? Though even if Sasuke was pretty close, he could have avoided that since he had a headstart.

    Though if we're doing this with no knowledge, then yeah, Itachi would need to use it beforehand, which I doubt he'd do after seeing Tobi being able to go intangible. But, Tobi can also save that for when he needs it, dodging Itachi's attacks. As long as all Itachi are in his sight, he could dodge all of Itachi's attacks.
    Madara still possesses his knowledge about MS and everything, but he doesn't know Itachi has MS until Itachi actually reveals it.

    Well once Itachi comes to the conclusion about Madara having to go solid to physically attack, he's most likely depend on his fastest attack to ensure being able to hit Madara before Madara could escape. Apart from the natural immunity his intangibility grants him, I would think Madara would have a hard time dodging Itachi's techniques, even if he can keep an eye on him. If fellow Sharingan users Kakashi and Sasuke had trouble following his attacks, I don't think Madara would do much better.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    I think he was more shocked at Itachi's Mangekyo on Sasuke since when Amaterasu formed on him, he stumbled back and got rid of it. Although Tobi's only dangerous technique is being able to warp, he can also do genjutsu, some taijutsu, and evasion that could tire out Itachi.
    I have to said I would think Itachi has a greater chance of handling Madara's genjutsu then Madara has of handling his. Taijutsu wise, I would think works more in Itachi's favor, as to actually do damage Madara would have to risk going solid and being vulnerable to attack. Evasion may work, but I would think that Itachi is intelligent enough to not needlessly waste the effort until he's sure it would be worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    As long as he knows where each enemy is, he can warp to them and take their head off, so it wouldn't matter which Itachi was real.
    But Madara's warping himself would mean he's solid and thus vulnerable to attack. And warping away and then back isn't exactly a quick action. So Itachi and the clone should have plenty of time to move before he fully reappeared. Madara would have better luck phasing in and out of the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by M3J View Post
    Does Itachi have such attack though? I think he'd have to create a lot of exploding bunshin or tons of exploding paper attached to kunai.
    His Clone Explosion and Great Fireball should be capable of doing enough damage. Maybe even his Water Fang Bullet.

  12. #222
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member IChallengeYou!'s Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    I still don't see how Itachi would escape Madara's teleport+suckering combo. I think it was made obvious that you need an S/T jutsu of your own (Minato) and ultra fast reflexes (Minato),or gathered detailed knowledge about the jutsu and a specific set of powers (Konan) to escape it. Well guess what, Itachi has none at his disposal, while Madara knows pretty much everything about Itachi.
    Last edited by IChallengeYou!; July 22, 2011 at 03:47 AM.

  13. #223
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    @Rikudou King


    Quote Quote:
    If Madara could still warp Konan while damage, why wouldn't he had continued to warp her along with the explosion? Why choose one over the other unless he had no choice in the matter. In any case, when Itachi launches a technique at that time, he's not just gonna stand there while his technique hit Madara. he's gonna use that moment to get some distance and start the whole chase over.
    That would be diferent. He would be warping more then 1 thing at once. He had to chose from warping the explosion itself or warp Konan and get himself killed. If Madara is in Izanagi then he will just go in close in grab him then Itachi can shot all the techs he wants. Madara can come from below the ground to get in close. Madara is defenetly not going to fight a long ranged war as he can't do that. Itachi would have no idea about the warping so its a good chanse he is going to replicate what he has done vs Kakashi and try to block a attack coming from undergrond.

    Quote Quote:
    Itachi's not the type to lower his guard. If Madara attempts to reappear near him, Itachi's gonna notice and create some distance between them.
    Nop. He showed that he blocks vs Kakashi, showed that he uses jutsus but again keeps close vs Kurenai and then vs kakashi in the lake battle. Up to the moment he is going to find out Madara warps he will fight close to his target.

    Quote Quote:
    Itachi didn't try to punch him, he feinted a punch to grab his head.
    Yes he has but as a distraction. Point is he was in close combat and direct contact with Kakashi. If that was Madara it would be GG.

    Quote Quote:
    Anyway, the thing your forgetting is that Itachi has been shown as a range fighter in the fights we have seen.
    Err no.. Its the exact opposite. Well aside from Sasuke when that fight was diferent and Sasuke himself was keeping a distance and showering the battlefield with long ranged attacks.

    Quote Quote:
    If Itachi can notice and strike two clones coming at him from behind without turning around, he should be able to notice Madara, especially when we have seen it's not all that hard to notice him coming from behind. Itachi would then be able to create some distance between them. Madara may have a tactical mind, but so does Itachi and his tactics are accompany by his genius intellect.
    Nobody is saying Itachi could not do it. All i am saying Itachi ending up in warping distance before he finds out about it are greater then not. Both of the fighters are geniuses here in all respects for sure.

    Quote Quote:
    Itachi should be able to hold it up for at least five minutes, considering he held it up long enough to wait for Orochimaru's Yamato technique to manifest and then behead it, listen to Orochimaru rant, seal Orochimaru, and then slowly walk towards Sasuke. All this after Itachi used multiple MS techniques and thus was quite drained at the time.
    That never looked like 5 mins to me. But i am not going to argue over it as it would be irrelevant. If he realy holds it up for 5 mins for no good reason (like the one i quoted) he will just exhaust himself.

    @ki0


    Quote Quote:
    - getting his eye removed is nothing compared to what he could of done.

    - Kakashi being able to think isn't that great of an accomplishment.
    Err it was instense Pein and Sasuke was able to go trough that.
    Of course it is lol. He had 3 days of torture and he was still able to comprehends stuff. Madara with some mins is not going to mean much. Itachi will just keep stabing Madara(like vs Kakashi).

    @M3J


    Quote Quote:
    So far, it just shows that Tobi has a higher possibility/chances of breaking out of Tsukuyomi, not that he can or guaranteeing he can. We don't even know how he'll cast Tsukuyomi on the moon or what's required for Izanagi as even Danzou could do it (maybe handseals and chakra, simple). Itachi's Tsukuyomi could be more advanced and better than Tobi's Tsukuyomi, and if Itachi had Izanagi, then maybe he could use it better. Itachi may not have shown as much knowledge as Tobi, but he has also shown mastery, being able to detect and reverse genjutsu, cast genjutsu, and use his Mangekyo well. I mean, even nearly blind he was able to see well enough to react in time to most attacks.
    The chanses Madara has are good enough for me to asume he will do it. In all this fights we only got chanses of X,Y,Z to happen but we go with what has the better % of happening.
    Danzou was also a very smart man himself. What do you mean even Danzou? He had years and years and Oro of experimentation to get there.
    Of course Itachi has better MS genjutsu then Madara as Madara never showed he has any better them him. The point was that he once had MS genjutsu himself. I am also not dismissing Itachi's great accomplishments. I am just tring to find who has a better % of doing something.

    Quote Quote:
    Oh. But Tobi'd have to activate Izanagi, which he may not be able to when in Tsukuyomi. I doubt he'd do it beforehand either since that'd waste an eye after the time limit is up, especially when he knows it's a bitch to kill him. If seals are required, then Itachi could see that and stop Tobi from doing it somehow.
    I can understand why you made this mistake as my discusion with that guy whent over multiple posts. We where asuming Izanagi was already active when he get's hit with Tsukuyomi.
    Last edited by xXan; July 22, 2011 at 04:39 AM.

  14. #224
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    - If losing a eye is that bad than losing both eyes instantly would be 2x worse...but Itachi can do much worse. Bee who's a top tier fighter screamed instantly as soon as he was hit by Amaterasu.

    - Kakashi has a super genius's thinking capacity. He rivals Shikamaru who can of 200 different scenarios in the span of a couple minutes. Even if was reduced, his ability to think should still be high.

    - Madara likely won't get a chance to see through Itachi's normal genjutsu, considering how long it took Sasuke.

    - If Madara tries to warp Itachi, Itachi just creates a bunshin behind Madara instantly to take his head off.

  15. #225
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Madara vs Itachi

    Quote Originally Posted by ki0 View Post
    - If losing a eye is that bad than losing both eyes instantly would be 2x worse...but Itachi can do much worse. Bee who's a top tier fighter screamed instantly as soon as he was hit by Amaterasu.

    - Kakashi has a super genius's thinking capacity. He rivals Shikamaru who can of 200 different scenarios in the span of a couple minutes. Even if was reduced, his ability to think should still be high.

    - Madara likely won't get a chance to see through Itachi's normal genjutsu, considering how long it took Sasuke.

    - If Madara tries to warp Itachi, Itachi just creates a bunshin behind Madara instantly to take his head off.
    -The best thing Itachi showed to do when he wanted to inflict pain is stabing Kakashi over and over.

    -It does not matter what level of genius you are when you are tortured for 3 days.

    -In there last fight Sasuke was able to see trough Itachi's gejutsu over and over. It was a battle of genjutsu that ultimatly Sasuke won after the use of MS genjutsu.

    -If Madara get's to the warp Itachi can't do any clones. Minato was only able to escape because he can instantly teleport. KB needs handseals.

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