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View Poll Results: Who wins?

Voters
168. You may not vote on this poll
  • Nagato

    52 30.95%
  • Minato

    116 69.05%
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Thread: Nagato vs Minato

  1. #286
    Registered User 上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Well, Jiraiya may have beaten Pain if he knew about his abilities from the start. It's safe to say from multiple accounts that Minato was more skilled than J-man. Naruto was able to beat the six bodies, at a point where was not yet entirely equal to Minato (though he may be now that he mastered the Kyubi).
    Apart from that, Minato is the perfect counter for Shinra tensei, because of his insane speed. He's the fastest shinobi, period. Remember how even the weaker Shinra Tensei has a 5 second cooldown? Those 5 seconds are more like five minutes to Minato. Rasengan your face, just like Madara. That's his reaction time, movement speed, and attack speed. He'll bait a tensei, warp out of the way, and strike in the cooldowns.

    Using Bansho Tenin would be suicidal. That move may be good if you see the opponent approaching so you can attack. But Minato, while he could easily warp out of it, could pretty much wait for the last moment (his reaction time his faster, period) and warp behind him (or anywhere close) and use the momentum to enhance a retaliatory blow from a blind spot.

    I see too many points where Minato overcomes Nagato. If any Shinobi has the versatility to take on Minato, it's Nagato. But he's too stationary. He's too used to being overpowered. His enormous powers destroy anyone, but he's not used to a Shinobi with the finesse to slip past those powers.

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  3. #287
    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member Lelo's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    wow 20 pages

    I say Minato takes this. If Nagato uses shinra tensi then he has to wait 5 seconds to use it again, Naruto figured that out and Im pretty sure Minato would too. And with Minatos speed he would only need a split second to hit his target. He could start off with his summonings to give him time to read his opponent. Either way Minato will find a way to take out Nagato. We just saw him take out a man who uses space/time jutsu without the use of kunais
    Last edited by Lelo; July 19, 2011 at 06:12 PM.

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  5. #288
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted xXan's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    @Delbi

    Quote Quote:
    Umm, no it isn't, its directed outwards, or whatever way Nagato/Deva wants it to be directed. People fall and hit the ground because of gravity, not because ST is pushing them into the ground
    .


    Deva usualy directs it downwords as to maximize the damage, the chanse of this happening to Minato is good enough, so yes he is going to be hitting that ground:
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-423-page-7.html
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-437-page-13.html
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-438-page-6.html

    Quote Quote:
    Wrong again, look what happened when Chouji and his father got hit, they were able to grab chains and tie up Deva.
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-423-page-9.html

    The chains where in there hands... They just got send flying backwards and keep holding the chains...

    Quote Quote:
    Besides that, Minato has shown to have some of the fastest reflexes in the manga. He reacted to the Raikage at full speed, why exactly won't be able to react to ST and Hirashin himself away?
    He can't react to ST as that is a invizible force that acts close to instantly and hits like a bus (if Nagato puts enough power behind it). Raikage was visible even if as a distorsion for some time. Considering Nagato does not have to put his hands up Minato would have no idea when it is coming or not.

    Quote Quote:
    And even if he is still moving, he's going to be moving to a new area where Nagato won't expect him. All he has to do is right himself, Hirashin again somewhere else or Shushin and close the gap on Nagato.
    All the tags would be blown away with Minato, Minato is going to get hit by a BUS (If Nagato puts enough force in it, he can put enough force in it to send frogs 5 stories high flying a football field in distance and brake all there bones ....) so he is not going to have anything to warp right next to Nagato (that is if he is left alive... Bones broken and out of it for sure if its the same ST that almost killed the frogs). Also he is going to "right himself"when all the other peeps in the manga got hit hard? Right...

    @Smerten

    JMan with all the info in the world would die in 5 seconds vs all 6 realms(he can't even use sage mode ...). Naruto never defeated Pein... Where do you people get this stuff? In a fair fight Naruto would have gotten demolished.
    Also Naruto back then not equal with Minato? LOL what? Perhaps in speed ... But aside from that he was. Not only that but he had the entire of Konoha, info from JMan that died to get, 3 huge frogs, 2 elder frogs with insane tech and power on his side... And you are stating not equal to Minato.. LOL.
    Last edited by xXan; July 19, 2011 at 06:18 PM.

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  7. #289
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post

    @Smerten

    JMan with all the info in the world would die in 5 seconds vs all 6 realms(he can't even use sage mode ...). Naruto never defeated Pein... Where do you people get this stuff? In a fair fight Naruto would have gotten demolished.
    Also Naruto back then not equal with Minato? LOL what? Perhaps in speed ... But aside from that he was. Not only that but he had the entire of Konoha, info from JMan that died to get, 3 huge frogs, 2 elder frogs with insane tech and power on his side... And you are stating not equal to Minato.. LOL.
    Nagato himself said that Jiraiya might of won had he had information on the paths from the beginning. He took out 3 paths without any information and you expect him to do worse when informed against all six? Nagato's worse decision in this fight would be to use BT, since Minato would be able to warp away from the pull using Hiraishin and possibly land a counter attack if there is a 5 second interval.

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  9. #290
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Delbi

    .


    Deva usualy directs it downwords as to maximize the damage, the chanse of this happening to Minato is good enough, so yes he is going to be hitting that ground:
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-423-page-7.html
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-437-page-13.html
    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-438-page-6.html



    http://manga.animea.net/naruto-chapter-423-page-9.html

    The chains where in there hands... They just got send flying backwards and keep holding the chains...



    He can't react to ST as that is a invizible force that acts close to instantly and hits like a bus (if Nagato puts enough power behind it). Raikage was visible even if as a distorsion for some time. Considering Nagato does not have to put his hands up Minato would have no idea when it is coming or not.



    All the tags would be blown away with Minato, Minato is going to get hit by a BUS (If Nagato puts enough force in it, he can put enough force in it to send frogs 5 stories high flying a football field in distance and brake all there bones ....) so he is not going to have anything to warp right next to Nagato (that is if he is left alive... Bones broken and out of it for sure if its the same ST that almost killed the frogs). Also he is going to "right himself"when all the other peeps in the manga got hit hard? Right...

    @Smerten

    JMan with all the info in the world would die in 5 seconds vs all 6 realms(he can't even use sage mode ...). Naruto never defeated Pein... Where do you people get this stuff? In a fair fight Naruto would have gotten demolished.
    Also Naruto back then not equal with Minato? LOL what? Perhaps in speed ... But aside from that he was. Not only that but he had the entire of Konoha, info from JMan that died to get, 3 huge frogs, 2 elder frogs with insane tech and power on his side... And you are stating not equal to Minato.. LOL.
    The fight between Naruto & Pain was as fair as Nagato made it. He invaded Konoha looking for Naruto and got what he asked for. Should they have given him a place to relax and a snack when Naruto arrived?

    Also, depending on the size of the shinra tensei, the surroundings, and Minato's distance, he could be made aware that it is coming well in advance based upon the disturbances of his surroundings.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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  11. #291
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    People keep forgetting that Minato appears a slight distance from his Hiraishin seal. Say a kunai is blasted away, he can still appear within that blast radius. For example: M = Minato, K = his special kunai, S = shinrai tensei blast.
    Minato throws a kunai, then Nagato Shinra Tensei's it away: M K S. If it were to get blasted away, the kunai would still be between Minato and the blast, but the moment that happens and Minato teleports, that distance from the seal is more than enough to fall behind the blast of Shinra Tensei after it repels the kunai: K S M. He doesn't teleport in direct physical contact on his seal, but a slight distance from it. Then he can close the distance with his insane base speed which is fast enough to make even Madara impressed and get Nagato. I really doubt Nagato can perform seals faster than Minato can ninja step to Nagato.

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  13. #292
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    he doesn't know about the 5 seconds,although he would understand quickly. anyway nagato can use a shinra tensei every 5 seconds,but during these seconds he can use other pain's techniques,remember he used other techniques when deva pain was resting for the 5 seconds,and nagato was the one who,in the same time,used the techniques of the 6 pains.
    yeah and minato would still be able to make it in time to get him. nagato would most likely try to dodge the kunai like he did against chouza and chouji and then minato can use hirashin version two to attack from a blind spot once it passes him.

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  15. #293
    Registered User MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted ninjabot's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    I usually place speed above most attributes when it comes to these threads. But usually when I do the ninja has offensive options that make said speed truly deadly. I'm not sure Minato has that thanks to only displaying the ability to cut you, or hit you with a Rasengan. I don't think it's enough to give him the win against someone with Nagato's repertoire.

    Both ninja have summons, but one of them has what seems to be a near inexhaustible chakra reserve. One ninja can take away summoning contracts, but Nagato doesn't use summoning contracts. I think it's his access to all chakra paths that allows him to summon, and not the fact that he has a blood pact, because quite simply, it's not his blood within the corpses. The blood belongs to the corpses. I could be wrong, as we don't know the specifics behind building a realm body... but we do know they are all corpses that only have the powers they DO have thanks to the influence of the Rinnegan.

    That said, I seriously don't think Minato can restrict Nagato's summons because he can't restrict the Rinnegan, which is responsible for the summons. Not his blood.

    Minato has Rasengan and Taijutsu, complemented by his speed as said before, but... the Rasengan can be absorbed from any direction and the kunai can be repelled with ST. Nagato has no other realms watching his back this time so an attack from behind could work, but if he's summoned the Enma monster ghost thingy he could simply heal, having himself restored everytime he's injured (can that summon be harmed? I was of the opinion it was incorporeal like a ghost, but I could be wrong).

    Minato can set up tags around the battlefield, or even on Nagato... but the ability to absorb ninjutsu likely nullifies that. And if he were to use Hiraishin to escape ST, he'd have to know to run away rather than closer (say, to Nagato's backside) or else he'd run headfirst into the other side of the wave and take himself out. Even still, if he teleports far back, but not far enough, he could still get railroaded by the shockwave.

    Anyway, Nagato seems to like watching as his backup protects him, so I dont' see any reason why he would'nt spam summoning giant summons from jump street. Problem is they have zero chance of hitting Minato at all based on their size and his speed. I'm guessing a sure kill would be to activate Chibaku Tensei from the back of his giant stork for the win.

  16. #294
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    Using Hirashin at the same time you get hit with ST is very hard because of the shock of getting hit by that thing. Using Hirashin would not stop the momentum he would get from ST and on the other side(after the teleport) he would hit the ground/tree/whatever hard. Using Hirashin after the hit and then go back to replicate Raikage feat is also imposible as the kunai would fly back to and he would also have the momentum generated by ST making it very hard to do anything after the teleport. Nagato himself is insane fast and would have no problem jumping back or doing something to stop a direct contact with Minato.
    Nagato can also notice and destroy the tag with his rinnegan seeing ability and his anti jutsu shield.
    When did Nagato showcase such incredible speed? Link please. Thank you

  17. #295
    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Nagato showed good speed when he saved Konan from Hanzou and company. He took damage, but his speed was enough to save him from taking fatal damage, and Konan was unharmed. I am not saying he is anywhere near Minato level, but he is not slow either.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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  19. #296
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikudou Sennin View Post
    Thats what you guess. You have no proof of Minatos abilities. Dont forget he already sweat while holding down the kyuubi and holding up that secret barrier. Dont forget, we dont know how much chakra it took minato to hold down the kyuubi. Judging from the look of his face, it took a huge amout. Jet, he sealed kyuubi, thought Tobi, used barriers here and there, teleported with a thing half big as your village (which takes a huge amout of chakra). I wouldnt be surprised to learn that Minatos chakra reserves are nearly as big as Narutos or Jiraiyas, he is Narutos father after all.

    Unfortunately, it was already hinted by Kishimoto that Minato can use Sage Mode.Its not just about chakra reserves but the ability to gather it.

    How many times people wrote concerning how theres no "proof".Some people just need to be spoon fed answers for relatively obvious conclusions.
    I voted for Minato over Nagato in this particular fight. However, that doesn't mean that I agree that he was capable of Senjutsu/Sage Mode. Where did Kishi give a hint of Minato doing Sage Mode? LINK please.

    If he were capable, Minato would've done so. Plus, Fukasaku himself said that it was only Jiraiya and Naruto who's capable of sage mode TRAINING because of the great chakra requirement associated with that mode.

    I don't doubt that Minato had a large chakra pool. However, this might not be large enough to compensate for senjutsu training. Though at the very least, we could all speculate if Minato can do Sage mode, existing evidence in the manga (implied, stated, or shown) leans to the direction that Minato can't.

    ---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by jdw View Post
    Nagato showed good speed when he saved Konan from Hanzou and company. He took damage, but his speed was enough to save him from taking fatal damage, and Konan was unharmed. I am not saying he is anywhere near Minato level, but he is not slow either.
    I agree to some extent. He's not slow. But I doubt IMO we can view that speed as incredible. Just want to clear that up. On the same note, can we say that his shunshin speed is comparable to Sasuke or Itachi? If yes, then I might change my mind Thanks, anyway for the link JDW.

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    Registered User 伝説メンバー / Densetsu / Legendary Member jdw's Avatar
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    From just that, I'd be hesistant to say he is on Sasuke/Itachi level either. It isn't really enough to put him in the speed elite, but it is enough to show he has speed talent, imo.

    Naruto War Tracker: 2 days of combat, 63 chapters, 40,000 alliance soldiers lost (50%). Significant alliance characters lost: 0

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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Delbi View Post
    So they are at ground level? What does that matter? Minato appears near them, which means he can appear above them moving parallel to the ground, where he can move his body and land on the ground.

    Also, if he gets ST'd, what is stopping him from throwing another kunai and using Hirashin to go to that one? Or better yet, use that one as feint to trick Nagato, only for him to Hirashin somewhere else and then blindside him?
    Agreed. People are forgetting how, for someone as fast as Minato, can exploit 5 FRIGGIN' SECONDS!.

    1. Minato throws a kunai.
    2. Nagato uses S'T.
    3. Minato hiraishin's to the ST-ied kunai so he is also thrown to the same direction into as that ST-ied kunai.
    4. In mid-air, he throws another kunai, Nagato tries to dodge the kunai but Minato appears there.
    5. Rasengan to the FACE.

    Reread the fight between Kakashi and Deva Pein.

    ---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xXan View Post
    @Delbi




    It matters because the force of ST is directed downwords. Minato apearing above the kunai would place him half a meter above the ground and crush in it. Up to now NOBODY was able to do what you sugest (the land part).



    Because up to now nobody was able to do anything after they get hit by the ST even trow a kunai in that time(even if that would be a good way to try to kill Deva in that window). I am sure people would have tried to do something if they could ... You get blasted by ST and a split second later you hit the ground, there is no time to trow a kunai or even move yourself to roll so to hit the ground more gently. When you get hit with that much force you are shoked for that interval. Think about it the force of ST is big enough to destroy buildings.
    You can add to this the fact that all kunai in the area will be hit so Minato will have no idea where he is teleporting to (position of the kunai in corelation to the ground). Hell he could get hit by ST teleporting back to some kunai and then get hit AGAIN by the same ST as the force moves slower then a instant teleport.
    I agree, that this MIGHT possible the first time Minato attacks. But just as Kakashi did, he will figure out the trick behind the jutsu and exploit it the second time.

    For all we know, Minato knows exactly to which kunai he would appear next.

    ---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mattiaildivino View Post
    he doesn't know about the 5 seconds,although he would understand quickly. anyway nagato can use a shinra tensei every 5 seconds,but during these seconds he can use other pain's techniques,remember he used other techniques when deva pain was resting for the 5 seconds,and nagato was the one who,in the same time,used the techniques of the 6 pains.
    So after ST-ing a kunai, Nagato will follow it up with with summoning or whatever jutsu within the 5-second window? Probably. But knowing his behavior in battle, I doubt he would. Exploitation of the 5 second window, or even shorter is what Minato needs to pawn.

  22. #299
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    Well, Jiraiya may have beaten Pain if he knew about his abilities from the start. It's safe to say from multiple accounts that Minato was more skilled than J-man. Naruto was able to beat the six bodies, at a point where was not yet entirely equal to Minato (though he may be now that he mastered the Kyubi).
    That's faulty reasoning. Both Naruto and Jiraiya had critical options available to them that helped against his abilities that Minato doesn't have. And even with those options, they still had a considerable time facing the abilities of the Rinnegan.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    Apart from that, Minato is the perfect counter for Shinra tensei, because of his insane speed. He's the fastest shinobi, period. Remember how even the weaker Shinra Tensei has a 5 second cooldown? Those 5 seconds are more like five minutes to Minato. Rasengan your face, just like Madara. That's his reaction time, movement speed, and attack speed. He'll bait a tensei, warp out of the way, and strike in the cooldowns.
    Minato's the fastest shinobi due to Hiraishin, which is moot in this situation. Base speed wise, he's fast, but nowhere near as fast as with Hiraishin. Nagato can easily defend himself in those five seconds. If he can dodge the FRS and stab two clones with his chakra rods in a single seconds, he can defend against Minato. Not to mention he'll have a hard time even learning of the five second limit, meaning he'll have no way to plan to take advantage of it before Nagato summons his creatures and make it even harder for Minato to figure it out. With no knowledge of the cooldown, Minato's not gonna be able to take advantage of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    Using Bansho Tenin would be suicidal. That move may be good if you see the opponent approaching so you can attack. But Minato, while he could easily warp out of it, could pretty much wait for the last moment (his reaction time his faster, period) and warp behind him (or anywhere close) and use the momentum to enhance a retaliatory blow from a blind spot.
    Using Bansho Tenin would be fine. To use Hiraishin, Minato has to realize he's in danger first and we have seen twice that he can be caught off guard. If Nagato uses it at the right moment, he'll be able to catch Minato off guard and grab his head, at which point Minato would be dumbstuck and unable to do anything while his soul is ripped out. And without any tags near him, Minato would have no way to teleport anywhere near Nagato.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smerten View Post
    I see too many points where Minato overcomes Nagato. If any Shinobi has the versatility to take on Minato, it's Nagato. But he's too stationary. He's too used to being overpowered. His enormous powers destroy anyone, but he's not used to a Shinobi with the finesse to slip past those powers.
    It's the opposite. Minato doesn't have enough to defeat Nagato. Minato's only offensive moves are stabbing with a kunai or hitting with a Rasengan, both close range techniques meaning that he has to first get close to Nagato to employ them. But since Nagato can not only keep a good distance between him and Minato, he can if his chooses hide inside his invisible chameleon while Minato get's worn down from running around. And Nagato isn't too stationary. Even Deva Path was quite mobile against Kakashi and Naruto.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lelo View Post
    I say Minato takes this. If Nagato uses shinra tensi then he has to wait 5 seconds to use it again, Naruto figured that out and Im pretty sure Minato would too. And with Minatos speed he would only need a split second to hit his target. He could start off with his summonings to give him time to read his opponent. Either way Minato will find a way to take out Nagato. We just saw him take out a man who uses space/time jutsu without the use of kunais
    The thing is that Naruto didn't figure it out. He was told it. Kakashi was teh one who figured it out and he was only able to do that because it was the only ability that Deva Path was using. Nagato's not Deva Path. He's not only going to be using Shinra Tensei and Minato's not just gonna be able to sit on the sidelines watching him. Nagato has all the means he needs to force Minato to keep in motion and distracted so that he can't figure it out. The toads would be nothing in front of Nagato's summons. It was already shown that the dog summon alone could preoccupy all three giant toads, much less it along with Nagato's seven other summons. And finally, Nagato holds the ability to completely negate Minato's means of attack, meaning that even if Minato got close, he couldn't do any major damage. But there's no way Minato would be able to get close enough to threaten Nagato.

    Quote Originally Posted by DementedKirby View Post
    People keep forgetting that Minato appears a slight distance from his Hiraishin seal. Say a kunai is blasted away, he can still appear within that blast radius. For example: M = Minato, K = his special kunai, S = shinrai tensei blast.
    Minato throws a kunai, then Nagato Shinra Tensei's it away: M K S. If it were to get blasted away, the kunai would still be between Minato and the blast, but the moment that happens and Minato teleports, that distance from the seal is more than enough to fall behind the blast of Shinra Tensei after it repels the kunai: K S M. He doesn't teleport in direct physical contact on his seal, but a slight distance from it. Then he can close the distance with his insane base speed which is fast enough to make even Madara impressed and get Nagato. I really doubt Nagato can perform seals faster than Minato can ninja step to Nagato.
    Two problem. the first is you're presuming that Minato would be teleported on the inside, instead of the outside. But the second is that you're talking as if Shinra Tensei is just a thin wave. But Shinra Tensei is a sustained force. We saw this during his fight with Naruto. If it was just a thin wave, then it couldn't have applied force to to the six tail Kyuubi or Naruto being braced by his clones. So it wouldn't matter if Minato teleported on the opposite side of the kunai, he would still be hit by the still flowing Shinra Tensei and thrown back.

    Quote Originally Posted by decadoh View Post
    Agreed. People are forgetting how, for someone as fast as Minato, can exploit 5 FRIGGIN' SECONDS!.

    1. Minato throws a kunai.
    2. Nagato uses S'T.
    3. Minato hiraishin's to the ST-ied kunai so he is also thrown to the same direction into as that ST-ied kunai.
    4. In mid-air, he throws another kunai, Nagato tries to dodge the kunai but Minato appears there.
    5. Rasengan to the FACE.

    Reread the fight between Kakashi and Deva Pein.
    Reread the final confrontation between Deva Path and Naruto. Nagato was able to react and dodge the FRS while stabbing two clones mere feet from him in a single second. There's no way he couldn't react to Minato in that same timeframe coming from a couple yards away.

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    Registered User 英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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    Re: Nagato vs Minato

    Of course, every time that the window has been relevant, the other bodies have been incapacitated, so he didn't have any other abilities to fall back on...in this battle, we're assuming that Nagato has everything but Asura Path (weapon guy), right? I would think that with S/T deflecting the initial toss of kunai, he'd be able to defend with summons. Not to mention that CQC is pretty risky, since he can absorb your chakra/any ninjutsu.

    And of course, once he witnesses Hiraishin once, I would think that he'd get more defensive, seeing as how he can actually fly around in the air AND can still launch attacks from a distance.

    Also, is Nagato allowed to summon Gedo Mazo?

    ---------- Post added at 02:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------

    Wow, while I was dallying about, Rikudou King put up a very nice rebuttal, lol

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