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Translations: Gintama 515 (2)
The Previous Lord: "Marry my daughter Raizel"
Raizel: "I decline."
The current Lord:
Everybody else in the room:
*Fade to black as the current Lord throttles her father's disembodied soul*
Last edited by Jammin; July 27, 2011 at 03:33 PM.
That's really the only thing, that raises a flag for me. If he was loyal or respectful to Rai, then why never defend him?
---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------
Oh, top of this page! ~ The Traitors Too! ~ Thanks Charlie.
I had forgotten, thinking the current Lord had slayed them > or > by now they had aged and died. However, [from memory] they were mentioned as if they had snuck away and not been caught. So if Gejutel is alive and well, then there is no reason to assume that ages has eliminated them either???
New suspects O.o? ~ We don't know what really happened yet...
~ Though we ^see^ Gejutel-nim blames the current Lord directly for everything that happened...!!!
A member here wrote this off, "as how clever of him, to test and prepare The Lord & Clan heads for after he was gone", but I didn't read it that way. ~ To me I figured he was just getting some things off his chest before he died. So that his last breath would hold no grudges. ~ Until this point, he had allowed all the blame to be placed or directed toward someone who was asleep? But in this chapter he even clearly says, that Raizel-nim was the previous Lord's pick to be the next Noble Lord.
See underlined, doesn't this mean that Gejutel fostered the conflict, and wanted them to fight when they met?
Well it still goes deeper. But again. Gejutel does not blame those who escaped. He blames the current Lord for not noticing and the current clan leaders for not questioning things beyond what they were told. Perhaps they preferred not to know, and accepted false or shallow truths. In my experience a leader will happily cover their ass by accepting lies or feigned ignorance from their workers. ~ In reality, Reagan did the same which lead to the Iran Contra. He was by not means the first or last to make this mistake willfully or preferably do so. ~ Plausible deniability is all most people care about = but that is far from being innocent or honest about things.
Last edited by Otters11; July 28, 2011 at 02:27 AM.
at this point the story can turn out to anything and gejutel is still one of the most suspicious person for me(he can even be the mastermind)
first let's pose some good question
QS1. according to Gejutel the clan leaders have betrayed the current Lord because of her shortcoming as Lord but things seem not so simple as that, like something much more bigger lurk behind all this
i think the old lord may have foresaw some big shadow that will come after his eternal sleep that his daugther will not be enough to deal with that, and only someone strong and unshakable like Rai could make it, and planned to make Rai and the Lord face the shadow together, thats why there is two Rgnarock, or because for the time being Rai could not be found and his daughter will need Ragnarock cause its also a symbol but i prefer the first option
i really hope the old Lord will say that but i think it will be only as a joke for starting the message, i think the old Lord will talk about what he had foresaw and what he want them to do, after i think the current Lord will continue to be Lord and Rai will be like a second Lord to guide her even if her last word in chapter 195 seemed like someone who is abandoning the throne to Rai and the chapter 196 might also be the start of a long flashback til chapter 200 or more
QS2. how come the Alliance was in possesion of Rai coffin and how long they had it, and they seemed not to know what was in it (or have they already got Rai blood for experimente and there is a clone of Rai in strength waiting for us in the future), who take the coffin out of Lukedonia. we might have some clue or maybe discover who made it, the fact that the coffin could not be find imply that someone in the pure blood was involed but the fact that the Alliance was in possession of it make it hard to be part of the old Lord plan
anyway im waiting for the next chapter
Okay, the last 3 pages of hardcore discussion were too much for me, I've just read the wedding joke and
Also loved how Franken just goes, I'm sure you all knew the old lord wel right and then it's just the lord like
I am really good at predicting huh
As for Gejutel: Why is he a traitor? I doubt it, really. Gejutel and Frankenstien both had no idea where Rai was and what Rai was doing 350 years ago; they were all searching for him so if the enemy betrayed the current Lord how do they even defend Rai if they can't even find him?
For Gejutel; he probably has refused to join his Lord in Eternal sleep because there is unfinished business, probably some secret message from the lord (he wasn't one of the most trusted Clan leaders for nothing) once Rai had returned. And now it's just gonna be some more back story before we go back to the ass kicking.
As for how the Alliance got ahold of Rai's tomb would probably be Crombel sending cronies to go dig up ancient artifacts and look for more pieces of power (like Frankie diary) or something; this was just something that his team found but never managed to report to Crombel otherwise he'd probably be wondering where the casket had gone...Obviously he had told his team to not look at the contents; he'd probably have to eliminate them later if they saw stuff on the scale of Frankie's research documents
Focusing on this Manhwa,
I don't think Crombel has any connection to Rai's coffin or place or rest. By default, someone within the Union does, since it was taken from them. And because two low ranking Union people were sent to find who stole it. The question is, 1. were they low ranking because the person in charge of it did not want to tip off how important it was. 2. Or were they low ranking because no one had yet discovered the importance of the coffin???
The answer must be 1. Because the people behind the uninformed coffin thieves or people behind the "dead drop" point, didn't do anything in small measure. They bought an entire vacant Condo or office building using cash, without leaving a paper trail. And arranged a theft from a huge conglomerate organization we know of as The Union or Organization. [I've gotten confused as to the correct word.]
Was it someone from within the company? Because the info had to come from within the company. Or was it on the level of being Espionage, where an outside interest, found out the location of this item they were looking for, and made arrangements for it to happen?
Really if I was within the group Crombel comes from as shady and splintered as them seem to be from each other, I might imagine, that if a person had any inkling they would have sent pros to recover it. And been hush hush. Cause we saw three of four level under Crombel become involved, that were all separate from each other, and not reporting directly to the top. It's hard to imagine this chain of command is unique to him in the group from which he comes.
Chicken or the egg. This could go on for a while. All I meant to say is...I don't think Crombel is connected to Rai's coffin. However I might wonder about that General. Because Crombel's activities have clearly affected his plans. But even then I doubt it was him. There must have been some sort of sedative Used on Rai to keep him asleep for so long. And the drop point didn't have anything else around....So I might imagine it was in the interest of the entity behind the theft, to be arranging for the recovery not just the object/coffin, but also of Rai into the waking world.
It's hard to imagine there are a lot of empty box collectors in the world. Or that even among them, none would open a box of this size, to look inside. So....someone somewhere must have known what was inside the sleeping place, was not human, and may even have know it to be an individual named Raizel. ~ Again, something outside of Rai's own biology must have kept him asleep for that long.
Last edited by Otters11; July 28, 2011 at 03:24 AM.
It seems like the Lord and the other clan leaders are not fully aware of the existence of Noblesse. Their expressions when they learned who Rai is from Gejutel showed me that, I think. Then, thinking back, obviously it would be hard for Gejutel to defend Rai about him not involved in the rebel because they seem didn't know about him, and Rai's coffin was lost to the human world and Gejutel didn't know where it was until he had to go to see Regis and Seira, and also because before he departed, Rai told him not to expose the fact that he had woken up. Talking about Rai would be much more effective when he is present in front of everyone and verify the truth himself.
Wow i always complain that Noblesse is slow but this one kind a proved me wrong, a lot of plot movement this chap. the lord got to eat a little info s taht the general readers know and we get to know some stuffs.
Next issue will deal with the Lords message , thats kind a reassuring i am dying to know what he has kept instore for Rai, and does it in any way mandate the other ragnarok on rai
it's not the time to say that but i want a new charachter intruction. i think everyone will admit it that Raizel Knight has a lack of female fighter, beside Seira who will eventually join the R.K there is no other female in the group, that is why if there will be a new person in the R.K i would like a female who look like Mary and being pure blood could be a plus
Hail, Canada! `lol I like your thinking. But Siera is the head of her Clan, not a supporting character.
The thing that has been bothering me, is just how few Nobles or clans we've seen. They made it sound like Siera was the very last person in her clan. How is she to revitalize her household? And I think I've only seen 6 Clans represented when I try to recall everyone...and only one seemed to have a brother or someone else to support and help lead the clan. Raizel doesn't have a clan, but he still has Frankie as his aide.
This story really needs to explode and bloom out after finding out what the prior Lord has to say. Otherwise it really will feel out of balance or lacking, the way Tirache is already trying to fix it. The question is how many other groups are there to represent? Some started a Wereworlf thread. But now that we are looking at the leadership of various races, there has got to be more than the Humans, Nobles, and Lycans? So in a way Mr T is right. Something is missing. I hope they add it soon.
As for Siera i think she is probably the very last of her clan, or close to it. That sense of "loneliness" seems like it's part of her character.
As to the problems posed by the low noble population, they are technically vampires(sorta). So they could have other methods of replenishing their ranks, like passing on bloodlines to mortals or something of that nature. That tends to go hand in hand with vampire mythology.
Last edited by Jammin; July 30, 2011 at 09:12 AM.
I think what makes the story pretty slow or lack things at the moment like what you feel is the fact that it's been concentrated too much on the nobles, Rai, and the lord. Suddenly we forget the human and the Union with them, and whether werewolves exist or not and what they are doing if they still exist, and such. The world is 'shrunk' to Lukedonia only. Personally, I think that is what missing at the moment. The connection of all knowledge we have gained so far with the other side of the story. I hope the next chapters would cover more about this; starting with the Lord's dying message for Rai. ^__^
Korean 196 is out by the way. earlier than usual :3
edit. comic.naiver site, according to google translator lol, is overcapacitating, just refresh or wait :P
Last edited by MidnightAngel; August 01, 2011 at 10:42 AM.