Bleach 460 Discussion

[Yami no Serena]

Remember Byakuya and the way he lost to Ichigo..? Didn't you find it odd back when you read the fight...? Byakuya's sword scattered (broke), his resolve was probably pretty low, and I doubt it was purely because of low reatsu. Emotions affect the edge of the sword afterall as Kenpachi explained to Ichigo, well, in his own way anyway lulz.
Also remember that Byakuya confirmed this afterwards, that Ichigo won because of his free spirit.

Byakuya was caught between two touch decisions and Ichigo was free, because he fought with all his resolve/heart.

We also saw this against Kenpachi in SS, emotions had a HUUUUUGE impact whether Ichigo could cut Kenpachi or not, hell Ichigo's sword even broke because Kenpachi's speech scared the hell out of him... His spirit powers did not collect if he did not follow his heart aka resolve.

So it's not fair to say it's something Kubo made up, it's been there all along, even in old school Bleach

That's a good point you make out there. But you forget one important thing. If Ichigo initially hadn't had enough power to cut Kenpachi, then he wouldn't have been able to do this, resolve or not. It's just that his fear dulled his sword, reflexes, resolve, spiritual power etc. But when he found his resolve again, he concentrated on fighting Kenpachi. It's not only the resolve, but also faith that you CAN do it and knowledge that you MUST do it no matter what.
The same thing happened during the fight with Byakuya. Their power level were nearly the same, but Ichigo, compared to Byakuya, was unexperienced. On the other hand, Byakuya didn't really want to win that fight. He fought out of obligation, not because he actually wanted to win. Also, he underestimated Ichigo. Those two factors worked to Ichigo's advantage. Had the circumstances been different, I'm almost sure Byakuya would have won (and, actually, he almost did. Ichigo won only thanks to his hollow's help).
You can look at it like this. If a person needed to jump over the hedge which is higher than his hight, he wouldn't be able to do this. But if we were to give him some motivation (like a huge dog chasing him), we know that thanks to adrenalin rush during such situations people can do increadible things like jumping over a hedge that is higher than them. But now let's change several circumstances - let the hedge be thrice as high as the person and he wouldn't be able to jump over it, no matter his resolve, because his physical abilities (his hight) wouln't allow that.
And now let's take a professional sportsman, a jumper, and he might be able to do this and escape the fierce dog and have more chances to live, because his trained body would allow him to jump that high.

So, what I'm trying to say that resolve is indeed an important thing, but it can only bring you to the bondaries of your abilities. When Ichigo fought Kenpachi, his powers at first were at their lowest, then, when he found his resolve, they came to their highest, but not beyond that what Ichigo was capable of. So, when you train, you broden those bondaries. With the help of " resolve" you just "give it your best" and not "give it your worst".

So, what we are trying to determine is where those bondaries of power lie for Ichigo now.

[Punisher6]

I don't understand, why everyone refer to Ichigo's bankai after Dangai training as Mugetsu?
Mugetsu is an atack like Getsuga Tensho (thus its second name - Final Getsuga Tensho). It's when Ichigo himself becomes Getsuga (a form with black hair) thus firing his own essence.
On the other hand, when he re-emerged from Dangai (with slightly longer hair and Tensa Zangetsu's chain around his hand) - it was just a result of his training, his powers simply evolved. This wasn't Mugetsu, but simply his bankai evolutionised. Remember, he spent 3 month doing nothing but fighting. The same would have happened, had he just trained in an ordinary time space.
So, for me, the fact that his shikai changed is proof enough that his power is somewhere near the level when he left Dangai. And I think that his bankai will look different now, too. Possibly the way it looked after Dangai. Urahara said that after Ichigo lost his powers his body reversed to the way it used to be (his hair became short again, his muscles got smaller, his growth reveresed back). But changes to one's body is not the same as changes to one's soul. I mean, his powers didn't reversed back - they disappeared - and his physical apperances reversed back (his body). But now his powers returned, and because they didn't reversed back but simply disappeared it's perfectly logical that they stay on the same level as before.
(=___= Gosh, I hope I made some sense=___="")

Idk if you read one of my other posts but i completely agree. I was explaining that theres a difference from the final getsuga tensho (Mugetsu being the technique that used all his shinigami powers and thus he lost his powers) and his perfected bankai. i was saying that he should still have his perfected bankai with the katana attached to his hand. The only reason i say that he shouldn't be able to use the mugetsu move is that he'd lose all his powers again unless theres some sort of loophole he finds. Just because he lost his powers temporarily doesn't mean he lost all the progress he made. i hope i am explaining it clearly....

[Shadow]

Idk if you read one of my other posts but i completely agree. I was explaining that theres a difference from the final getsuga tensho (Mugetsu being the technique that used all his shinigami powers and thus he lost his powers) and his perfected bankai. i was saying that he should still have his perfected bankai with the katana attached to his hand. The only reason i say that he shouldn't be able to use the mugetsu move is that he'd lose all his powers again unless theres some sort of loophole he finds. Just because he lost his powers temporarily doesn't mean he lost all the progress he made. i hope i am explaining it clearly....

Don't worry, you are and it is as you say/have said. One thing to keep in mind though, is the title of this arc ambiguous/duplicitous? It is singular: The Lost Shinigami Arc, but Ginjou also has a badge, so is it that he is collecting fullbring powers to recover his own shinigami ability? He may be jealous that Ichigo got the get out of jail card he has to work so hard for so easily, but maybe Ichigo's fullbring may prove enough to recover Ginjou's power. Any thoughts?

[danzouismadara]

So does ichigo have fullbring and shinigami powers now? what about hollow powers? Or is kubo finished with the hollows?

Btw like this post if your stoked for the next chapter within 24 hours!!!!!!


I hope ichigo has a new technique

[ca12nag3]

Don't worry, you are and it is as you say/have said. One thing to keep in mind though, is the title of this arc ambiguous/duplicitous? It is singular: The Lost Shinigami Arc, but Ginjou also has a badge, so is it that he is collecting fullbring powers to recover his own shinigami ability? He may be jealous that Ichigo got the get out of jail card he has to work so hard for so easily, but maybe Ichigo's fullbring may prove enough to recover Ginjou's power. Any thoughts?

the badge is just what it is a badge, there is no evidence yet that Ginjo is that said shinigami. However he does know a lot about Rukia giving him his powers etc, that isnt something you find on wikepedia :P. Unless Chad told everything he knew to him -_-.

As for the badge yea well Rukias capt gave ichigo his badge. So its not that much personally bound so Ginjo could have gotten it off a relative or the allegedly killed shinigami representative. But i do want to find out where its from ^^.

[Quantized]

Idk if you read one of my other posts but i completely agree. I was explaining that theres a difference from the final getsuga tensho (Mugetsu being the technique that used all his shinigami powers and thus he lost his powers) and his perfected bankai. i was saying that he should still have his perfected bankai with the katana attached to his hand. The only reason i say that he shouldn't be able to use the mugetsu move is that he'd lose all his powers again unless theres some sort of loophole he finds. Just because he lost his powers temporarily doesn't mean he lost all the progress he made. i hope i am explaining it clearly....

I'd laugh hard if Ichigo next chapter says Mugetsu against Ginjou and looses all his powers all over again while everyone just watches

[Quantized]

the badge is just what it is a badge, there is no evidence yet that Ginjo is that said shinigami. However he does know a lot about Rukia giving him his powers etc, that isnt something you find on wikepedia :P. Unless Chad told everything he knew to him -_-.

As for the badge yea well Rukias capt gave ichigo his badge. So its not that much personally bound so Ginjo could have gotten it off a relative or the allegedly killed shinigami representative. But i do want to find out where its from ^^.

Yeah that they can make Ichigo's friends tell stories is also a good explanation of that exact plot hole, or perhaps they were ear dropping when Ichigo fought against Renji and Byakuya's funky speech about it. But I like the idea that Tsukishima made them talk though, they'd easier know what they knew in that case..

Also the fullbringers knew he did beat Aizen, but they did not know even how remotely powerful Ichigo was... what the heck...? That doesn't add up unless they got intel from someone who didn't know Ichigo's new power level (His friends didn't see the battle or knew just "how" powerful Aizen had become in the end, nor did they know that Ichigo stamped easily over Aizen).

It really seems like they found someone to tell them all this intel by using Tsukishima's abilities.. but who would it be if that were the case...?

[3c]

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[mattiaildivino]

bah,why are those fullbrings so bastard? at least they aren't much strong,aizen was far away from them. now that I think,I find ginjo's character very similar to hody jones' of One Piece.