Claymore 118 Discussion

[gernot]

As for if the weaker Claymore's survived the intial attack by the three, it depends a bit. Both Hysteria and Roxanne are the sort who like to play with their victims from what I've seen, and Cassandra is not someone who kills cleanly. Also, do they still feel any lingering comaraderie with their fellow warriors? Assuming they ever felt any to begin with? If so they may have held back subconscusly.

I don't know if they would really have held back subconsciously... If they did in fact kill all the AE, and not a single one accidentally survived, then that seems to indicate that any of the warriors that did survive did so because the three wanted it that way. Of course we don't really know which of the three was responsible for the initial attack, it may just have been one of them. For example, Cassandra might not have been involved, since without her technique, she's not really strong enough to have pulled that off. It's possible that it was all Roxanne's doing. It would explain why the warriors survived, since she hasn't killed the twins either, at least so far (and in contrast to Cassandra and Hysteria, she would have easily been able to). As to why Roxanne hasn't killed the twins... she might just want to enjoy herself more, or there may be other reasons (though I doubt that it's compassion). Either way, Roxanne is the only one who regained her memory, and it may mean that she's also more capable of resisting the org's programming and doesn't feel like she has to kill the warriors.

[HegemonKhan]

I made quite a mistake translating the title of this chapter.
Originally I had "The Staff's Life or Death Struggle", but the rule "If it doesn't make sense, it's probably wrong" is a good one. Apparently, "S(u)taf(u)" is the name of the area where the org's headquarters are, so the title should be "The Life and Death Struggle at Staff/Sutafu".
Not quite sure how this name had been translated in the past (not that consistency matters all that much anyway).

(ask and I can give the sources)

Staff, city of the far east (prior to 100 years ago, prior to the Org's arrival) becomes the Org HQs (after 100 years ago, after the Org's arrival)

Manga: Sutare = eastern land
Anime: Sutafu = eastern land

http://mangahelpers.com/forum/showth...apping-Project

North = Alphonse
West = Luatrec
South = Mucha
East = Sutare (manga) or Sutafu (anime)
Central = Toulouse

you actually (based on the prior translations anyways, lol) didn't make a mistake:

Staff is the Org HQs, which is indeed in its (the Org's) "Life and Death struggle" (as well as the attackers-the Rebelling Claymores against the Org, lol).

the eastern land which Staff/Org HQs is in, is called Sutare in the manga and Sutafu in the anime.

so you got it right, though using Staff is a bit ugly... it doesn't really belong... as Staff is now the Org HQs anyways, and few people know that the Org HQs was once the city Staff, city of the far east.

so, I'd personally change Staff to like Org HQs or Organization's fate or Island's fate, lol, as it would make more sense, not be as "ugly"/out of place.

[Khorr]

Well this was rather an intresting chapter. I didn't expect Raftela at all. My first reaction was why didn't the Organization finished off Raftela like many of you guys thought, surely the Organization knows the sure way to kill a Claymore was to lop off her head. After some thinking, I concluded two likely reason the Organization didn't cut her head off.

The first one was that they just wanted punish Raftela for her failure instead of killing her. She failed in her duty for sure but she didn't openly raise her arm against the Organization. That shows that she still had some loyalty to the Organization up till that point. I also think physical punishment of a Claymore that failed in her duty but could still prove to be useful later on was something that the Organization has done before. I think I remember Rubel talking to Rafaela saying "You look like they mopped the floor with you", refering to the Organization as "they" as she lays in the infirmary covered in bandages for failing to control Luciela.

My second theory is, they wanted her to suffer more before she dies. Cutting her head off so quickly would only spare her of her suffering.

I don't know if they would really have held back subconsciously... If they did in fact kill all the AE, and not a single one accidentally survived, then that seems to indicate that any of the warriors that did survive did so because the three wanted it that way. Of course we don't really know which of the three was responsible for the initial attack, it may just have been one of them. For example, Cassandra might not have been involved, since without her technique, she's not really strong enough to have pulled that off. It's possible that it was all Roxanne's doing. It would explain why the warriors survived, since she hasn't killed the twins either, at least so far (and in contrast to Cassandra and Hysteria, she would have easily been able to). As to why Roxanne hasn't killed the twins... she might just want to enjoy herself more, or there may be other reasons (though I doubt that it's compassion). Either way, Roxanne is the only one who regained her memory, and it may mean that she's also more capable of resisting the org's programming and doesn't feel like she has to kill the warriors.

My feeling on Roxanne is... She's my type of girl! Haha I like her, I think she's funny and cute ; unlike the usual Claymore that's all business... but anyway...

I think Roxanne isn't the blood thursty type like the other two revived #1s. I think she's very smart and very calculating and only kills if she has something to gain from it. I mean she didn't shoot streight up to top ranks by having raw abilities say.... like Priscilla or Miata. She done it through a lot of plotting, deceiving, and grinding through the system from a pretty low rank. That took a lot of brain power IMO. She may also have some sort of superiority complex, and doesn't kill people that she views as a none threat, she would just disable them instead. Most of the time she would be all smiles and cherry untill she actually feel like she needs to kill somone. Also she's the only one out of the three that have her memories, so she must be aware of the current situation and is leaving her options open and want to sit on the fence a bit longer. Perhaps the Organization screwed her over that resulted in her own death the first itme, so why fight for them this time around? Third, she knows something everyone don't know (us included) and may be saving her energy for what's to come. So there is no point in killing somone that she think she may need later on.

[HegemonKhan]

if I were to try to defend the Organization or Yagi, I'd say... the BCs (Rimuto) thought the BC spearmen had delivered fatal damage to Raftela, she's dying and would be dead soon, and that does seem to possibly be the case, as the manga does kinda hint that she's just barely hanging on... similar to dying Jean as she uses the last breath and power of her dying life (due to Rigardo's fatal claw through her stomach and probably her "vital Yoma organs") to Yoki Sync and de-Awaken Partially Awakened Clare (if I may remind everyone, hehe), so why couldn't they (the BCs) just leave Raftela to die from her fatal wounds as was seen... they'd not know that she might possibly be saved by maybe these Trainees... if the Trainees do have "Supportive Healing/Regeneration" and not are just holding-helping her stay up and comforting her as she is dying and trying to keep Audrey alive... (what about Nina... though??) that is...

the question is:

is Raftela fatally damaged (like Jean was) or not, did the BC spearmen stab Raftela's "Yoma vital organs", which possibly can't be Regenerated or maybe it can be, or not?

if Raftela is not fatally damaged, then we should question the Organization's or Yagi's "sloppiness".

[Khorr]

the question is:

is Raftela fatally damaged (like Jean was) or not, did the BC spearmen stab Raftela's "Yoma vital organs", which possibly can't be Regenerated or maybe it can be, or not?

if Raftela is not fatally damaged, then we should question the Organization's or Yagi's "sloppiness".

From chapter 114, it looks like most of the spears were aimed at the gut and two spears that went through her torso may have just missed her heart.

[gernot]

I'm actually a little confused why there's such a ruckus about Raftela being alive. The organization didn't mistake her for dead like they did with Miria. They knew she was alive, and imprisoned her, and Raki and the trainees freed her. This is clear because Raki says "How did these guys manage to catch / capture a warrior?", referring to the fact that Raftela had been captured / locked up (or maybe in transit to a cell, guarded by MiB?) In either case, it's clear that Raki freed her.

Surely the org wouldn't have particularly cared if she had died, but since she hadn't and she wasn't a threat, they decided to lock her up instead. Why is that such a surprise?

[Joe7133]

I don't know if they would really have held back subconsciously... If they did in fact kill all the AE, and not a single one accidentally survived, then that seems to indicate that any of the warriors that did survive did so because the three wanted it that way. Of course we don't really know which of the three was responsible for the initial attack, it may just have been one of them. For example, Cassandra might not have been involved, since without her technique, she's not really strong enough to have pulled that off. It's possible that it was all Roxanne's doing. It would explain why the warriors survived, since she hasn't killed the twins either, at least so far (and in contrast to Cassandra and Hysteria, she would have easily been able to). As to why Roxanne hasn't killed the twins... she might just want to enjoy herself more, or there may be other reasons (though I doubt that it's compassion). Either way, Roxanne is the only one who regained her memory, and it may mean that she's also more capable of resisting the org's programming and doesn't feel like she has to kill the warriors.

I doubt this because Roxanne is an opportunist and only seeking power. She doesn't seek friendship. Just remember, she'll smile and laugh with you and when your not looking. She'll stab you with a knife in the back.

[gernot]

I doubt this because Roxanne is an opportunist and only seeking power. She doesn't seek friendship. Just remember, she'll smile and laugh with you and when your not looking. She'll stab you with a knife in the back.

Well, I'm not saying Roxanne does it for friendship. However, it's a fact that she could have easily killed the twins and didn't. I don't think she's keeping them alive so she can steal their soul link or anything like that, so I really don't know what her reasons are. I also don't know why all of the warriors whose technique she stole had to die... I don't see any benefit in that for Roxanne.

Bottom line is: Whatever her reasons, she didn't kill the twins, which may mean that she may also have spared other warriors on purpose during the initial attack.

[Goral]

I've already replied to gernot on Animesuki and he replied to the reply seen below but I'm reposting it here in case someone would like to join the discussion:

@gernot
I think you're forgetting that when they've injured Raftela they knew that trainees have joined the rebellion and were destroying the prison. So putting them there would be stupid (unless she was not put into prison and in a place where there no guards which would be stupid for another reason. And if there were guards I wouldn't see a way for Raftela to escape when she could barely stand). Also these guys explicitly said that they wished they've finished her off properly which makes it clear even better (although, one could look at it that now they're regretting they have imprisoned her instead of killing her). Although it would be very convincing explanation if not for these two things. I was arguing with MalakTawus for couple of pages (it started earlier bu in this post I went into more detail) that it would be more wise to imprison her than kill her since she might come in handy in case zombie #1s turn against them. Read last paragraph if you're interested.

Also Raki couldn't have known they've imprisoned her and in order to do that injured her. He could have as well assume that they've tried to kill her but failed. Unless it's Yagi's sloppy writing showing again. I doubt it is the case though. In addition, why would they imprison someone they supposedly didn't need any more and that has become expandable according to Rimuto? That would be a waste of resources and a risk since it looked to me they wanted to kill her. And since Raftela came to them and obeyed their orders to the letter it would be better to not piss her off by making a Swiss cheese out of her.

[Super Angillis]

Been thinking about that, and here's another possiblity. The guards just suck at killing Claymores. Remember Raki already stated they suck at fighting. They are mostly used to bullying the trainees. The don't deal with fullblown Claymores. The org sends other Claymores to do that. So it may not have occured to them that the stabbing was something she might get up from. In short, yeah, they are incomptetent, at least at that.

[Goral]

So it may not have occured to them that the stabbing was something she might get up from. In short, yeah, they are incomptetent, at least at that.

I prefer gernot's explanation much more, even though there are several things to question. Your explanation "they're retards" makes Yagi an awful writer.

[Super Angillis]

Actually it's more like their inexperinced at actual fighting. But I was just throwing another theory out their. Gernot's explination does work better, especially the part about needing her to deal with the dead trio.

[zushiko]

Only Audrey has a chance to survive if Deneve and co. would arrived. Rachel and Nina wont probably regenerate their limbs because they are offensive types right? Too bad Nina really pissed off Cassandra.

They would eventually lost because they dont have a surprise attack like Clare back then.

Hysteria is far way too strong for Miria even at her awakened speed step, Hysteria was still able to damage Miria.

[Goral]

Actually it's more like their inexperinced at actual fighting.

No. It has nothing to do with fighting experience. Besides ninjas there were many MiBs in the room who know perfectly well about Claymore capabilities. And in the first place - if these ninjas would not know about it how would MiB expect them to do their job? It's stupid no matter how I look at it.

[Joe7133]

Only Audrey has a chance to survive if Deneve and co. would arrived. Rachel and Nina wont probably regenerate their limbs because they are offensive types right? Too bad Nina really pissed off Cassandra.

They would eventually lost because they dont have a surprise attack like Clare back then.

Hysteria is far way too strong for Miria even at her awakened speed step, Hysteria was still able to damage Miria.

Yeah, Miria trying to go super saiyan and Hysteria haven't even sweat yet. I feel sorry for Miria. I would have thought she'd be as strong as Hysteria since all those year practicing in Pieta.

Anyway, even Deneve group is going to fail because as it stand. Roxanne hasn't even shown her true power. She brushed off Cassandra technique and said it wasn't her style and she didn't need it. That tells you Roxanne is a lot stronger then both of them. Roxanne doesn't need tricks to win. She reminds me of Teresa toying with Priscilla, Irene, Noel, and Sophia.