Nagato vs Minato

[hakuthehedgehog]

Well, he could send Kunais around and use that to teletransport behind Nagato, and he could use his own summons to buy some time against Nagato's summons.

Not saying he would win, but he would definitively have a chance against Nagato.

Of course he has a chance, heck, every fight in the top tier has a reasonable chance for either oponents, but IMO, Nagato has the best chances of winning this.

The problem I see with throwing kunais around is that, when Nagato started his fight against Jiraya, he almost immediatly hid in the chameleon.

Since the first ST is guaranteed to hit, as Minato would have no reason to expect it, Nagato would probably use that window of opportunity to summon an offensive summon and a defensive one (a bird or the chameleon).

The dog was owning 3 boss summons, and if Minato summons them all, it's going to take a toll on his chakra, and meanwhile he would have no idea how to get to Nagato.

Finally, Minato has no way of dealing with the super ST: the blast radius is so big that even if he warps to a kunai, it would hit the Kunai and Minato as well.

[Lexotan]

Of course he has a chance, heck, every fight in the top tier has a reasonable chance for either oponents, but IMO, Nagato has the best chances of winning this.

The problem I see with throwing kunais around is that, when Nagato started his fight against Jiraya, he almost immediatly hid in the chameleon.

Since the first ST is guaranteed to hit, as Minato would have no reason to expect it, Nagato would probably use that window of opportunity to summon an offensive summon and a defensive one (a bird or the chameleon).

The dog was owning 3 boss summons, and if Minato summons them all, it's going to take a toll on his chakra, and meanwhile he would have no idea how to get to Nagato.

Finally, Minato has no way of dealing with the super ST: the blast radius is so big that even if he warps to a kunai, it would hit the Kunai and Minato as well.

If Jiraiya could handle that invisibility tricky, I'm sure Minato would be able to do the same.

I believe that Minato could teletransport the super ST just like he did against Kyuubi's bijuu bomb, or even possibly redirect the attack to Nagato (my assumption) or simply vanish back to Konoha and avoid the explosion completely.

[Rikudou Sennin]

Raikage and Minato are of comparable speed.

I never said anything about it, but your are wrong, otherwise, post a page of a chapter. Only thing we know is that Minato is faster, as said by raikage himself, which you can see in a actual chapter and no fantasy story, which means its a fact.

Nagato was only injured on his legs, meaning the dodged all those others tags that were around, which shows incredible speed.

There werent other (many? what a joke) tags around, look at the chapter, not anime or something. Konans were many!

Your strategic example doesn't work because when Minato throws the Kunai, he would be blown by ST as well, and when he would throw another Kunai it would have already passed 5 seconds.

Again wrong, look chapter 423 and what Shinra Tensei does, if Nagato uses a big shinra tensei he would waste his chakra and minato would just barrier the impact away.

Minato only shushin speed feat was saving Naruto from Madara, which, while showing incredible speed, isn't enough to blitz Nagato: he would just summon a bull against Minato (he blocked Jiraya's fastest attack with a summon) , or a dog buying him time to use ST again.

First of all, of course its pretty fast and fast enough to kill him, but just for argument sake (which I love): Minato would teleport dog away and return or summon another summon which deals with dog, while the bull (in reality you mean the panda but never mind) wouldnt do anything just Minato to move around him. And now to the whole arguing, if Nagato is really THAT fast, why didnt animal realm summon do something to dodge Jiraiyas Rasengan inside the toad if he is that fast. Jiraiya certainly wasnt faster than Minato. And why didnt Animal Realm something to protect himself from jiraiyas lion mane teq? In the end, jiraiyas talking gave him time to use a replacement jutsu, but why didnt he summon earlier if he is that mighty?!!

He could also fly onto a bird to avoid physcial confrontation with Minato, hide in the chameleon while analyzes Minato's tech by seeing through the summon's eyes.

Even tough it would never come to that point, again for argument sake, the bird? Whats with him? Nagato would wait and keep away from minato to avoid confrontation for what? waving goodbye? (thank you!). It's ridicilous to think a Kage doesnt have a long range attack, because a Kage knows most jutsus (manga fact thanks to Kishimoto sama )

Chameleon and analyzing? Yeah "Cinema Minato" shows all of his jutsus to the visitor today. Jeezeez...as like Minato would just stand there, he would just sense him or use the frongs, easy and over. And chameleon doesnt have enough time to get nagato inside without getting tagged with Hiraishin, minato could also use a barrier to trap him and hunt it down, but ma and pa frong is the easiest way. By the way, it doesnt take long to summon them, just sync with them takes long. On top of it, its already hinted by Kishimoto that Minato can use the Sennin Mode, just look up for it and you will find it.

The barrier ninjutsu, which we have no ideia how long it takes to do, could be dealt with by summoning an animal and having him burrow a tunnel underground, or by summoning Gedo Mazo and extend the head in every direction until Minato has to run away from the battlefield.
The space time barrier could work against ST, but Minato would have to stand still, which would lead him nowhere since he has to move to tag Nagato.

Hah....how fun. How fast? Pretty fast to assume because after appearing he already put it on as he said himself. Diggin underground? Of course, why didnt Sarutobi just destroy the roof of the building and meet up with anbu?!^^ What a pointless argument. Of course a barrier is like a cube, which means the barrier is also under you.

Of course Minato would stand still, and after blocking ST, he has 5 seconds, which he is fast enough to kill Nagato in. Also, to get hit by shinra tensei ( a normal one) you have to be really close which advances Minato to hit him in the 5 second interval. If he uses a bigger Shinra tensei he just wastes chakra, because Minato blocks it and if he uses to much chakra, he cant use shinra tensei. hehe^^

And Gedo mazo? Stop joking, its strong yeah, but Hanzo and Danzo managed to get away with speed and just fodders died, and its hurts Nagato really bad , affects him for the rest of life and block his mobilization to a certain degree.

Minato is indeed faster than A thanks to Hiraishin, but since Nagato can clear the field of any tags with ST, Minato is left with shunshin, which, while fast, shouldn't be enough to blitz Nagato due to ST and summons.

Thats what you assume. Even though Minatos hiraishin is shown, we were informed about his speed and reflexes, which also means its also possible his raw shushin speed is faster than Raikage, which isnt proven the other way around. Which means its hinted by kishimoto again that his shushin speed is faster. So stop the fantasy storys again. The rest is written above.


As you can see, there is no way for Nagato, nothing you bring to the table is persevering

[hakuthehedgehog]

If Jiraiya could handle that invisibility tricky, I'm sure Minato would be able to do the same.

I believe that Minato could teletransport the super ST just like he did against Kyuubi's bijuu bomb, or even possibly redirect the attack to Nagato (my assumption) or simply vanish back to Konoha and avoid the explosion completely.

Jiraya didn't deal with the invisibility trick, Ma did, and with BT and ST, I don't think Minato would manage to dodge it.

Minato can't leave the battlefield: that counts as a ring out.

Minato could perhaphs redirect the blast, but he'd have to see it coming, and if Nagato is inside the chameleon, he wouldn't see it.

[xXan]

Ok for sake of argument minato jsut throws Kunais away acting as a failsafe - it's great defense and way better then triple rashomon IMO



kinda forgot about 5 second interval

also imagine this Minato throws Kunai at Nagato it gets ST (which he can throw near him so Nagato wouldn't use it at all but ok) say Nagato uses ST Kunai is hovering in the air - Minato s/t to it and immediately throws one at him from that distance and since nagato can't use ST for another 5 second Minato gets to Nagato

---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:56 PM ----------



except that Minato owned him in speed department and also A said he was faster

It would apear i need to link you the meaning of the word comparable as aperantly you have no idea what that is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/comparable

Also Minato owned him because he tricked him. The second time he was ready and he knew how to counter it.

[hakuthehedgehog]

@ Rikudo sennin: You are assuming that Minato could somehow detect the chameleon, use the space time barrier instantly against ST when he couldn't see it coming, has comparable Shushin speed to the Raikage when he never did, that he has long ranged attacks when he never showed them.

It took Kakashi Chouza's support, quite a while and a sharingan that never misses any detail to figure the 5 second cooldown, while one warp is all that Nagato needs to figure out Hiraishin.

Also, Minato warping away summons wouldn't work since he only has the kunais he can throw, not to mention it takes a big toll on chakra and nagato can summon them back.

[Naruffy]

He said they are of comparable speed and they are.

I didn't say that they weren't. Minato's Hiraishin gives him a greater range of movement (with the tags on the ground) so you have to take that into consideration when comparing them. Saying someone's faster isn't the same as saying they aren't comparable.

[Rikudou Sennin]

@ Rikudo sennin: You are assuming that Minato could somehow detect the chameleon, use the space time barrier instantly against ST when he couldn't see it coming, has comparable Shushin speed to the Raikage when he never did, that he has long ranged attacks when he never showed them.

It took Kakashi Chouza's support, quite a while and a sharingan that never misses any detail to figure the 5 second cooldown, while one warp is all that Nagato needs to figure out Hiraishin.

Also, Minato warping away summons wouldn't work since he only has the kunais he can throw, not to mention it takes a big toll on chakra and nagato can summon them back.

And again, first a shinobi throws a kunai or shuriken to test abilites out, Nagato uses shinra tensei. Then Minato knows the jutsu. And of course he could use the space time arrier instantly, he did it against Raikage with hiraishin (in terms of reflex speed) to a godlike degree and against kyuubi again.

Heh? Warping away would work, just look at kyuubi, and of course Nagato can warp them back, but Minato could plant them anywhere he wants. (you should be clever enough to asume where it could end dangerous for that thing. I dont get your summon arguing, Minato can also summon just for argument sake.

Minato is genius, he figure out who Tobi is pretty pretty quick, something none other shinobi figured out, exept Itachi, how approached him.

That is not the only instance where he used ST with no hands so its not a mistake.

It seems you didnt get the point. The mistake is that kishi wanted to show in chapter 423 that Deva Pain needs him palm for ST which, in the same chapter and in other chapters was shown, isnt the fact at all.

[En Yang Ji]

@RS: Does Minato have any feats that show him blitzing anyone using only speed? Did Raikage say how much faster Minato was?

[Lexotan]

Jiraya didn't deal with the invisibility trick, Ma did, and with BT and ST, I don't think Minato would manage to dodge it.

Minato can't leave the battlefield: that counts as a ring out.

Minato could perhaphs redirect the blast, but he'd have to see it coming, and if Nagato is inside the chameleon, he wouldn't see it.

Minato could also summon frogs, he probably wasn't able to use sage chackra, but he we can assume he was able to summon Ma and Pa.

If Tsunade had enough time to release her healing technique and protect herself against ST, I'm assuming Minato would be able to do the same. Leaving Nagato unable to use ST for a while, and giving Minato a opportunity to attack.

[hakuthehedgehog]

And again, first a shinobi throws a kunai or shuriken to test abilites out, Nagato uses shinra tensei. Then Minato knows the jutsu. And of course he could use the space time arrier instantly, he did it against Raikage with hiraishin (in terms of reflex speed) to a godlike degree and against kyuubi again.

You didn't get my point: when Minato threw the kunai (or kunai salvo most likely), Nagato would ST them all away along with Minato.

The time Minato takes to get up again is more than enough for Nagato to summon the chameleon and hide on his mouth.

Minato can only warp summon to a Kunai tag, since there are no Kunai tags far away, Minato could only warp kunais that are near him.
Also, it takes a big toll on his chakra, and again, Nagato can summon them back.

[Naruffy]

@RS: Does Minato have any feats that show him blitzing anyone using only speed? Did Raikage say how much faster Minato was?

Minato hasn't been shown blitzing anyone with his regular speed, but Here it's shown that Madara reconizes him as the yellow flash even without the use of Hiraishin.

[Montai]

We don't know what jutsu Nagato knows apart from what he has shown. For all we know, it's just one basic jutsu per element as there was no fight where Nagato used any elemental jutsu after he got the training. It'd be pretty absurd to say Nagato could do a water dragon missile or swamp of the underworld, just as it'd be ridiculous to say Minato knows Sage Mode... rather, it'd be incorrect and unknown for now. Shinra Tensei is more than enough to combat Hiraishin, in my opinion.

I'm not saying that Nagato should or does have those jutsu. If it was said that Nagato mastered every element, lets atleast give him a basic jutsu consisting of each element. That would only be fair, considering a path was taken from him.

So far, We've seen Nagato use Water and Wind, but we know that he can use them all.

Seen elemental jutsu -

- Rain Tiger at Will Technique - Could be used to help keep an eye on where minato teleports.

- Water Release: Violent Water Wave - Can be used to knock away things that are thrown at him.

- Wind Release: Violent Wind Palm - Could be used as a substitute for shina tensie (maybe). Can also be used to enhance the throwing speed of Nagato's projectiles, or to slow minato's projectiles.

Tools:
Chakra Disruption Blades - If Nagato even manages to pierce Minato with the blade, it's all over. Throwing the blades, and combining the with his violent wind palm could increase the speed it reaches minato.

I want to know something. I want to know how seals are created, and what they're made from. If the seals minato make are made from chakra, that just changes everything, as that would allow Nagato to just absorb seals.

[hakuthehedgehog]

Minato could also summon frogs, he probably wasn't able to use sage chackra, but he we can assume he was able to summon Ma and Pa.

If Tsunade had enough time to release her healing technique and protect herself against ST, I'm assuming Minato would be able to do the same. Leaving Nagato unable to use ST for a while, and giving Minato a opportunity to attack.

We can assume that Minato can summon Ma and Pa sure, but it would take as much time as it took Jiraya, leaving Minato vulnerable to Nagato's summons and attacks.

Also, Tsunade had time to see the destruction happening before it reached her ( Pain was far away), not to mention Pain pretty much said he was going to attack her again.

[Rikudou Sennin]

You didn't get my point: when Minato threw the kunai (or kunai salvo most likely), Nagato would ST them all away along with Minato.

The time Minato takes to get up again is more than enough for Nagato to summon the chameleon and hide on his mouth.

Minato can only warp summon to a Kunai tag, since there are no Kunai tags far away, Minato could only warp kunais that are near him.
Also, it takes a big toll on his chakra, and again, Nagato can summon them back.

Of course there are no other kunais why should they? Like Minato never left marks anywhere

Whats the point, Minato has acces to the strongest summons in manga.

And it seems you dont get that your point is irrelevant. Minato is not 1 Meter away and throws a kunai, a ninja keeps dinstant at the first glimps of an opponent. Shinra Tensei is not big enough to hit a normal shinobi who keeps distance. And if he makes his attack bigger, Minato sees it coming and uses space time barrier, and only thing which would happen is Nagato wasting a hugh amount of chakra. Just look at chapter 423 and you see the range of Shinra Tensei. No shinobi would get so close to a opponent and throw a kunai or shuriken at the beginning of a battle. Damn man, you dont get this.

We can assume that Minato can summon Ma and Pa sure, but it would take as much time as it took Jiraya, leaving Minato vulnerable to Nagato's summons and attacks.

Also, Tsunade had time to see the destruction happening before it reached her ( Pain was far away), not to mention Pain pretty much said he was going to attack her again.

No damn, summoning them is as fast as gamabunta, SYNCING WITH JIRAIYA IN SAGE MODE TAKES TIME.

Go read and look the damn manga.

No offense but its troublesome to point out obvious basics.