The Stereotyping of Terrorism

[M3J]

As said before by my contemporary thinkers (or close to it), terrorism is not defined by who, but by what. It doesn't matter whether it was a Norwegian doing it or a citizen not of Muslim religion doing it, what he did was terrorism. It's a shame Muslims are immediately blamed (I'm another one of the ones that thought of Muslims/Al-Quaeda), even worse that the term "terrorist" applies to them. Just because minority is a dick doesn't mean all of 'em are.

[HegemonKhan]

for me, my definition of terrorism is very different, it's very specific. Whereas, it's used broadly by many of you.

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Mass Murder Domestic-Criminal Violence:

Norway guy whatever his name is, brev?...
the shooter of congress woman giffords whatever his name is, laughner?...
timothy mcveigh? (unabomber - oklahoma city bomber), whatever his name is
KKK in the past
Mafia in the past
Wild West outlaws in the past
Mobs
Gangs
Midddle East and North African countries police/military forces (as well as every counties' police/military forces too)...
Africa's "nightmare/hell"
etc...

Terrorism:

Islamic genocidal war effort of war atrocities of blowing up innocent people all over the world, anyone who kills in the name of Allah/Jihad/Islam/Middle East/etc...

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why, terrorism can not be used loosely, I mean come on... a kid who bullies another kid... is also a "Terrorist", as he is "terrorizing" too...

that's absurd... Terrorism is unique... specific... and very new.... it's a "war movement of genocide upon the entire world"... which has never before been seen before... never has a group of people waged war on the innocents of the entire world...

and also, we already got a category, domestic-criminal mass violence/murder (this is a "fact of life" in all countries of the world throughout history: CRIME; heinous, mass murdering CRIMES and CRIMINALS), we shouldn't be wrongly grouping terrorism with this either...

just my view of how terrorism is (ought to be) defined/understood as.

[M3J]

Reading your post, I came to this conclusion: you're a racist towards Muslims.

Dictionary.com defines terrorism as this:

the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2.
the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3.
a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

Their definition is better and more accurate than yours. It's quite disgusting to see people saying Muslims should be considered terrorists, but no one else.... Anyone who commits any acts of destruction to make a political statement or to go against the government is a terrorist, no matter what the race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender, religion, or whether they fap with their right hand or left...

[xi0]

Now now...talking about politics can get testy, but that doesn't mean we have to be accusatory people.

I will agree that your "definition" of terrorism serves your thought process more than it is accurate HK

[shaheer]

Well the problem here is look at your self , you are using sam harris to justify the nypothesis Islam today is a death cult, which i seriously take offense on. I expect a mod to be a bit fair. Is sam harris a muslim scholar?
So far the Islamic history is written in arabic the best islamic historical text is called (in my knowledge) al Bidaya wal nihaya. In my experience i hvent seen any one person owning all of the volume of it,.Further more its written in arabic and so is the rest of the Islamic books , most of the critiques of Islam cant even read arabic properly let alone get an exegesis from it, so what we have today is a one sided view where history is written from one perspective and not from the eyes of the Muslims.
When ever a bomb blows the first victims are Muslims and Islam, if a muslim attacks its Islams Fault if a non muslim attacks its the fault of the specific person.
The Muslims in Palestine are fighting for their own territory thats classified BY UN as occupied Palestinian territory yet we see the media coverages mostly blaming the Palestinians not the otherwise
So far hollywood spent their highest no of box office releases on portraying us muslims to be mad mass murderers
i was told few years back that the only race which was attacked more through movies by hollywood were the native americans,.i am sure by now we are the top villians of the world in the eyes of hollywood, given the super fast rate of movie productions.

We Muslims are seen as people who are war mongers and what not
Thats the way the world is, and ppl like sam harris and Pamella Geller and Robert Spencer are th ones who are taken as the source of Islam and understanding what Islam means and has it in for ppl not the Muslim scholars
I suppose

but modern Islam, is not, as Sam Harris aptly calls it: (modern) Islam is a DEATH CULT (HK: of senseless/delusional/pyschotic/crazed/madness mass-worldwide genocide and geocidal maniacs).

is what me and DL and the rest of the 1.6 billion ppl (approx) are

Islamic genocidal war effort of war atrocities of blowing up innocent people all over the world, anyone who kills in the name of Allah/Jihad/Islam/Middle East/etc...

thats a total lie, Islam is not confined to middle east its a universal faith. there is no ruling WHAT SO EVER I REPEAT WHAT SO EVER in islam which says blow up innocent people in the name of Allah/ Jihadi dun know abt middle east or etc as they arent connected to Islam so its not my concern here.
In Islam SUICIDE is a crime, the sucide bombings were popularized by Tamil Tigers not Muslims, yes some ppl does so , and its thie rlack of compliances to Islam not the Fault of Islam
Jihad comes from the Root word Ijtihad(arabic) which means to struggle, strive thats Y in arabic Nerds= Talib un MuJTAHID (ie one who strives hard to study a lot)
similar principles are applied in Jihad. One of the Jihad is to strive against ones inner desires ie to maintain conduct or moral grounds

[earthforge]

Terrorism is the application of TERROR. That's the word breakdown. Typically the art of convincing people has two components - rational thought and terror. Terror is easier, however, so that's why it is used often first by people who hate. Terror was behind the situation in Darfur. Terror was behind this atrocity in Norway. Terror was indeed also used in 9/11. It's even part of the problem we have with modern management, because many CEOs use terror instead of both rational thought and terror.

I'll take shaheer's word for the perspective from a non-terrorist Muslim, which, believe it or not HK, is the majority. (Though I disagree regarding Palestine, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms.)

[HegemonKhan]

Sam Harris criticizes all violent religions, Christianity as well as Islam, and there are religions that aren't violent, like Jainism, as Sam Harris says, ~"The more fanatical a Jainist, the less we have to worry about him/her". Making the point that some religions DO have problems, whereas other religions don't. Christianity was extremely violent in the past, but now Islam is extremely violent today. Crusaders murdered and raping everyone as they trekked towards Jerusalem in the past, and now it's Islamic Terrorists today blowing up innocent people today and their despotic govs with their police slaughtering people, raping women, and torturing kids, and psychotic mobs frenziilied raping female journalists and reporters. Very inhuman, very ravenously animalistic.

ah, this was during Egypt's "wonderful" celebration... I guess they got a bit too "celebratory", eh?

(I'm sorry, but when Middle Easterners' continually comitting pyschotic acts over and over again, what's a sane person to otherwise think of them? The Middle East, -and Africa too-, behaves as one giant a criminally insane asylum)

Lara Logan, CBS reporter, RAPED:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO12X1nhzzk

--

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12510289

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2...pt_reporte.php

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_823677.html

http://hillbuzz.org/2011/02/16/news-...by-muslim-mob/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjcevVwh6ww

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also, I never quantified how many Muslims are terrorists, and of course only a tiny percent are, as Islam is a very popular religion.

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Many Muslim scholars and/or Koran scholars actually say that the Terrorists understand Islam the best, that they are acting upon the Koran's words. Sam harris calls the Koran, ~"A war diary by a military general, Muhammad".

I myself can't speak about it, as I don't know the Koran nor Arabic/Farsi.

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as I said in my previous post, in history class I did learn about the original Islam, the "Dais-Islam" (forgot how its spelled/called now, argh), and this was a very peaceful Islam, but the Islam of today is certainly not peaceful.

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Also, I speak from the actions done by the Middle East, let's be blunt, the Middle east is the only violent spot on the Earth (excluding the crime in Mexico with their drug lords and such) that isn't peaceful, we're so close to finally having peace on Earth, if it wasn't for the Middle East.

Also, Middle Easterners made themselves rightfully hated, as, as a human being and people, you don't going around blowing up innocent people, we have every right, and in our sanity, to condemn Islam and its violent genocidal Terrorism upon the world, it's a cancer to the world that needs to be wiped out completely.

again, as Sam Harris aptly calls Islam, it's a "Death cult", celebrating senseless-brainless vile genocide.

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please listen to Sam Harris' rational arguments (he's a philosopher, philosophy is a SCIENCE, he's a rational scientist and not an emotional bigot towards religions, be it Christianity or Islam or whatever else) in their entirity, I provided some links of his discourses in my previous post.

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again I highly disagree with everyone's "wishy wash" definition of Terrorism, trying to reduce it to mere crime.

every crime is an "act of terror", and crime has existed far longer than Terrorism, as I said, Terrorism is a new phenominom (can't spell), crime is an ancient one, I don't understand why people are replacing Crime with Terrorism, they're two entirely different things.

Also, there's a difference between a civil war/unrest/violent protest and Terrorism as well.

The Norway guy was merely a violent domestic protestor/criminal of Norway's embrace of Muslims. That is not Terrorism. We, in the U.S., had a guy who flew a plane into an IRS or like building (I can't remember if anyone was killed, or how many), as he was doing so in some kind of protest as well. This is not terrorism. Muslims blowing up Muslims in the Middle East is not Terrorism either, its civilil war or civil unrest or violent protests, whatever you wanna classify it as, but it is not Terrorism.

Terrorism is when you go blow up other countries for no reason at all but senseless genocide like the Joker, "just wanting to see the world burn", there's nothing human about this, it's a Psychotic Death Cult, a cancer upon the world that must be eliminated. It's the Kishins' Madness in Soul Eater, in our real world. Terrorist Monsters vs Humanity of Earth.

And let's not leave out Hitler's Germany 2011, Amadinjad's+Iotola's Iran... Europe again is as clueless as they were when the German tanks rolled out to take over Europe... sighs... making the exact same stupid mistake and nievity as their great grandparents, grandparents, or parents... just wait for Iran to nuke someone... starting nuclear wwIII... if that doesn't wake up the U.S. out of its european stupor, then nothing will...

[xi0]

Peace all over the world except for the Middle East?...that's just completely incorrect, so I don't even know what to say to that.

Middle Easterners did not make themselves hated. That's blaming a billion for the acts of a hundred.....that's awful math.

The debate over religion's promotion of violence is another can of worms...

It's not wishy-washy, it's the definition of terrorism. The act of fostering terror in someone or a body of people. When it gets into the criminal arena, it's still a broad term. You're acting as if terrorism is only perpetrated by Muslims in reaction to Western influence. This is simply not the case. You're defining terrorism to suit your perspective. No one here is saying what Islamic Extremists do isn't terrorism, but to say what happened in Norway wasn't the same thing is factually incorrect. It's not even slightly a matter of opinion. Saying that there's a difference only legitimizes what either of these insane psychopaths do. Was the OKC Bombings not terrorism?...you're really off-base here in my opinion.

[Akainu]

I wanted to reply to you Hege, but sorry I can't take your way of argumentation anymore. I feel like I'm talking to a wall. You claim to be rational and yet your conclusions are the most irrational. you calim to be precise and accuse our definition of terrorism to be wishy washy and in the next sentence it's you who does just that by stating every crime is terrorism. seriously?

[HegemonKhan]

well, we obviously have very different opinions/worldviews then...

and excuse me, but my, and many others' who share the same worldviews, conclusions and arguments are very rational based upon the actions being done, saying they're not simply because you don't agree is quite offensive. V.V

They make a lot of sense to many people, many people feel this way as well. The whole world doesn't think as many Europeans and American liberals do.

It doesn't make sense to me and others who think as I do, as the world seems to be in a state of "see no evil, hear no evil, and etc", constantly trying to justify evil and psychotic behavior, blind to the madness in the world coming from the Middle East and its Islam and its dictatorships or dictator theocracies.

let's look at the "beloved" U.N., the "Great Unified World Gov", all this awful genocide is going on all over the world, and it does NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING. SHAME ON THEM, SHAME ON EVERYONE WHO BELOVES the U.N. The U.S. is trying to do something all by itself, even at the cost of its own economy, the U.S. the HERO of the entire world, and the world is so delusional, it can't even thank us, the U.S., no they keep praising the U.N., for what..... I can't know for the life of me... the U.N. has done utterly nothing for world peace, it has genocidal countries as members of its sucrity council, what legitimacy. The only place that has been a hero and leader is the U.S., the U.N. and the world's worship of it is utterly delusional, as, as the world praises the U.N. millions of people are being genocidally slaughtered and butchered like animals. Many people in the world couldn't see Hitler's Germany, and they still can't see today's Terrorism either. HOW DISGRACEFUL!

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yes, the world is peaceful, if it wasn't for the middle east. The middle east is the only place still waging genocidal war in (and on) the world. We're so close to finally achieving world peace, yet we got the middle east ruining it. So, it's not "enitirely incorrect", at all.

Name another group of people that are going around blowing up the entire world? I can name only one: the Middle East/Islamists/Muslims. I'd love to hear of another! Is this "awful math" on my part too ??

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There is NO definition of Terrorism, and it's near impossible to define as well, actually.

-and I don't think Terrorism (the word/concept) every really existed prior to 9-11.

Here's one such Terrorism definition:

1. http://terrorism.about.com/od/whatis...errorism_5.htm

United States Law Code – the law that governs the entire country – contains a definition of terrorism embedded in its requirement that Annual Country reports on Terrorism be submitted by the Secretary of State to Congress every year. (From U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d)

(d) Definitions
As used in this section—
(1) the term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than 1 country;
(2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;
(3) the term “terrorist group” means any group, or which has significant subgroups which practice, international terrorism;
(4) the terms “territory” and “territory of the country” mean the land, waters, and airspace of the country; and
(5) the terms “terrorist sanctuary” and “sanctuary” mean an area in the territory of the country—
(A) that is used by a terrorist or terrorist organization—
(i) to carry out terrorist activities, including training, fundraising, financing, and recruitment; or
(ii) as a transit point; and
(B) the government of which expressly consents to, or with knowledge, allows, tolerates, or disregards such use of its territory and is not subject to a determination under—
(i) section 2405(j)(1)(A) of the Appendix to title 50;
(ii) section 2371 (a) of this title; or
(iii) section 2780 (d) of this title.

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again, I disagree, Norway was just criminal violence, a Norwegian killing Norwegians, pfft, we have "political TErrorism" all the time in the U.S, assassinations and mass murders... I guess maybe Norway is extremely peaceful, so they don't have the concept of a heinous violent mass murdering CRIME, so to them, this is an "act of terrorism". But, here in the U.S., this is just criminality. MLK Jr. assassination, our presidents assassinations, KKK, our gangs' wars, laughner (if he can even be considered to be acting politically), that guy who flew his small plane into the IRS building, the Anthrax guy, and etc...

if you do bad things to your own country, that is NOT terrorism, it's: Civil War, Civil Unrest, Violent/Mass Murder Protesting, and etc...

Terrorism is completely different, it's, its own unique and new beast. Waging a pseudo-war of genocide upon the world, blowing up innocent women and children, using women suicide bombers, blowing up weddings, blowing up police cadets/trainees, blowing up buses or trains, flying planes into the world trade towers, blowing up planes (Pan Am), genocide and rape upon their own women, and etc.

the Middle East is utterly psychotic in its behavior compared to sane countries. Africa is just as bad too as the Middle East, and there's of course some other countries too, but only the Middle East takes its psychotic behavior upon the world. At least Africa keeps its genocide to its own people, Darfur's horrible but at least they're not taking Darfur to another country/continent.

And... the brutality in Darfur is from the Muslim government vs the African people trying to take back their country from Muslim rule. Much of North Africa is Muslim, and that's why we got the genocide and despotic and/or despotic theocracies there, and in the Middle East.

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Norway and OKC were NOT acts of Terrorism !!! (If the Norwegian guy came here, to the U.S., and did what he did, that cuold possibly be Terrorism, though I'm not too sure about that either... but that's an entirely separate can of worms, as to what qualifies as Terrorism vs a violent act of crime)

violent (mass murder) crimes or if you want civil unrest (violent/mass murdering political protests), which is not Terrorism.

Muslims blowing up Muslims in the Middle East is also *not* Terrorism, as it too is the same as Norway and OKC or the U.S.' Civil War or other large scale periods of politcal unrest.

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Terrorism is not domestic, its foreign/international, a "pseudo-war" of Genocide for the hell of it, "just wanna see the world burn", a death cult that relishes in mass murder, eerily similar to how Hitler too used cultism as well....

Crime or Civil War or Civil Unrest is domestic

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for example, let's compare Terrorism and the IRA, as though both using bombings

the IRA is only bombing the U.K. as a like-civil war between the two countries, much like how the U.S. had its Civil War with the South wanting to become its own country.

the IRA is not going to Germany, to France, to Spain, to the U.S., to Indonesia, to Africa, and etc to blow up innocent people for the sick enjoyment/relishment of genocide, like Islamic Muslims (Terrorists) do.

there's also Chechnia (can't spell) too that has done bombings against Russia as it wants its independence or freedoms from Russia, similar to the IRA with the U.K. and Ireland's bad history and to the North and South in the U.S.

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my problem:

people have no definition of Terrorism, and thus they blur it with crime or war or civil war/unrest, causing there to be no such thing as Terrorism. But, that's so incorrect in my view, Terrorism is very real... and that means it's very wrong to delude it as being a mere criminal act, especially when we already have the concepts and words for that, lol. Terrorism is Terrorism, it's not a crime, its not a civil war, nor is it civil unrest (violent political protest), and lastly nor is it a war.

maybe the best way to describe Terrorism:

Terrorism = International/Foreign Genocidal Madness
-or-
Terrorism = Genocidal "war" upon the world/humanity

[xi0]

well, we obviously have very different opinions/worldviews then...

excuse me, my conclusions and arguments are very rational based upon the actions being done, saying they're not simply because you don't agree is quite offensive. V.V

They make a lot of sense to many people, many people feel this way as well. The whole world doesn't think as many Europeans and American liberals do.

I take exception with you referring to one act of terrorism as terrorism while not doing so for what happened in Norway. Hence me saying opinion hardly factors into it. I'm not saying that your definition is entirely wrong, only that it is too overly precise. The IRA committed terrorism, The Mafia committed terrorism, Gangs commit terrorism, hell the Boston Tea Party was terrorism in a fashion.

yes, the world is peaceful, if it wasn't for the middle east. The middle east is the only place still waging genocidal war in (and on) the world. We're so close to finally achieving world peace, yet we got the middle east ruining it. So, it's not "enitirely incorrect", at all.

Name another group of people that are going around blowing up the entire world? I can name only one: the Middle East/Islamists/Muslims. I'd love to hear of another! Is this "awful math" on my part too ??

I would love to get into a philosophical debate on what "peace" really is, but this isn't the time or place. I guess you're ignoring a large portion the entire continent of Africa, the Wars between the Drug Cartels in Mexico and South America, unrest in the Levant. No one is saying the Middle East isn't volatile.

I can't, because the majority of terrorism being practiced in today's world is done by those who are Muslim or those that refer to themselves as Muslim. That's a fact. What isn't a fact is that all Muslims are jihadists or have these views. It's incredibly close-minded to condemn 1.5 Billion people as terrorists, when it just isn't the case. It's factions within the Middle East, Africa, Central Asia and Southeast Asia that do these things. FACTIONS. I've never met a Muslim who meant me harm.

There is NO definition of Terrorism, and it's near impossible to define as well, actually.

-and I don't think Terrorism (the word/concept) every really existed prior to 9-11.

Here's one such Terrorism definition:

1. http://terrorism.about.com/od/whatis...errorism_5.htm

United States Law Code – the law that governs the entire country – contains a definition of terrorism embedded in its requirement that Annual Country reports on Terrorism be submitted by the Secretary of State to Congress every year. (From U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d)

(d) Definitions
As used in this section—
(1) the term “international terrorism” means terrorism involving citizens or the territory of more than 1 country;
(2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents;
(3) the term “terrorist group” means any group, or which has significant subgroups which practice, international terrorism;
(4) the terms “territory” and “territory of the country” mean the land, waters, and airspace of the country; and
(5) the terms “terrorist sanctuary” and “sanctuary” mean an area in the territory of the country—
(A) that is used by a terrorist or terrorist organization—
(i) to carry out terrorist activities, including training, fundraising, financing, and recruitment; or
(ii) as a transit point; and
(B) the government of which expressly consents to, or with knowledge, allows, tolerates, or disregards such use of its territory and is not subject to a determination under—
(i) section 2405(j)(1)(A) of the Appendix to title 50;
(ii) section 2371 (a) of this title; or
(iii) section 2780 (d) of this title.

If there's no agreeable definition in your opinion why are you trying to define it? Why are you citing US Law when you said in an earlier post that it's not the same as other CRIMINAL action or CRIMES and shouldn't be grouped with them. If it is an act of war, then how exactly does the Law factor into it?

You're speaking of terrorism carried out by Muslim Extremists who hate ALL forms of Western influence. So if a Pakistani terrorist blows up a Mosque in Pakistan, that's not terrorism? But if it's in another country it is? I don't get the discrepancy here, I'm sorry.

---------- Post added at 08:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 AM ----------

Terrorism is completely different, it's, its own unique and new beast. Waging a pseudo-war of genocide upon the world, blowing up innocent women and children, blowing up weddings, blowing up police cadets/trainees, blowing up buses or trains, flying planes into the world trade towers, blowing up planes (Pan Am), genocide and rape upon their own women, and etc.

Is that not domestic? Didn't you just say and repeat that terrorism is not domestic?...

[Akainu]

as far as I know "(2) the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant target" is exactly what some brought up as definition and I still don't see it being wishy-washy and in contrast to "international terrorism" is in fact domestic.

in contrast to your definition it does not limit terror to "the middle east" or "the muslims", but also includes what happend in norway as well as McVeigh. (both of them used violence against noncombatants and had a political motivation /statingtheobvious).

I'm sorry if you feel offended. Many people feeling a certain way surely is rational. The thing is, if your conclusions are not irrational, then your view must be somewhat off. maybe it's just that though, the result of generalizing so much that it already hurts, combined with this - sorry, irrational - focus on "the middle east".

Looking at a map of military conflicts - at least with the traditional definition of "middle east" - it is a rather peaceful region. Only when you take the Bush-born "greater middle east" into account as well as the media attention you probably get for Iraq, Iran and Isreali-Palestinian conflicts it does seem to get into your direction.
However, even if we do so, there's still Africa having lots of violence, the Indian subcontinent and Indochina. You see, just because you perceive islamist (= not islamic) terrorism as the biggest danger does not mean there are no others. World peace, even without the middle east, is far far away

Anyway, guess we're spilling over in quite a few other matters ^^;
I guess we eventually have to agree to disagree on the matter of stereotyping of terrorism. If I understood you right until now you're saying that because some individuals/groups frequently resortet to terrorism, all of "the middle easterns" or "the muslims" have to be suspected of being terrorists? And also that terrorism is something genuinly islamic?
Contrary to that I believe the lawful definition of terrorism does not excempt christian/conservative/socialist/animistic/hinduistic born people and furthermore that a general accusation / suspicion infuriating the peaceful muslims and setting them up against "us".

[xi0]

Plus, how can Terrorism be genocide if they're "blowing up the entire world" and wantonly killing as they please?

[HegemonKhan]

Plus, how can Terrorism be genocide if they're "blowing up the entire world" and wantonly killing as they please?

I don't understand by what you mean? what you're asking?

is not that what genocide is? sensless mass murder?

what do you mean?

do you mean I should replace genocide with XENOcide in terms of blowing up the world? You'd be correct, then

Genocide = killing off a group of people

Xenocide = killing off an entire species

[xi0]

I don't understand by what you mean? what you're asking?

is not that what genocide is? sensless mass murder?

what do you mean?

do you mean I should replace genocide with XENOcide in terms of blowing up the world? You'd be correct, then

Genocide = killing off a group of people

Xenocide = killing off an entire species

Pretty much.

"the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group"

Plus, it's not genocide anyways. The heads of these terrorist groups have more goals than killing off the entire human race. That's hyperbole really. The actions of these terrorists are insane, but not necessarily their reasons for committing these atrocities. It comes back to the whole Terrorist vs. Freedom Fighter argument in some cases, NOT ALL, but some.